Poll: Morality of To Catch a Predator.

[Starke]

looked it up, most fo the cases end in conviction, the only time it didnt in mass was the murpy where the guy killed himself, his office (after he died) decided not to prosecute claiming no evidence, the orginization that did To Catch a Predator, claimed they did it out of cowardice because of the suicide (not really they just said the coward part, im guessing the suicide was implied)

so the show isnt even on any more btw

It looks like nominally the show was televising nominal police sting operations, which is fine, because, these are the people who are trained to avoid entrapping suspects. The exception being Murphy, TX, where Dateline was apparently given carte blanche to conduct the investigation themselves, which resulted in every single case being dismissed, and the suicide.

 

[DeathWyrmNexus]

Now, as for enticing regular guys who wouldn't normally do anything bad? No. If a ten year old girl approached you when you were alone and offered to give you a blowjob and promised not to tell anyone would you take it? I would hope not. The fact that these people openly engaged in sexual relationships with people they believe to be children sets them aside from "normal people". These people need help. Some more then others.

I would and HAVE blocked people like that. I don't fuck with my freedom/morals.

 

[THE M3RCENARY]

I just find it hilarious.

 

[RamirezDoEverything]

sex with people under the age of 18:illegal, however right or wrong it may be. The law is the law. They agreed to go to these houses agreeing to have sex with a minor. Right.

 

[Kortney]

It woulld be the equivalent of being talked into switching your sexual orientation.

Yes it would, and that's why these people are unhealthy and need all the help they can get.

You can't take people's rights away just because they offend you. You want people to be charged with a crime before they even do it? That's bullshit and I'm glad the legal system in Western society doesn't agree with you.

All that aside, my main problem is that this show shits all over the names of men who haven't been found guilty. That's disgusting. Our legal system operates on the premise "innocent until proven guilty". That doesn't mean "innocent until you most likely are guilty". By all means, name and shame them if they are found guilty in a court of law - but don't do anything before that. You want to take that very fundamental base of the legal system away, and there will be injustices.

Read my edit in the first post, about them killing a man. I'd like to hear your response to that.

no he is dead because he couldnt face the fact he was engaging a minor online for sexual favors and didnt want to pay the penalty for his actions, the show had nothing to do with it, his own insecurities and issues are why he is dead.

Saying that is completely ignoring the provocation. In fact:

That's like saying bullies have nothing to do with teenage suicide. It's the teenagers own insecurities that did it, not the bullies provocation.

He was cornered in his house and arrested by a squad of gunmen for something he hadn't even done yet. He decided not to go through with the meeting. That doesn't mean you go to his house and kick the door open. For all they knew, the man could of been completely innocent aside from talking dirty to a minor online.

Why does this never happen with people who make death threats online? How come we are allowed to demonise sex offenders but not murderers? It's a social phase we are in.

Anybody who is on To Catch a Predator signs a release allowing them to be put on the television show, they personally allow their image to be used by the show; those criminals agreed to be on.

That's, to my knowledge, completely incorrect. Because they are tied up in child abuse claims they are able to be named and shamed and aren't needed to sign releases. For shows like COPS they have to, but as fair as I'm aware To Catch a Predator doesn't. If you watch the show, many of the men ask for the cameras to not show their face and Hansen says "Sorry, we can't do that".

The fact that the guy killed himself is a good thing too. That means that he won't live on to physically and emotionally abuse someone who is barely starting puberty.

And I'm going to stop reading there. The man needed a punishment and rehabilitation. I'm not going to argue with a person who is in favour of a man killing himself. The DA didn't even go to meet the boy, and for all we know he never has. He might of exclusively done it over the internet and never physically touched anyone.

 

[Thedayrecker]

First things first: I DON'T SUPPORT PEDOPHILIA!

Now, I do feel bad(ish) about this show. I mean technically the people haven't done anything wrong, but at the same time EWWWWW.

I dunno, I'm kind of tired, so I just hope I'm getting my point across without sounding like I'm drunk.

 

[Kortney]

Also, how much you wanna bet the DA who dismissed the charges is a closet pedophile?

He seems more to me as someone who follows the procedures of the legal system. You know... like a DA is supposed to do.

 

[Kortney]

HE ALREADY BROKE THE LAW! Therefor it doesn't matter.

No, it does matter. Are you claiming that he was the only one during To Catch a Predator's investigation who solicited sex and didn't show up? Rubbish. They even mention during that particular episode that many people don't show up. Why don't they go to their house on a sunday afternoon with 2 camera crews and arrest them at their home? Because that wouldn't be as exciting as arrested a DA. That's why.

Like the judge said, they could of arrested this man at any time. They knew where he worked, they knew his daily routines. They didn't need to go to the man's house and act up in front of the cameras. It was a complete mess and never would of happened that way if there wasn't a camera crew present.

This is a well respect man already in the public eye. He looks out his window and sees stacks of guns and cameras and knows he is just about to lose everything. His job, his credibility and his life. The police kick down his door. I can completely understand why he shot himself. He clearly was already sick in the head and misguided - he didn't need that extra, reckless step to push him over the edge.

I'm not debating the fact that they tried to arrest this man. I'm debating the way they went about it. As many legal professionals have said - the way they went about arresting that man was appalling. Downright appalling.

 

[Kermi]

I only caught this program once or twice. These guys invariably turn up at some house with alcohol and condoms with the alluded promises of sexual activity with a minor. Does it suck that a man who technically did nothing wrong was killed? Sure does.
Technically none of them have done anything wrong. It's not illegal to arrange sex meetings with a casual acquaintance online. It's not illegal to say you're 14 when you're really 25. Guys who appear on this show, potential paedophiles or not, have not committed any crimes, and would probably walk if they went to court.
However their names would be forever connected with their actions and their intended actions rather than the fact they were not guilty of anything.

From a purely moral standpoint, the show helps weed out individuals who may potentially bring harm to a minor, and possibly have already done so in the past. I can't object to the show on those grounds.

But is it really justice? I say no.

 

[Kanlic]

no he is dead because he couldnt face the fact he was engaging a minor online for sexual favors and didnt want to pay the penalty for his actions, the show had nothing to do with it, his own insecurities and issues are why he is dead.

I am first going to agree with this.

Anybody who is on To Catch a Predator signs a release allowing them to be put on the television show, they personally allow their image to be used by the show; those criminals agreed to be on.

That's, to my knowledge, completely incorrect. Because they are tied up in child abuse claims they are able to be named and shamed and aren't needed to sign releases. For shows like COPS they have to, but as fair as I'm aware To Catch a Predator doesn't. If you watch the show, many of the men ask for the cameras to not show their face and Hansen says "Sorry, we can't do that".

The fact that the guy killed himself is a good thing too. That means that he won't live on to physically and emotionally abuse someone who is barely starting puberty.

And I'm going to stop reading there. The man needed a punishment and rehabilitation. I'm not going to argue with a person who is in favour of a man killing himself. The DA didn't even go to meet the boy, and for all we know he never has. He might of exclusively done it over the internet and never physically touched anyone.

I am assuming you are basing your knowledge of the press releases through the fact that registered sex offenders have to be open about their past crimes. However, the guys on the show aren't convicted, they are accused. Granted the To Catch a Predator guys are using intimidation factors to get the guys on tape, but it is still their choice to be revealed. Who knows, maybe if they agreed to be on the show, they would have lighter sentences, but in the end, I don't know. Same for me as for you.

What do you think punishment and "rehabilitation" would do for a manic depressive like that. Do you think that a guy who was sent to jail for pedophilia is going to come out a reformed man? Fat chance. As a matter of fact, going into prison more often than not ingrains you further into the crime world, and I am pretty damn sure he'll go back to raping children again when he leaves prison. Ok yea, pedophiles get segregated from general pop, but that doesn't change much. I have no patience for a man who would be willing to do that to a minor, the fact that he offed himself only serves to show that he knew he was broken, and he just saved us from the trouble with having to deal with him.

 

[Kortney]

What do you think punishment and "rehabilitation" would do for a manic depressive like that.

What a weightless statement. You have no idea whether or not this man was beyond redemption. You never knew him. Also, just because someone has depression doesn't mean they can't be rehabilitated. I know some people personally who have come back from trying to kill themselves.

Do you think that a guy who was sent to jail for pedophilia is going to come out a reformed man? Fat chance.

I'm sure they have come out reformed before, and I'm sure they have come out even worse before. It's irrelevant either way. Just because his chances of rehabilitation might be low doesn't mean we are then able to turn our back on him.

As a matter of fact, going into prison more often than not ingrains you further into the crime world, and I am pretty damn sure he'll go back to raping children again when he leaves prison.

Once again, no you aren't. You don't know him. You don't even know if he has sexually abused a child before. Since his death there has been absolutely no evidence to suggest he had. It looks as if he kept solely to online misbehavior.

I have no patience for a man who would be willing to
do that to a minor

Nor do I. But the legal system has to. He is a human being and should of been dealt with better. He should of been arrested properly without a television crew and had a court trial where everything could have been sorted out. He most likely never physically harmed anyone.

He should have been treated equally. As I said earlier, many people during that episode solicited sex with the decoy online but never showed up. Why do they get to get away scot-free, yet the police kick this man's door down for it? Television ratings. That's why. He was an important man and NBC wanted to make good television. It's deplorable. They acted recklessly without any regard for equity.

The police should of at least followed protocol. Instead, they acted up for the cameras and he is dead. Which, you are pretty pleased about by the looks of things.

 

[Kanlic]

What do you think punishment and "rehabilitation" would do for a manic depressive like that.

What a weightless statement. You have no idea whether or not this man was beyond redemption. You never knew him. Also, just because someone has depression doesn't mean they can't be rehabilitated. I know some people personally who have come back from trying to kill themselves.

What I am saying is that instead of wasting tax dollars on trying to rehabilitate a suicidal pedophile, we could put that money into fixing roads or building schools among other things. I don't think we should care for a person with that mentality, period. Counselling the guy so that he wouldn't pull the gun on himself (which the police couldn't have stopped) would have delayed the inevitable. Once a manic depressive, always a manic depressive, and sometimes living ain't the best option.

Do you think that a guy who was sent to jail for pedophilia is going to come out a reformed man? Fat chance.

I'm sure they have come out reformed before, and I'm sure they have come out even worse before. It's irrelevant either way. Just because his chances of rehabilitation might be low doesn't mean we are then able to turn our back on him.

IT IS CALLED A WASTE OF TIME. Nothing is more precious than time, why should we care for a guy who in the end makes us look bad? Do you want to live in a society that cares for a man who wants to prey on children? Do you? I hope not. The batting average for sex offenders to be fully rehabilitated is remarkably low, so let's not waste our time with the bullshit of helping assholes to no extent.

As a matter of fact, going into prison more often than not ingrains you further into the crime world, and I am pretty damn sure he'll go back to raping children again when he leaves prison.

Once again, no you aren't. You don't know him. You don't even know if he has sexually abused a child before. Since his death there has been absolutely no evidence to suggest he had. It looks as if he kept solely to online misbehavior.

Well we are only basing our knowledge off of the video, but it would be ludicrous to assume that he only likes to troll the internet for underage ass and not expect to get more than a flirtatious conversation going. Guess what, you don't know him either, but we can safely assume he is a broken person if this is his tendency, to go online and solicit sex from minors. I don't understand why you are being an apologist for his behavior, unless you either engage in that kind of behavior or you have some kind of blind hope in the goodness of man because you paradoxically are losing faith in it.

The weird thing is that you seem to suggest that he was coerced into killing himself which wasn't the case. The guy wanted to die, so he did it. Would you rather have him live with himself for torturous amounts of years in prison while he is draining tax dollars and his sanity. Trust me, if no one cared for his life, and he didn't want to live it, then I can safely assume it was a Darwinian death.

I have no patience for a man who would be willing to
do that to a minor

Nor do I. But the legal system has to. He is a human being and should of been dealt with better. He should of been arrested properly without a television crew and had a court trial where everything could have been sorted out. He most likely never physically harmed anyone.

He should have been treated equally. As I said earlier, many people during that episode solicited sex with the decoy online but never showed up. Why do they get to get away scot-free, yet the police kick this man's door down for it? Television ratings. That's why. He was an important man and NBC wanted to make good television. It's deplorable. They acted recklessly without any regard for equity.

The police should of at least followed protocol. Instead, they acted up for the cameras and he is dead. Which, you are pretty pleased about by the looks of things.

Everyone they decoyed got arrested; the guy who offed himself was the most controversial, so Dateline wanted to focus on him. The police didn't do anything illegal, so I wouldn't say they didn't follow protocol. The point of the show is to make a mockery of the kinds of guys who would want to do such a horrible act, to shame them. Since when has shaming been a bad thing? It forces the attacked party to change their ways so they won't repeat their actions and warn others from not doing said action. In the case of pedophilia, I say kill the guys who are willing to have sex with minors so that we can at least scare off the guys who are thinking about having sex with minors.

 

[Kortney]

snip

Ok, this is turning into a circle jerk. Just leave it hey? We've both expressed our views. It comes down to a difference of opinion. You are more than happy to throw them to the lions, I'm not. That's really it.

Bless.

 

[BlueCollarTweaker]

Whoooooole lotta wishy-washy people in this thread. If they're pedophiles, they go to jail, if they aren't they don't. I have no problem with the existence and practices of this show.

In the immortal words of Walter Sobchak: Fuckin' eight year olds, dude.

 

[Kanlic]

snip

Ok, this is turning into a circle jerk. Just leave it hey? We've both expressed our views. It comes down to a difference of opinion. You are more than happy to throw them to the lions, I'm not. That's really it.

Bless.

Fine, what really annoys me about all of this is that you probably think I am some red-blooded tea-partier, when in fact I am a left leaning ex-Obama volunteering Mexican lover, yet any kind of apologetic behavior towards any group or people is unacceptable in my eyes. People need to be accountable for their own actions, and you suggesting that we should forgive and forget doesn't seem to solve anything. It sickens me, but you are right in the sense that we are running around in circles. I am done.

 

[BlueCollarTweaker]

I have no problem with this show's existence or practices. If they're pedos, they go to jail, if they aren't, they don't. If they can't be arrested immediately because of the show, they'll definitely get arrested later.

In the immortal words of Walter Sobchak: F**kin' eight year olds, dude.

And OP, that guy is dead because he shot himself, not because of the show.

 

[krimson_dropz]

well i can see it both ways i really can, however i do disagree with the show because yes it is enticing them. yes they have intent however i doubt that that should be enouggh to convict someone for this, morrally if not legally. i do see the "good" it does, however at the same time not only is it done for the wrong reasons (shock ratings etc.) but it is also handled very poorly. i mean do they deserve this humilitaion, etc? think about what happens in prison (for those that don't know they are generally especially targeted for beatings and such) i mean really i have a major issue with our desire to humiliate these people, and dehumanize them. even the forcing them to go themselves to war their neighbors of their past crimes simply makes their life horrid, what is the prison system there for? punishment, or rehabilitation, it should be the latter. but yeah back to the show it does entice them, and i do believe thats wrong.

 

[quiet_samurai]

It woulld be the equivalent of being talked into switching your sexual orientation.

Yes it would, and that's why these people are unhealthy and need all the help they can get.

I agree, I think people who want to fuck children are mentally ill. But that doesn't mean they shouldn't be held accountable.

You can't take people's rights away just because they offend you. You want people to be charged with a crime before they even do it? That's bullshit and I'm glad the legal system in Western society doesn't agree with you.

They aren't taking away peoples rights. All criminal proceedings are considered public record, from the first initial arrest to the sentancing. That's the law, look it up, there is no right to privacy when dealing with the crimainal justice system., hence the show COPS. And the charge they are giving these people are the attempt of the crimes. Attempted child molestation, sexual exploitation of a minor with the intent to do harm, those are actually crimes which earn charges. And what the hell are you talking about western society not agreeing with me? Every single point I have made in this entire thread is based on the laws of the USA, maybe you should go back and re-read them. And last I checked the USA was part of western culture

All that aside, my main problem is that this show shits all over the names of men who haven't been found guilty. That's disgusting. Our legal system operates on the premise "innocent until proven guilty". That doesn't mean "innocent until you most likely are guilty". By all means, name and shame them if they are found guilty in a court of law - but don't do anything before that. You want to take that very fundamental base of the legal system away, and there will be injustices.

Actually if you notice, during the show they say that sometimes almost 50+ men show up at each house they use for the sting operation. However when you watch that show how many do they actually depict? About maybe 8-10? How come such a small number? And then when the credits roll you will notice that they only ever mention the men they actually depicted in the show with their sentancing... all guilty. Not only that, most of these cases all took place up to a year or more before the show aired. You know why they do this? Most likely because all the other men had to many litigating circumstances in their case or not eneough evidence to be proven guilty off all the crimes they are being charged with, so they don't put them on the show.

So yes you are right, they are innocent until proven guilty, hence the delay in broadcasting, and the fact they only show a fraction of the perpetraitors.

Read my edit in the first post, about them killing a man. I'd like to hear your response to that

This is proof of nothing. First of all, they didn't kill him, he killed himself when they showed up to arrest him. How you think those are similar is a little odd. No to mention the fact the guy was a god damn lawyer...aka, a person very well versed in the intricacies (sp?) of the law. He probably knew he was in deep shit for his crimes, and when they came for him, he took the cowards way out and killed himself. He wasn't a victim of anything, he made his choices and couldn't handle the consequences.

Also, It's not the TV program that catches them. It's a group of people in the Perverted Justice program that is made up of civilians and law enforcement. They have caught thousands of perverts online, had them arrested, and if there is evidence enough have them put on trial. So one guys out of thousands, kills himself when the police come, that is hardly enough to say that the methods they use is immoral.

1/1000's = no statistical proof at all.

 

[insaneHoshi]

Soliciting a minor is a crime, sorry to burst your bubble. still not the shows fault, he killed himself, the show had nothing to do with it.

Except for the fact there were cameras and hansen outside his house, Hansen giving the cops his number etc.

for the year, why not, if they build up enough they can wiat, some shows wait as long or longer before airing.

As for the other quesiton, I dont know.

It's hard for a company to sit on footage in the can for a year. They spend the money today, but won't see a return on investment until next year? That's a hard sell in media.

also if they are conviceted they cna show more things

Hadn't thought of that. Thought that would mean... what, nearly a year between primary photography and air?

I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that all of the guys from the show walked off scott-free once a lot of the details on how the investigation was conducted came out and I think almost all of them got out on the simple grounds of entrapment.

If that's true, I'd be very interested to see the article.

Ive been called evilbefore for my if they do wrong there fault attitude. if you everplayed DnD you know about the 9 axis morality system. Well once took a rather long and kinda fun "what aligment are you quiz"

so the break down between my freinsd (who took is seriously, not answered kill babies every time they could to get chaotic evil) was Alot of Neutrol and Chaotic Good, one Lawful Neutral, and one LAwful evil, I was the lawful evil.

The point of this, besides funny is, when a person breaks just laws, and their life is ruined, I feel no sympathy at all.

But theres this thing called presumption of innocence in out society, you see you cant punish someone before they are found guilty , But what this show does is punish people regardless of weather their proven guilty or innocent in a court of law.

On a complely different note could any of these suspects claim that they assumed they were going to a sting, since they see it so often in the media?

It doesn't matter what the courts say. It only should matter what the facts point to. All of these people are monsters who deserve to have their lives ruined and it doesn't matter if they are let off or found innocent, that's due to corruption of the law agencies.

Man i love this day and age where the guilt of some one may be presumed by the actions of a TV SHOW!

 

[supermariner]

In britain it's illegal for the police to purposefully create the situation for anybody to offend in
because without them creating the chance the offender would never have offended
it's called entrapment

so my personal opinion is that although these people DO have the mindset to commit the crime
they wouldn't have done it otherwise
if someone offers you a free stolen dvd player
you've committed a crime in handling stolen goods
where you wouldn't have actively looked out for one usually