Poll: ME3 EC didn't fix anything

easternflame

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Nov 2, 2010
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I think it's basically the same HOWEVER, I found more satisfaction. I will say, it's still stupid when the Normandy leaves, they would stay but I'm glad Bioware stuck to their guns.
We people are hipocrytes, LUCAS CHANGED STAR WARS!? HOW DARE HE? (Because the changes were greed oriented and sucked, apart from the artistic repercussions but I guess that goes without saying) and then we're all like That sucks man! Bioware fix the endings! "Retake Mass Effect".

I don't like bioware anymore, not because of the endings, I guess anyone can fuck that up, but they've sold themselves and no one can argue that ME3 development was a chain of embarassing news up to the end with the crappy ending.
 

Khazoth

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Honestly I played through Mass Effect 3 once. I'm not gonna do so again just to see a slideshow. I appreciate the effort but the damage is unrepairable.

All I needed to know about the changes was that if you shoot the god child you get a crap ending that amounts to Bioware singing you the trolololo song. I can imagine the amount of people who realize this ending exsists accidentally, and then have to play through that long ending sequence again.


Or maybe they won't play through it again, realize that Bioware hates them, and throw their copy out the nearest window.


Edit: I'd play through again if they added the trolololo song, at least it'd be an honest addition.
 

anthony87

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easternflame said:
I think it's basically the same HOWEVER, I found more satisfaction. I will say, it's still stupid when the Normandy leaves, they would stay but I'm glad Bioware stuck to their guns.
We people are hipocrytes, LUCAS CHANGED STAR WARS!? HOW DARE HE? (Because the changes were greed oriented and sucked, apart from the artistic repercussions but I guess that goes without saying) and then we're all like That sucks man! Bioware fix the endings! "Retake Mass Effect".

I don't like bioware anymore, not because of the endings, I guess anyone can fuck that up, but they've sold themselves and no one can argue that ME3 development was a chain of embarassing news up to the end with the crappy ending.
I'd hardly call it hypocritical. Star Wars was fine the way it was. All the changes that Lucas added were basically nothing but shiny bells and whistles that added nothing to the overall experience whereas the ending to Mass Effect 3 was shit, sloppy, rushed and riddled with so many plotholes that it needed a fix.
 

Antonio Torrente

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Feb 19, 2010
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Some people don't care anymore, the damage has been done and for me Bioware has lost a huge chunk of respect from its fans and they are now waiting for it to die just like Bullfrog and Westwood.

Now if they only used the EC as the original endings, I'm pretty sure it won't blow as much as the original ones.
 

LetalisK

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Adam Jensen said:
I have no problem with sacrifice. I don't have a problem with Shepard dying, or his friends dying (if it's done right) as long as I can win without having to accept faulty logic as absolute truth. That's what bothers me. Accepting something that makes no freakin' sense. Sure, we should lose if we don't have enough EMS and choose refusal. But having the option to win if you have enough EMS would actually make EMS matter. Which would fix another Bioware mistake. I shouldn't be forced to lose the game after acquiring all those war assets just because I can actually see how nonsensical presented options are.
So if EMS was removed, you'd be fine?
Edit: Or rather, does EMS really matter to you at all? Or would you be happy if there was zero meter but you could win conventionally?

Edit2: If you find the endings nonsense, why does that means the alternative should be a conventional victory? What about endings that didn't have any conventional victory, but rather explained the current endings sensibly? Or completely different endings that had nothing to do with a conventional victory?
 

alimarin

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Jun 4, 2009
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To be honest, I just think that the Mass Effect 3 endings... Didn't fit into the lore, at least not for me. The whole god child AI / energy being creating the Reapers as a way to keep the Synthetics from destroying the organics forever, and instead only annihilating the advanced ones capable of creating the AIs just made me grind my teeth. Even though it made sense, that doesn't mean it's a whole lot more plausible and acceptable than that of an entire ancient species rather than a deity-like being creating the Reapers, and through an accidental conception of their sentience, in the stead of purposeful design by said 'god'.

Not to mention the Indoctrination Theory has a lot more subtlety to detail and the supposed hints and signs that only the player can recognize as indoctrination would have been a mind blowing troll on people playing through that end sequence, only to find out that the whole thing was a 'dream' intended to acquire Shepard's mind, and that choosing Synthesis or Control as an ending ends up with you waking up indoctrinated and under Reaper control, killing your allies and bringing Earth to its knees... And ultimately destroying all that he had worked so hard to achieve because of players failing to notice the signs that Shepard was being bombarded by attempts to indoctrinate him.

I also don't like the fact that choosing the new 4th ending means you lose no matter what, and that hoping the battle assets you built up would be enough to at its least, stop the Reaper threat from destroying the galaxy, if not Earth... Also were useless.

Long story short, I would like the effects of all the choices you made throughout the game and the trilogy as a whole effect whether or not you can destroy the Reapers, not that the last choice is up to Shepard, but that all of the past choices he has made will effect the overall resolution as well as the minute details. It should have shown that Shepard is just a man, and that he alone cannot decide the fate of the galaxy, that his mustering of the galaxy and uniting its occupants to the point where it is enough to combat that threat, because it shouldn't be up to Shepard choosing the way the Crucible is used to decide how he wins, but that the only way he can win is with others, and A LOT of others.

Also, I disliked that they made the Reapers... 'Humanized' in the sense that committing genocide on them through the Destroy ending would be a lesser alternative than Control or Synthesis, even if they did that exact thing for countless cycles and coupled with the way they indoctrinate people, just goes to show how willing they are to convince and lie to the minds of the organic beings that there is another choice than fighting with them, and that looking for a peaceful solution is possible all the while they slaughter all of them indiscriminately.

As an example of their trickery, Sovereign indoctrinated Saren by making him believe that he can do the equivalent of the Synthesis choice, which is combining organics and synthetics into a new cyborg-like species. Which was a complete lie used to manipulate his political stance as a Spectre, above the law, to wreak havoc on the organics even before the Reapers come back from dark space.

Basically all I wanted is the Reapers to have remained an ultimate evil, and the peaceful coexistence they were offering is just a ruse meant to fool people into believing them, and then become indoctrinated.

... Bioware, I am disappointed that you could not have made the ending better.
 

noble cookie

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Aug 6, 2010
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Just thought I'd say, this whole thing reminds me of that film about the crazy lady who kidnaps a famous author and then threatens the author if he doesn't change the book to go along with how she wants it (name escapes me).

Basically, yes you are a fan but that doesn't mean you get to decide what happens with the story of something you had nothing to do with making. Be it a game, book or film. The people who put time and effort decide what happens, not you. You agree that it's not exactly how you wanted it to go, but you accept it as how it was meant to end. Just because you didn't like it doesn't mean you get to make changes and alter the story to how you see fit.

And now, people still ***** and moan even though they changed it for you because you wouldn't stop going on about it.

(I guess I might get hate about this but this is my honest opinion)
 

electric method

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Jul 20, 2010
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I won't deny there is some emotional satisfaction from the EC. It does provide the "closure" needed to wrap stuff up from an emotional level. That, however, doesn't mean that the ending(s) to the ME series still don't suck, cuz they absolutely still do suck. They just suck a bit less now.

The circular loop logic, starbrat and lack of any previous choice mattering is still there. All BW did was to expand on what was there originally filling some of the more obnoxious character centric plot problems and added more depth to who/what starbrat is. More insight into why the starchild chose the option(s) it did is acceptable. It doesn't make the logic, nor the choices any less repugnant.

That the EC shows the starchild was the original creation that turned on it's creators, turned them into a reaper then set about commiting genocide doesn't make it a tragic figure. It makes it more ridiculous. It undermines one of the central concepts of the game series: self-determination. Just because the starbrat could not conceive of another way does not mean one does not exsist.

The options offered by the starchild are all grating because they go against what the player has done for 3 games and the game has established with it's story. Control, one of the major themes of part of ME2 and all of ME3, is shown to be a no go because everyone that tries to do so ends up being all indoctrinafied. Look at how messed up TIM became. That we are offered that as an option right after arguing with TIM how wrong it is, is just insulting. What, we just change our minds and it's ok now cuz some AI that went all Solient Green on his creators(Reapers are People! People!) says it's cool? I think not.

Synthesis, what Saren et al promoted through out the whole first game, that we as players fought against the entire first game that's offered up too. Choosing this, again, invalidates the right to self determine AND invalidates all previous actions taken in the series. Not to mention that it is you, the player as shep, forcing this option down the throats of the entire galaxy. No question, no debate..(just like what the starchild did to his creators only the other end of the spectrum) just hello glowy green zombies and all is well. No war, no hate no more synthetics murdering organics so they can't make synthetics that will murder organics.

Destruction for sure kills the Reapers, BUT it comes with a price the starbrat attaches to it. Ok, so ya wanna kill us, well ya gotta kill all your synthetics too. Thanks for playing let's make a deal. This is especially irritating if you've spent the game series arguing for unification between the geth/quarians and achieve it. It's a "nope sorry, all you did to end this conflict is a moot point.

The Reject ending is a slap in the face. It's like ok, you go out on your terms. This cycle dies and wait.... the next cycle uses the crucible to defeat the reapers. Wait, what? Then what the hell is the point of a series that is about self determination? That all life is valuable? That strength through diversity and co-operation and unity despite that diversity is possible? It's just repellant and obnoxious that the choices offered don't matter what so ever.
 

kuolonen

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electric method said:
By the above I mean this, The Starchild's statement that eventually a organic species will create a synthetic species that will destroy all organic life everywhere is a logical fallacy. The Starbrat, while old, is NOT a god. Ergo, he cannot know this will be the outcome. Why? Because it has NEVER happened. He, and his minions, have not allowed it to. Because of that one simple fact the Starchild cannot say with any degree of certainity his ascertation will occur because has no proof that his opinion and logic are correct. All he has is an opinion/logic based on a faulty premise that has never once been demonstrably proven. Shep on the other hand can prove (if certain choices were made) that Synthetics and Organics can get along.
Starbrats insane troll logic aside, I think you missed that part of EC where you could question his reason for coming to this final solution. He explains that his creators made him to bring peace between organics and bios. These attempts "always ended in conflict" and after that, he made reapers. So no its not just his logic or opinion its an established fact after events. Just because by the miracle of space Jesus Shepard Quarians and Geth got along, that does not mean its an eternal norm now. Hell, that peace is not even a year old yet and for now its holding because they have common enemy.

Also I think Sarens plans were just part of Sovereigns mind games to keep him in leash. Same with TIM. If Reapers would have had their way, cycle would have just keeped on repeating, there would not have been a galactic peace, or rebuilding efforts. As in synthesis and control endings. I really dont get why reaper tech is seen so satanical that it would be by its very nature evulz. Its tech perfected to its function. Nothing more.
 

Adam Jensen_v1legacy

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Sep 8, 2011
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kuolonen said:
Starbrats insane troll logic aside, I think you missed that part of EC where you could question his reason for coming to this final solution. He explains that his creators made him to bring peace between organics and bios. These attempts "always ended in conflict" and after that, he made reapers. So no its not just his logic or opinion its an established fact after events.
His reasoning is that the creators will always rebel against the created and that synthetics will kill all organics. Which never happened. NOT ONCE. Can you understand that? SYNTHETICS NEVER KILLED ALL ORGANICS. Which makes his conclusion about the whole idea just a wild speculation. He simply can't know what will happen.
kuolonen said:
Just because by the miracle of space Jesus Shepard Quarians and Geth got along, that does not mean its an eternal norm now.
It doesn't mean that his opinion is a norm either. That's what makes his entire existence pointless. It is based on a logical fallacy.

And seriously, an organic race thought that the best idea is to create an A.I. in order to resolve their conflict with another A.I.??? And no one has a problem with that? Who in their right mind would do such a thing? The more you think about it, the more apparent it is that it takes a complete idiot to put something like The Catalyst in the last 10 minutes of the game. Revealing who created The Catalyst and why, makes the ending even dumber than it was. It makes even less sense now when you really think about it. That is a plot hole of epic proportions. It's even bigger than the ones that existed before the EC.

How can people not see this? I am not a fuckin' genius. I know that much. These are elementary things. It's all so obvious.

kuolonen said:
Hell, that peace is not even a year old yet and for now its holding because they have common enemy.
The geth never wanted to fight. They are like robotic stoners. They don't give a fuck. Quarians attacked them.
 

electric method

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kuolonen said:
electric method said:
By the above I mean this, The Starchild's statement that eventually a organic species will create a synthetic species that will destroy all organic life everywhere is a logical fallacy. The Starbrat, while old, is NOT a god. Ergo, he cannot know this will be the outcome. Why? Because it has NEVER happened. He, and his minions, have not allowed it to. Because of that one simple fact the Starchild cannot say with any degree of certainity his ascertation will occur because has no proof that his opinion and logic are correct. All he has is an opinion/logic based on a faulty premise that has never once been demonstrably proven. Shep on the other hand can prove (if certain choices were made) that Synthetics and Organics can get along.
Starbrats insane troll logic aside, I think you missed that part of EC where you could question his reason for coming to this final solution. He explains that his creators made him to bring peace between organics and bios. These attempts "always ended in conflict" and after that, he made reapers. So no its not just his logic or opinion its an established fact after events. Just because by the miracle of space Jesus Shepard Quarians and Geth got along, that does not mean its an eternal norm now. Hell, that peace is not even a year old yet and for now its holding because they have common enemy.

Also I think Sarens plans were just part of Sovereigns mind games to keep him in leash. Same with TIM. If Reapers would have had their way, cycle would have just keeped on repeating, there would not have been a galactic peace, or rebuilding efforts. As in synthesis and control endings. I really dont get why reaper tech is seen so satanical that it would be by its very nature evulz. Its tech perfected to its function. Nothing more.

It's not so much that I missed it, but more a matter of I disregarded it. Why? Well, from the established lore in the story the only time, that we the players are made aware of AI's getting all uppity, is in the span of the ME Trilogy. Those AI's getting uppity are the result of Reaper interference and conditioning to make them do so.( With the exception of what's revealed in "from ashes". Those events are not really explained.) So with that bit of info in mind I took his statement in context with the story. It honestly begs the question of what did he (starbrat) try before the first a-reapening?

Was it that he incited the AI's of his time to riot? Did he instigate the organics to keep the war going? In the context of the story all he/the repears have done has been to incite war, never solving it. Without context of what he actually did to end the conflict all we can logically deduce is he did what the reapers have done during what we've been shown. Ergo, the lil horror is not to be trusted.

The other problem is that his reasoning for the "reapening" of his creators, and subsequent cycles, is faulty. It's quite honestly a self-fulfilling prophecy. He creates the need for the reapers by making the reapers. It's insano logic at it's core. The biggest problem with the endings is that bloody starbrat. There is not enough context, nor reason for him to influence the plot as he does.
 

kuolonen

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Adam Jensen said:
They never killed, but they did rebel. Always. If Starchild (+ his creators?) had not stopped them they might have followed through with it. And it only needs to happen once.

Of course He could have let free market do its business at least once, and if the synthetics had killed all organics, cleaned them off the map and waited for whatever is creeping around in the primordial sludge to go for a new beginning and resume cycles, but I then I never claimed he was perfect. Theres also the fact that a united galaxy of synthetics might be too much even for reapers to fight. Geth super dreadnought for example would not have been financially viable with other races what with workers wanting overtime pay, miners pay for digging ore, etc. Now synthetics who think they are threatened could just keep churning out troops and firepower until galaxy is void of resources.

Also remember heretics? Reason current geth are stoners is because Shepard killed/brainwashed the "peace through extermination of organics" -faction. And the said faction was close to releasing a virus to main geth that would have given them the blood lust as well. Bonus points for the fact that while the geth did not start the war, they were not back then true AIs. They are now. Whether or not geth with true AI are warlike or stoners remains to be seen, I am reserving judgement and firepower as ControlGuardian Shepard. If everything goes against Starcilds predictions all swell. If not, reap on ye fucking reapers.

PS: Using caps lock does not give a good impression of you.
 
Dec 3, 2011
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The extended cut just expands upon a fundamentally flawed ending. It's like polishing a turd.

The final 15 minutes of Deus Ex Machina are a complete disconnect from the preceding 100 hours, and from a structural perspective, it's a failure.

Not to mention the half-baked philosophical bullshit through which BioWare try to imitate Arthur C. Clarke, even if it is wildly out of place in the Mass Effect universe.
 
Dec 3, 2011
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itchcrotch said:
for me, the actual plot of the ending was never the problem. it was underwhelming as hell, yeah, but isn't everything these days?
no my problem was just the execution, the design aspect of it all. brevity of the climax in its entirity, and the fact that it was in dusty wartorn city streets.... not the best way to wrap up a game that has shown us many fantastical sci fi settings throughout...
the lack of difference in ending, and what difference there was was way the hell too ternary.
lack of meaningful impact of choices made throughout the game and the series.
and of course, plot holes.
even if they wanted to keep their original ending plot, none of these design flaws could have been fixed without a complete overhaul of the climax in its entirity, and that wasn't what we were getting.
yeah, it didn't fix shit but... i wasn't really expecting it too. my wounds already healed. the scars are still there, as a reminder, and hopefully as a lesson to bioware, but they're healed.
exactly - the final fight in London had this dreary feel to it that felt... odd
 

Adam Jensen_v1legacy

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Sep 8, 2011
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kuolonen said:
Adam Jensen said:
They never killed, but they did rebel. Always. If Starchild (+ his creators?) had not stopped them they might have followed through with it. And it only needs to happen once.
No they didn't rebel always. No one can know that. Starchild can only know about the ones that rebelled in the first cycle when he was created. The geth didn't rebel. They fought in self defense. And they stopped perusing quarians once they drove them off the planet. Because they don't need conflict.

kuolonen said:
Also remember heretics?
Yeah, I remember the heretics. But apparently you don't. The only reason they were heretics is because of the reapers. No reapers - no heretics. The reapers are directly responsible for violent geth uprising.
 

kuolonen

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Nov 19, 2009
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electric method said:
It's not so much that I missed it, but more a matter of I disregarded it. Why? Well, from the established lore in the story the only time, that we the players are made aware of AI's getting all uppity, is in the span of the ME Trilogy. Those AI's getting uppity are the result of Reaper interference and conditioning to make them do so.( With the exception of what's revealed in "from ashes". Those events are not really explained.) So with that bit of info in mind I took his statement in context with the story. It honestly begs the question of what did he (starbrat) try before the first a-reapening?

Was it that he incited the AI's of his time to riot? Did he instigate the organics to keep the war going? In the context of the story all he/the repears have done has been to incite war, never solving it. Without context of what he actually did to end the conflict all we can logically deduce is he did what the reapers have done during what we've been shown. Ergo, the lil horror is not to be trusted.

The other problem is that his reasoning for the "reapening" of his creators, and subsequent cycles, is faulty. It's quite honestly a self-fulfilling prophecy. He creates the need for the reapers by making the reapers. It's insano logic at it's core. The biggest problem with the endings is that bloody starbrat. There is not enough context, nor reason for him to influence the plot as he does.
True enough. If it comes down to whether or not we trust the starchilds words then it really cant go anywhere since hes the only one who has seen the events unfold over the millenias. Aside of "from Ashes" things but as you said were dealing with very limited amount of info here so its either trust the catalyst or go blind. It comes down to how you feel about the starbrat I guess.

His logic might be insane but then, its not like a concept of an logic-wise insane AI is anything new. And if you feel he is a damn whacko you can take his place. Personally this is why I think control option is best choice. It does not interfere with the races and shepard can remain eternal as the ReaperKeeper to see if starchilds prophecy becomes a reality.

And *cough*makehumansthesupremerulersofthegalaxy*cough*
 

Biodeamon

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Apr 11, 2011
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All i have to say is this:you payed for the game that the developers made. And then they edited it even more just make people happy. what more could you want?
<youtube=7WHptG35EWU>
 

kuolonen

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Nov 19, 2009
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Adam Jensen said:
kuolonen said:
Adam Jensen said:
They never killed, but they did rebel. Always. If Starchild (+ his creators?) had not stopped them they might have followed through with it. And it only needs to happen once.
No they didn't rebel always. No one can know that. Starchild can only know about the ones that rebelled in the first cycle when he was created. The geth didn't rebel. They fought in self defense. And they stopped perusing quarians once they drove them off the planet. Because they don't need conflict.

kuolonen said:
Also remember heretics?
Yeah, I remember the heretics. But apparently you don't. The only reason they were heretics is because of the reapers. No reapers - no heretics. The reapers are directly responsible for violent geth uprising.

*Sigh* Well he said that they always rebelled. I dont know how often was enough but my thinking was that enough for starchild to go for reaper solution would be much. As for heretics my point of view would be that while the reaper did indeed influence the geth to attack organics, but it was more of it giving them a choice that they willingly took. But Im starting to think this is matter we will never be seeing eye-to-eye since we both probably see what we wish to see on basic premises and neither will ever see what the other sees. So agree to disagree I guess.
 

tehweave

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Apr 5, 2009
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I don't care anymore. Shepherd's story is over, they may continue the franchise with a new main character, and the series was pretty damn awesome for 99% of it. The ending to 3 wasn't great, but everyone forgets that part because it's the LAST THING THAT HAPPENS.

Did you forget the fun parts of ME3? Did you forget the cool storyline minus the ending?

I'm probably the only person on the planet who didn't hate the ending. AND I enjoyed the new ending.

Can we be done with this now? I've already moved onto Diablo 3 and am quite enjoying Nimblebit's new game.