Poll: New forum rules - Yay or Nay?

[Ashcrexl]

ok, i'm going to post something now so i can see these rules. then i will give my opinion.

alright, they seem fair. i don't see how it's any different from before as i didnt memeorize the previous incarnation.

 

[Woodsey]

I didn't realise it was that fucking hard to not be a dick. If you're that worried then you probably piss people off enough to deserve it...

Your use of 'you' here could be construed as offensive, because even in the general use of you it's a loaded word that obviously has a target of whoever is reading the post. You have one hard swear word and two mild swear words, your tone is accusatory and your post is only two short sentences long. Under the new rules I suspect that would be enough to get you reported.

I'm really really not trying to get you angry, or troll you, and I'm not going to report you, I'm just trying to point out how even what seems like the most innocuous of posts to you could be misread by anyone and reported. And unless the moderators are really on the ball (which I've never been entirely convinced about) then either everyone will get probations really quickly, or no one will report anyone.

And as for why i've never been entirely convinced of the moderator's alertness, because I know I'll have to justify that to avoid the banhammer. I've had three probations (that i can remember) that have been overturned because my original post wasn't actually offensive. When I've spoken to an admin and they've read it they've agreed that either it was misreported and the moderator never took the time to read it, or the moderator was overzealous. With this new system those mistakes will start getting people banned and probationed unfairly and unjustly, with no way to take back the mark against their record. And that isn't fair.

Actually yeah, I'm flame-baiting there aren't I?

I'm sure there is a way to take punishment off. The moderators are not bad people, and I'm sure they understand that mistakes happen on their end.

I didn't realise it was that fucking hard to not be a dick. If you're that worried then you probably piss people off enough to deserve it...

My first suspension was for low content(Which was probably just a simple mistake)nine days after I joined. It's hardly as clear cut as you make it seem.

Ah, low content. The only reason I have warnings. I can understand being told off for it, but a suspension? Cor' Blimey. Wonder what was going on there...

I didn't realise it was that fucking hard to not be a dick. If you're that worried then you probably piss people off enough to deserve it...

Its less about that, more about the permanency. Just because you can appeal doesn't mean it will work.

I made a joke about roofies, got probated or suspended, and when I appealed it I was told I was "advocating date rape", no question.

And why should something you wrote a year ago have an affect on what you write now, anyway?

I see your point about the roofies, but when was this?

...As for why it should have an effect on what you write now, I have no idea. I admit defeat on this, as all I can say is: "It just does."

Recently - and I've had a number of other odd strikes against me too; some of which I've gotten taken back, admittedly, but ones that shouldn't have been there in the first place. And I don't like the idea of being told I'm advocating date rape when I'm evidently not. The vast majority of my offences have also occurred from around the start of this year, which is went the rules started changing a fair bit and when.

This whole measuring system makes things unnecessarily strict. It is not a fun place to be in when everyone's afraid having a debate that gets a little bit heated because it'll tip them permanently closer towards a ban.

 

[Harveypot]

Yeah, they're alright. I don't get into trouble anyway.

 

[Nerf Ninja]

Some have said they get to see what people were probated for when they check peoples profiles have they changed that already? because I can't find it.

Seriously considering not bothering to come here any more.

I once got a three day suspension for saying something unpleasant about Jim Sterling (something about his glasses making him look silly and that he "appears" to be a professional troll (I.E. posts to create a negative response) I used the appeal function not to actually appeal against it because I knew I had gone overboard but more to question why my post in the many that were just as, if not more offensive was chosen for moderation. I got a message back saying they would change it to a one day suspension... a couple of days after my suspension ended.

 

[Spinwhiz]

99.9% of the forum members don't have more than 2 warnings (if I'm not mistaken, 82% don't have any infractions).

These numbers mean nothing when you consider how many people have created accounts and then never posted or posted very little.

If people can't learn how to be respectful towards others and follow very simple rules, they won't be here for long. Everyone has a bad day but even off of the internet, if you do something stupid on that bad day, you are held accountable. The same goes for The Escapist forums.

So people should be judged based on their past mistakes, not on their present ones.

Also, why are warnings held against you. That's unbelievably unfair.

Actually, those are numbers for people who post on The Escapist, in the forums, not everyone who visits or has an account.

Also, a warning is just that "stop doing this". How many times should we have to tell someone to stop doing something before they actually understand? With the new penalty system, now they understand.

Some people might... react negatively to what could be construed as an unfair system and intentionally be banned in as spectacular and offensive a way possible in what they see as a protest in a corrupt system. Not that I am saying that anyone should do that but dont be surprised if it happens.

And I will happily ban those people and never think of them again.

 

[Geo Da Sponge]

I am now being held to account for something I did over two and a half years ago which earned me a three day ban.

If I admit I was a prick back then and I'm not one now, can I have a new account?

 

[skeliton112]

testing!

I have no problem with any of these rules, they arent much different to the old ones.

 

[Spinwhiz]

I find it rather unfair that there's absolutely no way to clear your record. Everybody slips up now and then. I'm usually the first to advocate harsh punishment for infractions, but this is ridiculous. With harsh punishments should come rewards for good behavior. So if you've not committed any infractions for a certain amount of time, your 'forum heath meter' should go back down.

Nobody should be able to slip up 8 times and being given more chances. If anyone can't learn how to be respectful and follow our rules after what is pretty much 8 infractions, they shouldn't be here.

Not even if the infractions are upwards of 6 months to year apart? Maybe even 2 years or more? 'Cause clearly if that's the case, that's not a person who's out to cause trouble; that's a person who just got a little carried away one day.

That is why we give 7 chances. Don't think I'm trying to push you, or anyone else, off either. I completely understand where you are coming from as we've had this discussion internally before we could even think about launching the new penalty system and updated rules (which has been months now). We just feel that we do give chances, 8 of them, and those who can not hold it together for The Escapist to have to tell someone 8 times that isn't how you behave is more than enough.

I just see one problem with this. One guy, lets call him Jason, gets 7 mod actions in 7 years. Jason gets permabanned. Another guy, lets call him Alex, gets 7 in 7 days. The punishment doesn't seem to fit the crime.

And I see that as "We told Jason and Alex 7 times how to act on our forums and they didn't listen."

Isn't it slightly different for someone to just disregard the rules and someone to have 7 bad days in 2556 days?

We hold people accountable the same way. People may not like it but it's the way we are going to do things. Ironically enough, the people who have been here the longest have rarely been warned for anything AND post in the forums. It comes from respecting others and knowing when to walk away before you flame someone.

 

[Qizx]

I find it rather unfair that there's absolutely no way to clear your record. Everybody slips up now and then. I'm usually the first to advocate harsh punishment for infractions, but this is ridiculous. With harsh punishments should come rewards for good behavior. So if you've not committed any infractions for a certain amount of time, your 'forum heath meter' should go back down.

Nobody should be able to slip up 8 times and being given more chances. If anyone can't learn how to be respectful and follow our rules after what is pretty much 8 infractions, they shouldn't be here.

Not even if the infractions are upwards of 6 months to year apart? Maybe even 2 years or more? 'Cause clearly if that's the case, that's not a person who's out to cause trouble; that's a person who just got a little carried away one day.

That is why we give 7 chances. Don't think I'm trying to push you, or anyone else, off either. I completely understand where you are coming from as we've had this discussion internally before we could even think about launching the new penalty system and updated rules (which has been months now). We just feel that we do give chances, 8 of them, and those who can not hold it together for The Escapist to have to tell someone 8 times that isn't how you behave is more than enough.

I just see one problem with this. One guy, lets call him Jason, gets 7 mod actions in 7 years. Jason gets permabanned. Another guy, lets call him Alex, gets 7 in 7 days. The punishment doesn't seem to fit the crime.

And I see that as "We told Jason and Alex 7 times how to act on our forums and they didn't listen."

I agree with the premise of that but one thing that must even be admitted by anyone is this: What if someone gets 7 speeding tickets throughout their entire life? Should they lose their legal status to drive? Probably not.
If someone gets 7 speeding tickets in a week, they will lose their license for about a year or maybe more, but surely not a permanent banhammer from getting behind the wheel, and that's an extreme case.
:/ I just think that eventual forgiveness is something that everyone and every organization should strive for
(I hope this doesn't incur some sort of wrath, I'm not sure if quoting a mod is allowed)

 

[Canid117]

99.9% of the forum members don't have more than 2 warnings (if I'm not mistaken, 82% don't have any infractions).

These numbers mean nothing when you consider how many people have created accounts and then never posted or posted very little.

If people can't learn how to be respectful towards others and follow very simple rules, they won't be here for long. Everyone has a bad day but even off of the internet, if you do something stupid on that bad day, you are held accountable. The same goes for The Escapist forums.

So people should be judged based on their past mistakes, not on their present ones.

Also, why are warnings held against you. That's unbelievably unfair.

Actually, those are numbers for people who post on The Escapist, in the forums, not everyone who visits or has an account.

Also, a warning is just that "stop doing this". How many times should we have to tell someone to stop doing something before they actually understand? With the new penalty system, now they understand.

Some people might... react negatively to what could be construed as an unfair system and intentionally be banned in as spectacular and offensive a way possible in what they see as a protest in a corrupt system. Not that I am saying that anyone should do that but dont be surprised if it happens.

And I will happily ban those people and never think of them again.

I look forward to watching this. Some of the posts might be funny and I do love to post in b4 the lock images. Can I post those one threads that are obviously going to be locked or do I have to include an essay with each one?

 

[Spinwhiz]

I find it rather unfair that there's absolutely no way to clear your record. Everybody slips up now and then. I'm usually the first to advocate harsh punishment for infractions, but this is ridiculous. With harsh punishments should come rewards for good behavior. So if you've not committed any infractions for a certain amount of time, your 'forum heath meter' should go back down.

Nobody should be able to slip up 8 times and being given more chances. If anyone can't learn how to be respectful and follow our rules after what is pretty much 8 infractions, they shouldn't be here.

Not even if the infractions are upwards of 6 months to year apart? Maybe even 2 years or more? 'Cause clearly if that's the case, that's not a person who's out to cause trouble; that's a person who just got a little carried away one day.

That is why we give 7 chances. Don't think I'm trying to push you, or anyone else, off either. I completely understand where you are coming from as we've had this discussion internally before we could even think about launching the new penalty system and updated rules (which has been months now). We just feel that we do give chances, 8 of them, and those who can not hold it together for The Escapist to have to tell someone 8 times that isn't how you behave is more than enough.

I just see one problem with this. One guy, lets call him Jason, gets 7 mod actions in 7 years. Jason gets permabanned. Another guy, lets call him Alex, gets 7 in 7 days. The punishment doesn't seem to fit the crime.

And I see that as "We told Jason and Alex 7 times how to act on our forums and they didn't listen."

I agree with the premise of that but one thing that must even be admitted by anyone is this: What if someone gets 7 speeding tickets throughout their entire life? Should they lose their legal status to drive? Probably not.
If someone gets 7 speeding tickets in a week, they will lose their license for about a year or maybe more, but surely not a permanent banhammer from getting behind the wheel, and that's an extreme case.
:/ I just think that eventual forgiveness is something that everyone and every organization should strive for
(I hope this doesn't incur some sort of wrath, I'm not sure if quoting a mod is allowed)

Modwrath? For what? You were respectful but had a different opinion, nor did you flame me. If everyone debated like you, we wouldn't need mods. So, thank you.

Moving on, if someone does get multiple tickets over time, they will get their drivers license revoked and eventually completely. The law does not like repeat offenders. We aren't the law, nor do we care to be, but we don't like repeat offenders either.

 

[Chris646]

I think that the forum health meter could be good, but only if you are allowed to earn strikes back.

 

[darkfire613]

I don't know if I really like how strikes can never be lost, but I guess it balances with the four "warning" marks you get before probation/suspension. One thing I'd want to know is if these marks are visible on your profile or not.

EDIT: I see the Health Meter on my profile now, scratch that question. I don't really think ad blockers fall under "illegal or adult material" though. I get why you may not want people discussing things that lose the site revenue, but would this include the post I think Kathleen DeVere made a while ago about why they're bad? Does this post count because it mentions the words "ad blocker"?

 

[Spinwhiz]

99.9% of the forum members don't have more than 2 warnings (if I'm not mistaken, 82% don't have any infractions).

These numbers mean nothing when you consider how many people have created accounts and then never posted or posted very little.

If people can't learn how to be respectful towards others and follow very simple rules, they won't be here for long. Everyone has a bad day but even off of the internet, if you do something stupid on that bad day, you are held accountable. The same goes for The Escapist forums.

So people should be judged based on their past mistakes, not on their present ones.

Also, why are warnings held against you. That's unbelievably unfair.

Actually, those are numbers for people who post on The Escapist, in the forums, not everyone who visits or has an account.

Also, a warning is just that "stop doing this". How many times should we have to tell someone to stop doing something before they actually understand? With the new penalty system, now they understand.

Some people might... react negatively to what could be construed as an unfair system and intentionally be banned in as spectacular and offensive a way possible in what they see as a protest in a corrupt system. Not that I am saying that anyone should do that but dont be surprised if it happens.

And I will happily ban those people and never think of them again.

I look forward to watching this. Some of the posts might be funny and I do love to post in b4 the lock images. Can I post those one threads that are obviously going to be locked or do I have to include an essay with each one?

Do what you have to do, you know the rules.

 

[Geo Da Sponge]

If you're going to promote yourselves as a 'lifestyle website' (you certainly asked me to vote for you as one) there must be some consideration for the fact that not everyone wants to have epic debates all the time.

 

[Xman490]

It sounds good.

 

[Canid117]

99.9% of the forum members don't have more than 2 warnings (if I'm not mistaken, 82% don't have any infractions).

These numbers mean nothing when you consider how many people have created accounts and then never posted or posted very little.

If people can't learn how to be respectful towards others and follow very simple rules, they won't be here for long. Everyone has a bad day but even off of the internet, if you do something stupid on that bad day, you are held accountable. The same goes for The Escapist forums.

So people should be judged based on their past mistakes, not on their present ones.

Also, why are warnings held against you. That's unbelievably unfair.

Actually, those are numbers for people who post on The Escapist, in the forums, not everyone who visits or has an account.

Also, a warning is just that "stop doing this". How many times should we have to tell someone to stop doing something before they actually understand? With the new penalty system, now they understand.

Some people might... react negatively to what could be construed as an unfair system and intentionally be banned in as spectacular and offensive a way possible in what they see as a protest in a corrupt system. Not that I am saying that anyone should do that but dont be surprised if it happens.

And I will happily ban those people and never think of them again.

I look forward to watching this. Some of the posts might be funny and I do love to post in b4 the lock images. Can I post those one threads that are obviously going to be locked or do I have to include an essay with each one?

Do what you have to do, you know the rules.

Fine I'll throw a sentence under the picture.

*pouts in the corner*

 

[teutonicman]

Part of this post is a test as my profile health meter currently says that I'm on probation. Back to the topic at hand, I agree with you. I don't like the idea that your "health" doesn't return.

Edit: Okay so I clearly not on probation.

 

[GeorgW]

Are there any moderators on this thread discussing this? Because it feels like an open dialogue between users and moderators is what we need right now.

I'm here, and have been since the start.It's just hard to keep up.

EDIT: Also, does anyone know if you appeal successfully, do the negated badges become available again?

Yes, they should become available.

 

[Cabisco]

It's an interesting enough idea but I didn't personally think the rules needed changing, but then again I've been absent for a long time.

I guess we'll see if it works out, and I hope that the Mods are willing to remove the system if the majority of users complain about it after a period of adjustment. That is, even if it's worth complaining about, like I said we will see