Poll: ME3 EC didn't fix anything

[LetalisK]

My opinion from the other ME3 thread I commented in(can mods merge these threads?)

Yeah, I'm good with this. My main problem with the original endings is that they didn't seem graphically different enough, but this is fine now. I rate the endings now as decent. The Refusal Ending gets a special (+funny) because it's basically a colossal "FUCK YOU!" to those that complained about not having more options, specifically an option involving Shepard having blue alien babies or something like that.
However, I still think Indoctrination Theory is still a vastly more interesting "ending".

 

[Vegosiux]

The Refusal Ending gets a special (+funny) because it's basically a colossal "FUCK YOU!" to those that complained about not having more options, specifically an option involving Shepard having blue alien babies or something like that.

Well that option does two things. One, it lets you finish the fight on your terms, even if you lose. Two...in conjunction with "Miracle of Palaven", it proves how full of shit the entire Crucible thing was from the get-go even in-universe.

 

[LetalisK]

The Refusal Ending gets a special (+funny) because it's basically a colossal "FUCK YOU!" to those that complained about not having more options, specifically an option involving Shepard having blue alien babies or something like that.

Well that option does two things. One, it lets you finish the fight on your terms, even if you lose. Two...in conjunction with "Miracle of Palaven", it proves how full of shit the entire Crucible thing was from the get-go even in-universe.

How's that? Miracle of Palaven says nothing about their strategy being effective long-term and the Refusal Ending explicitly shows schematics for the Crucible, so its by no means inconceivable that the next cycle used the Crucible to deal with the Reapers.

 

[gmaverick019_v1legacy]

When LOST finished with a lousy ending, I didn't feel as if it ruined the show for me...

Really? I know I did.

God, that was a shit ending.

truth.

another problem with this? I didn't spend fucking 160+ dollars on lost like i did on the mass effect series, that is the problem i had with it, not to mention the interactive story where the choices you made were SUPPOSED to matter.

OT: bleh watched the endings, they are still shite beyond belief, they would have had to redo the last hour or so for it to actually become something other than a big fat turd, they just added a few sprinkles and rolled the turd over, it's still a shit ending.

 

[Vegosiux]

The Refusal Ending gets a special (+funny) because it's basically a colossal "FUCK YOU!" to those that complained about not having more options, specifically an option involving Shepard having blue alien babies or something like that.

Well that option does two things. One, it lets you finish the fight on your terms, even if you lose. Two...in conjunction with "Miracle of Palaven", it proves how full of shit the entire Crucible thing was from the get-go even in-universe.

How's that? Miracle of Palaven says nothing about their strategy being effective long-term and the Refusal Ending explicitly shows schematics for the Crucible, so its by no means inconceivable that the next cycle used the Crucible to deal with the Reapers.

The post above me (I mean, the post above this very one) sums it up nicely, in a way. The Miracle proved that locally, decisive victories against Reapers are possible, and Reapers don't have infinite resources either. Investing your more assets into actual firepower and tactical plans just makes more bloody sense than pushing your hopes entirely onto a McGuffin weapon you don't even know will work, and only keeping enough firepower around to act as cannon fodder until you spin the reels.

You didn't have to have a decisive "conventional" victory over the Reapers as an option. But some kind of a possible victory, even a phyrric one if you throw enough at them in your last stand should at least have been considered.

 

[Souplex]

I do like that they added a "Go fuck yourself in your glowing underage space ass" option on top of the colored space magic.

 

[AbstractStream]

Well...at least it's not terrible anymore. Still don't feel satisfied with it(wasn't expecting to either), but oh well. At least the Krogan are good. This time around though, picking the Destroy option did make me feel a bit guilty since it flashed EDI's face real quick instead of Joker. Wasn't expecting that.

The detail I did like that was added in was

Spoiler

showing Adm. Anderson's name on the Normandy's wall and your LI holding Shepard's name.

...but then wait. Why is the breathing scene still there?!

As much as I want to, I can't forget the original ending. *sigh* I'm off to watch the 'new' Control and Synthesis endings. The refusal ending was just a laugh xD

 

[gaiusimperator]

I liked it. It was certainly more meaty than the Baldur's Gate ending. It made me happy to watch, and it really made the Sci-Fi ending even cooler and made it make more sense, so I'm happy.

 

[Seanfall]

I'm kind of scared that the story of the game matters so much to you people.

When LOST finished with a lousy ending, I didn't feel as if it ruined the show for me, nor did I go demanding a different ending, though I suppose I didn't pay for it either.

I'm reluctant to ever get the Mass Effect games because, I dunno, I keep getting the vibe from people that the story is what matters most in it, and that to me, is a bad sign.

....I'm sorry..but...that statement is stupid. Not you I can't read CAN'T call YOU stupid. I'll get in trouble. But your statement yeah...that's stupid. Your worried that people and games are supposed to have stories that matter? Really? Well fine don't Pick up Mass Effect, don't pick up any RPG's stick to whatever you play now cause something with a cohesive storyline might set your head on fire.

Note however that the last 10-15 minutes of ME3 is nothing like a Cohesive Storyline.

 

[Risingblade]

They EC was all right though it kinda proved that Bioware just halfassed the ending.

 

[zehydra]

I'm kind of scared that the story of the game matters so much to you people.

When LOST finished with a lousy ending, I didn't feel as if it ruined the show for me, nor did I go demanding a different ending, though I suppose I didn't pay for it either.

I'm reluctant to ever get the Mass Effect games because, I dunno, I keep getting the vibe from people that the story is what matters most in it, and that to me, is a bad sign.

....I'm sorry..but...that statement is stupid. Not you I can't read CAN'T call YOU stupid. I'll get in trouble. But your statement yeah...that's stupid. Your worried that people and games are supposed to have stories that matter? Really? Well fine don't Pick up Mass Effect, don't pick up any RPG's stick to whatever you play now cause something with a cohesive storyline might set your head on fire.

Note however that the last 10-15 minutes of ME3 is nothing like a Cohesive Storyline.

I like good stories, sure. But I just don't think they're that essential to a good game. World design and art design is far more important in my book. Character design is also important, but not necessarily with an overall story in mind. I'd much rather play a game like Minecraft.

 

[LetalisK]

The Refusal Ending gets a special (+funny) because it's basically a colossal "FUCK YOU!" to those that complained about not having more options, specifically an option involving Shepard having blue alien babies or something like that.

Well that option does two things. One, it lets you finish the fight on your terms, even if you lose. Two...in conjunction with "Miracle of Palaven", it proves how full of shit the entire Crucible thing was from the get-go even in-universe.

How's that? Miracle of Palaven says nothing about their strategy being effective long-term and the Refusal Ending explicitly shows schematics for the Crucible, so its by no means inconceivable that the next cycle used the Crucible to deal with the Reapers.

The post above me (I mean, the post above this very one) sums it up nicely, in a way. The Miracle proved that locally, decisive victories against Reapers are possible, and Reapers don't have infinite resources either. Investing your more assets into actual firepower and tactical plans just makes more bloody sense than pushing your hopes entirely onto a McGuffin weapon you don't even know will work, and only keeping enough firepower around to act as cannon fodder until you spin the reels.

You didn't have to have a decisive "conventional" victory over the Reapers as an option. But some kind of a possible victory, even a phyrric one if you throw enough at them in your last stand should at least have been considered.

I think Bioware may have written themselves into a corner with that one. The entire time they portrayed Reapers as completely unstoppable and any victories against them are merely delaying the inevitable and reinforced this with the batarians, the subversiveness of indoctrination, the various fleets getting slaughtered seemingly on a whim, Hackett's progress reports, the fate of the Protheans and all the cycles that came before, etc. They basically made it impossible to defeat them with anything other than a magic Mcguffan without leaving an even larger plot hole in its wake.

The more I think about it, the more I believe they should have gone with some sort of conventional victory(or at least an initial one), but they just didn't take the time to lay the groundwork for something like that and even worked against it in this last game. It was basically all invested in the McGuffan, even for Bioware.

Ironically, one of the few, probably unintentional, small sparks in the story that conventional means might actually work is the multiplayer, as the single player game references it and talks about how effective the mercenary strike teams are.

 

[Seanfall]

I'm kind of scared that the story of the game matters so much to you people.

When LOST finished with a lousy ending, I didn't feel as if it ruined the show for me, nor did I go demanding a different ending, though I suppose I didn't pay for it either.

I'm reluctant to ever get the Mass Effect games because, I dunno, I keep getting the vibe from people that the story is what matters most in it, and that to me, is a bad sign.

....I'm sorry..but...that statement is stupid. Not you I can't read CAN'T call YOU stupid. I'll get in trouble. But your statement yeah...that's stupid. Your worried that people and games are supposed to have stories that matter? Really? Well fine don't Pick up Mass Effect, don't pick up any RPG's stick to whatever you play now cause something with a cohesive storyline might set your head on fire.

Note however that the last 10-15 minutes of ME3 is nothing like a Cohesive Storyline.

I like good stories, sure. But I just don't think they're that essential to a good game. World design and art design is far more important in my book. Character design is also important, but not necessarily with an overall story in mind. I'd much rather play a game like Minecraft.

....Okay I want to apologize for how...angry that post seemed as you replied with a calm thoughtful reply and I didn't. So sorry bout that.

 

[Westaway]

I didn't play ME. I hadn't seen the ending until today.

The normal ending was indeed as bad as it was made out to be.

The funny thing is, though, the extended cuts change nothing.

Synthesis: we rebuilt

Control: we rebuilt

Destruction: we rebuilt

Nothing: we did not rebuild

...are you kidding me?

I'd be pissed if I still like Bioware (the last game I enjoyed was Baldur's Gate)

 

[lumenadducere]

The existence of space magic and the ridiculously fallacious logic of Starbrat makes the EC still fail, but it's better than what the original ending was in the first place. Some people got the more obvious questions answered, although that stuff wasn't too hard to figure out. It's the bigger issues that show up from the whole end part on the Citadel that were truly problematic, and there's no way that "clarification" would fix that.

One thing that I find interesting is that if you do the "Refusal" ending then Starbrat speaks in a different, distinctly Reaper-esque tone. Makes you wonder, although I'm sure that is what they were going for.

 

[Elamdri]

Why did Sovereign need Saren to fix the Citadel signal if starchild was always there?

The refusal ending strongly implies that the Starchild is in fact Harbinger. Perhaps the Starchild only exists when Harbinger is in close proximity. Or perhaps the Starchild simply is a part of Harbinger that doesn't have full control over the Citadel. He says so much in that he is incapable of making the decisions for you at the end.

How did the protheans manage to sabotage the Citadel if the starchild has the ability to get into your head? Should we simply assume that a bunch of protheans were able to do all that and there was nothing the starchild could have done to stop them? We shouldn't assume that, because most people know by now what the original plot was supposed to be. And there was never any starchild in it.

There's nothing WRONG in assuming that the Starchild simply didn't have the power to stop them. It's clearly not the "Caretaker" of the citadel. I have a feeling that it is just a result of Harbinger interfacing with the Citadel.

Who created the starchild? Organics? Then why doesn't he simply protect the organics against the synthetics? Why don't the Reapers simply destroy the synthetics? Why are they waiting in dark space? Wouldn't it be easier for them to just roam around the galaxy making sure we don't create A.I.? Seems like an easier solution. And a more logical one. What if synthetics created the Catalyst? That's even dumber. Synthetics created an A.I in order to protect the organics against the synthetics by killing organics.

Synthetics didn't create the Catalyst. Organics did. He tells you that he was originally created to stop the conflict between Synthetic and Organics. He tells you that his first solution failed, so he came up with the Reapers. He even says that his Creators were his first victims and that they were "unhappy" with his solution. The reason that he doesn't just go around killing Synthetic life is that it is also LIFE and has just as much right to exist as organic life.

He tells you that his solution is to harvest all advanced Organic and Synthetic life in the galaxy and preserve them, their memories and collective intelligence in a new Reaper. That way the old races transcend into a Reaper and give way for new races to emerge.

What about the Crucible? It's still space magic. It still doesn't make any god damn sense.

So is the Force. Hell, the Force didn't become stupid until George Lucas tried to make it "Make sense." Sometimes Sci-Fi just needs to have it's Space Magic and we need to accept that it's just not gonna make sense.

Can't you see? As long as the starchild exists, the entire plot of Mass Effect makes no sense. And it's not like Bioware didn't have the easy way out. Jesus fuckin' Christ what a mess.

The poll is broken for some reason. Third option should say "I don't care anymore"

I can easily make sense enough out of it. I don't think it's a particularly good option, but to say that it doesn't make sense requires a lot of inferences designed to create a scenario where it doesn't make sense. The problem being that it's just as easy to create inferences where it does make sense.

 

[Gennadios]

I'm in the middle of a replay for the ending, few loose ends I missed in the original playthrough and this is the first I've seen of refusal. Does your Galactic Readiness/War asset rating actually effect the extinction in the refusal ending?

 

[Joccaren]

I'm of two minds about it.

It "Fixes" the current endings enough, adding extended dialogue about synthesis and destroy and control, it also adds in the much needed now my canon 4th option. In all endings it now provides closure, and gives some sense of what's going on. It has done probably the best it could to fix the whole Crucible section of the ending, whilst keeping Bioware's vision intact.

However, do I like it? No.
As you pointed out, its still the same crap as before, but now it comes down to personal taste more than just "WTF is this?".

-No additional war assets are shown in action. Major letdown.
-The options are still rather bleh, and they're still really trying to push the whole synthesis angle.
-The "Reject" option is obviously the weakest done option, with the least effort put in. Before someone says "You just want a conventional victory" - point 1 and this one could be fixed together: Show our war assets fighting to the death.
-EMS still means bugger all in the grand scheme of things. Once you hit 2-3K, there's still no reason for you to try to get more. This could be fixed by a conventional victory possibility at 7K+ EMS [Yes, I had to throw it in somewhere].
-The game on the whole still has a lot of flaws.

Its a decent effort, and I have forgiven them to an extent. They are a "Read up on full plot before purchase" company now, however, and checking videos of gameplay, as their most recent games have done nothing but disappoint me, and I'm not thinking they're going to change that habit.

 

[Joccaren]

I'm in the middle of a replay for the ending, few loose ends I missed in the original playthrough and this is the first I've seen of refusal. Does your Galactic Readiness/War asset rating actually effect the extinction in the refusal ending?

No. It has been tested at 7-8K EMS - pretty much the highest you can get - and you still fail completely. There is nothing more to it then what is presented there.
IMO, still the best ending.

 

[008Zulu_v1legacy]

I think we may be giving Bioware too much credit. Writing the quintessential happy ending is not where their strengths lay. They (Bio) don't think along the lines of; Kill the Dragon, save the Princess and live happily ever after.

We the players were expecting a happy ending, but we expected something that history has proven they can't do.