Poll: manslaughter...

[Abedeus]

Geez, okay. Triple ninja.

It just sounds a bit weird, but I guess it's true. Still, when I hear manslaughter, it reminds me of UT's MANSLAUGHTER!!!.

 

[Altorin]

Ahh wikipedia. Second heading there, spur of the moment

Wikipedia helped me gather my thoughts and clarify some things, but the truth is, I don't think the cop intended to kill the guy, and intent is a huge thing in a homocide case. If you can't prove intent, then murder is not an option.

At most, the cop will probably lose his job.. the family of the victim might sue him.. sort of like OJ Simpson.. not legally responsible (although he totally was), but still was guilty enough to be sued by the goldstiens

 

[Jadak]

Yes. I was leaning towards 'No', but after watching the video, it looks like an unprovoked assault to me. (and by unprovoked, I meant that the police officers themselves did not appear to be under any physical threat from the man).

The guy may have been an idiot who got what was coming to him, but he was just standing there when that cop shoved him to the ground. Clearly killing him wasn't intended, but I say too fucking bad, Cops don't have the right to pull that shit and get away with it anymore than anyone else.

 

[Altorin]

Yes. I was leaning towards 'No', but after watching the video, it looks like an unprovoked assault to me. (and by unprovoked, I meant that the police officers themselves did not appear to be under any physical threat from the man).

The guy may have been an idiot who got what was coming to him, but he was just standing there when that cop shoved him to the ground. Clearly killing him wasn't intended, but I say too fucking bad, Cops don't have the right to pull that shit and get away with it anymore than anyone else.

well, technically, they do

if it were anyone else doing the shoving, the discussion wouldn't even come up. They have the benefit of debate I have enough faith in the system, that the really bad cops will get their come-uppance. I know lots of cops, and they're good people, who do good work, dealing with bad people.

 

[Archemetis]

Death via internal abdominal hemoraging, but the cause is "So far unclear"?

Ok, starters, cop pushes guy onto the ground, guy lands, shock or sudden tensing of the abdominal muscles causes it's own trauma on that region due to the victim having multiple infected organs in that region, then they proceed to batter him to death with their battons...

I think it's fairly clear HOW he died, shit I've probably guessed it right and i'm not even a pathologist.

I mean watching that video, the only thing I can assume is that the first push was completely, without a shadow of a doubt, un-called for.
There was so many other ways they could have dealt with that man (who admittedly looked like he was antagonising the police) But the way he WAS dealt with was barbaric.

 

[DannyBoy451]

I'm pretty sure most of you have heard about the officer who "Killed" a man when he hit him with his baton. And is now being quizzed/charged with manslaughter.

Whats your views?

more info at:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8004222.stm

The case should be treated in the same way as if the policeman was a member of the public. Even though Iain Tomlinson was drunk and harrasing the police it was still an disproportionate use of force.

 

[LockHeart]

It's too late for me to read that, but I'll share my views on cop killing and you can fit it to whatever incident you want.

If the person was clearly in need of a thrashing, and said thrashing wasn't in excess of the amount needed to subdue the perp, then bravo to the cops. Sometimes, people die when they get in scuffles with the police. No need to villify a cop for doing his job.

However, to kill someone with a baton, you basically have to hit them in the neck or head with it. That's not safe, and the cop should have known better.. Cops generally aim for center of mass, or legs or arms - a good hit with a baton will put that limb out of commission. but if the kid was fucking around with a cop, he should have known better.

Tragic, yes, criminal, maybe not.

The article said the man had some liver and heart disease.
He's an idiot though. Walking between the police during protests, probably ignoring them while they told him to go away.

He was walking home from selling newspapers on a stand at a train station. Ignoring the police is not a crime, he was just walking along with his hands in his pockets.

Even if he wanted to leave, which is probably what he did want, he couldn't because the police were 'kettling' the protestors.

It's just the whole attempted whitewash that occurred afterwards - you can tell the Met was squirming:

"Protesters were attacking us as we tried to help a collapsed Protester"

"We found a man suffering from a heart attack"

"We pushed an innocent man who then had a heart attack"

"He died of a heart attack"

"Ok, we hit an innocent man so hard, he died of internal bleeding"

 

[Aardvark Soup]

Completely depends on the situation. When the officer had hit this man as a means of self defense because he was attacked without any intention to kill him I say no. Otherwise, probably, but to say this you would have to know exactly what has happened

 

[beddo]

no, technicly it could be counted as Judicial murder. he killed this man whilst performing his lawful duty, as the law dictates. you know in ye olde days the coppers would arrest the headsman, or hangman or executioner, and take him to a magistrate, where he would be charged with murder, and his deffence was always judicial murder, and he was let off, because he killed in a lawful manner

What? This is not the middle ages, the police are not afforded the right to murder a citizen nor any other person on British soil unless they are a major threat to others and it is the only option.

There is no legally state sanctioned murder in the UK. The police are bound by the law just as everyone else is. This police officer was acting outside of the law and did not do so to enforce the law.

Even if a police officer was enforcing the law, if they did so in an unreasonably violent manner that resulted in a needless death then the charge of manslaughter would likely still apply.

In a recent case a police officer was following a car which had been flagged as stolen. He didn't put his lights on and was driving at 94 mph in a 30 mph zone. He hit and killed a 15 year old girl.

[link]http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/tyne/7990188.stm[/link]

He was found guilty of death by dangerous driving. It is not acceptable to kill someone when trying to enforce the law except for special highly trained squads where no other option is available.

 

[beddo]

Completely depends on the situation. When the officer had hit this man as a means of self defense because he was attacked without any intention to kill him I say no. Otherwise, probably, but to say this you would have to know exactly what has happened

There was no self defence, the police officer attacked the man from behind without provocation. The street he was walking down was largely empty apart from the police being there.

 

[Aardvark Soup]

Completely depends on the situation. When the officer had hit this man as a means of self defense because he was attacked without any intention to kill him I say no. Otherwise, probably, but to say this you would have to know exactly what has happened

There was no self defence, the police officer attacked the man from behind without provocation. The street he was walking down was largely empty apart from the police being there.

If that's true it's certainly manslaughter or maybe even murder.

 

[Snoopster]

first, we don't know what the guy was saying, besides, good people avoid riots,
second, the media victimises the police anyway,
third, how was the cop to know he had a heart conditions
however finally, yeah he probably should've controlled himself better allthough not many people would be able to avoid acting on instinct in a riot

 

[thedelightfulme]

Can i ask an american a question...are the Police in America more brutual than the british, because when i watch those police chase videos like 20 cops will jump on one guy. Or they will throw the guy out of the car.
Its just something i noticed...

 

[Snoopster]

first: we don't know what the guy was saying, besides, good people avoid riots,
second: the media victimises the police anyway,
third: how was the cop to know he had a heart condition
however finally: yeah he probably should've controlled himself better allthough not many people would be able to avoid acting on instinct in a riot

fuck I'm thinking of the wrong one

 

[Arcticflame]

It doesn't matter what the guy was saying, why do people keep asking that?

The guy could have said anything at all. The copper should have at most, tackled him and cuffed him. Nothing more than that.

Yes. He should be charged. (Based upon the evidence presented to me, of which there isn't much).

 

[Altorin]

Can i ask an american a question...are the Police in America more brutual than the british, because when i watch those police chase videos like 20 cops will jump on one guy. Or they will throw the guy out of the car.
Its just something i noticed...

Police in the states don't fuck around. They chase you for 2 hours in a perilous chase, at the end of it you're standing cocksure and defiant, they're going to use all the force they can to bring you down. If you ignore them when they ask you for information, they'll take it from you, or they'll take you.

You do have rights though, and if they don't follow protocol, they'll either get in trouble, or you'll go free. I don't know if they're more brutal then in the UK, but all the cops I've ever met were great people, who have serious jobs. Jobs where their life can be ended in a heartbeat by the simplest little thing.. pull someone over that stole the car, they may just kill you and make a break for it.

Shit happens.. cops have to be diligent.

It's not a license to kill or even injure, but they need to protect themselves, and everyone around them.. never know when the perp might have a gun, if they seem dangerous treat them as dangerous, even if you have to rough them up to bring them in.

The only thing that pisses me off is when cops already have a suspect subdued and they hurt them.. guy got shot by a cop while he was on the ground, subdued by other officers a little while back.. turned my blood cold and I spit fire over it.

 

[Knight Templar]

first, we don't know what the guy was saying, besides, good people avoid riots,
second, the media victimises the police anyway,
third, how was the cop to know he had a heart conditions
however finally, yeah he probably should've controlled himself better allthough not many people would be able to avoid acting on instinct in a riot

The guys heart coindition is unimportant as it did not affect his death.

A cop deciding to needlessly attack him from behind then walk away, when the riot isn't nearby is not something you can forgive.

If he lost it he should lose his job.
If he thought he was doing something needed or helpful he doesn't understand his job.

 

[thedelightfulme]

Can i ask an american a question...are the Police in America more brutual than the british, because when i watch those police chase videos like 20 cops will jump on one guy. Or they will throw the guy out of the car.
Its just something i noticed...

Police in the states don't fuck around. They chase you for 2 hours in a perilous chase, at the end of it you're standing cocksure and defiant, they're going to use all the force they can to bring you down. If you ignore them when they ask you for information, they'll take it from you, or they'll take you.

You do have rights though, and if they don't follow protocol, they'll either get in trouble, or you'll go free. I don't know if they're more brutal then in the UK, but all the cops I've ever met were great people, who have serious jobs. Jobs where their life can be ended in a heartbeat by the simplest little thing.. pull someone over that stole the car, they may just kill you and make a break for it.

Shit happens.. cops have to be diligent.

It's not a license to kill or even injure, but they need to protect themselves, and everyone around them.. never know when the perp might have a gun, if they seem dangerous treat them as dangerous, even if you have to rough them up to bring them in.

The only thing that pisses me off is when cops already have a suspect subdued and they hurt them.. guy got shot by a cop while he was on the ground, subdued by other officers a little while back.. turned my blood cold and I spit fire over it.

I wasnt cop bashing if thats the impression you got. I think the police do a great job. i started this thread because im not too sure on the facts, and it looks like some of it is being supressed. So either the press are trying to make the police look bad (bad news sells better than good) OR the police dont want the rest out.

 

[Altorin]

I wasnt cop bashing if thats the impression you got. I think the police do a great job. i started this thread because im not too sure on the facts, and it looks like some of it is being supressed. So either the press are trying to make the police look bad (bad news sells better than good) OR the police dont want the rest out.

I just watched The Dark Knight again, so I'll make a reference here that might make sense.

The joker tells Harvey Dent "no-one cares when things go according to plan.. If I were to say that a gangbanger would die, or that 10 soldiers would be killed, noone would bat an eye.. but if I say that one little mayor is going to be killed and everyone freaks out!!"

It's the same sort of deal but backwards.. Noone cares when police do good. It's not good news, it's not even news. Pretty much the only news associated with cops, is bad news. When they go against the "plan".

On the whole, I think you get a little too much of your view of the police by watching the news.. and if that's the case, then you're definitely going to have a serious anti-police bias that I would suggest you rectify. Cops are perfectly reasonable if you don't have an anti-police bias.. then you make their job harder, and when their job is harder, they need to push a little harder to keep order.

Should he be charged with manslaughter? I say to you, OP, that he probably shouldn't be. But he probably shouldn't be a police officer... If he's really not a bad guy, he can find a way to use his training to help people, but being a police officer carries with it a certain obligation to follow the plan and be a good upstanding member of society. He can lose his job, and get another one, protecting people if that's his life's calling, with a little less responsibility on his shoulders.

 

[cuddly_tomato]

If that's the case, the cop should burn.

This is the case:- The guy was walking away from the cop. The cop approached him from behind and shoved him to the ground. The man later died of abdominal bleeding, nothing to do with his heart condition. The shove to the ground is what killed him.