Poll: New forum rules - Yay or Nay?

[TriGGeR_HaPPy]

Over 99% of the current posters don't have more than 2 warnings.

I keep seeing you throw this number out and I think it's rather misleading. How many of those 99% are actually active members with a reasonable number of posts under their belt? I'd wager a good percentage of those are people who scoot in make a single post, say for March Mayhem, and aren't seen again. I'd be interested in seeing what percentage of users with say more than 50 or 100 posts to their name have multiple warnings.

Surprisingly few, actually. When just browsing the forums, you'll find a lot of people who don't even have a warning to their name. And yes, I'm talking about active people within the forums with more than 100 posts.

 

[Admiral Stukov]

~snip~

Good questions.

For your first question has been an internal discussion for some time. While we currently don't have this system in place, it probably will happen in the future. Currently, we just don't have it, so everyone has 8 strikes. Our goal is not to make people hate the forums, our goal is to make them better and by doing so, we listened to the community to a) update the rules and give examples and b) make penalties more consistent across the board. We have done both of these because we are trying to make this a better place, based on community feedback. Will we implement a "good behavior" process? Probably but it isn't happening yet. People should have to be warned 8 times to be respectful and not flame people.

As for your second question, those are mainly examples. So, for instance, if people want to talk about the uses of media marijuana or the illegal growth of marijuana and how it effects the economy, sure! Those discussions aren't illegal. However, if someone states that they love smoking marijuana, that is advocating the use of it and is illegal, which we will penalize. I remember someone brought up same sex marriages. Why would we lock that? It's a current topic in the news and worthy of discussion. However, if someone in that thread is stating they are married illegally, then we have to penalize them (granted I don't see this situation ever happening). So it's not that people can't discuss what is illegal, it is about advocating illegal acts. This also goes the same for murder. If you are talking about how you would murder someone (or would like to), we are going to penalize you. Speaking about a murder case or subject is completely fine. If anyone's country differs from the US laws, they are welcome to send in an appeal and the appeal board can take care of it.

First of all thank you for taking the time to answering.

Secondly, I thought I might as well share some refined ideas I had about changing the current 'health bar' system for the better.

Have it as an eight segment bar just like now, and have everyone start at a quarter, (or possibly half) filled.
A warning would remove one segment, a more serious offense two. Once the bar is empty you get banned.
In addition the bar would slowly fill up as you post. I was thinking something along the lines of posting the equivalent of the Morpheus badge, 1000 posts without any modwrath (for this idea I'd count warnings as modwrath too) in no less than two months if memory serves, would earn you one segment, possibly it would also require exponentially more post to reach the higher segments.
To avoid having people 'saving up goodwill' for the purpose of breaking the rules without getting the sufficient punishment I'm thinking a system that keeps track on how often you have received modwrath, and would serve as a negative multiplier. Having something more serious than a simple warning (or too many warnings) on your record would make your health bar fill up slower.
I'm also thinking it could be a good idea to have a reward for completely filling up your health bar, a shiny badge for example.
Simply put having a bar that works in reverse to the current one.

As I see it a system like that would be a bit harsher; if you start out on half health you're only 4 warnings away from a ban, but I would think it would at the same time also encourage good behavior, as it would take considerable time and effort to earn an extra chance, and the proposed badge award for filling up your bar completely would naturally be removed if you stopped behaving.

I naturally do not know how hard it would be to implement, or how willing the staff/mods would be to implement it, but I felt there was no harm in sharing my ideas.
I just know that I for one would prefer a system with a lower number of chances that takes into account the rest of your posting history, not just the posts in which you broke the rules over one with a high number of chances that is completely unforgiving.

~the Admiral

 

[theultimateend]

I know it's hard to think of us as people, as opposed to some big faceless company, but we are.

Your website is comprised of only like 20-30 people isn't it?

 

[Naheal]

These are exceptions, not the tendency, though, and you know it. People get angry and post things that wouldn't normally go there. Rationality doesn't come into play when people get angry enough. We're just not wired to work like that and people are going to make mistakes. Hell, people who frequent the R&P forums get warnings and suspensions fairly regularly, unless part of your goal is to filter out all but the maybe 3 people that frequent there that seem to be fine.

That specific area of this forum tends to inflame people more than any other part and, because of this, we are constantly getting new blood because of this.

I'm not saying that the record needs to be eliminated; far from it, actually. I'm saying that the frequency and the severity of the infractions needs to be taken into account when we're talking about punishment, otherwise you're asking people to be unrealistically saintly or quiet.

You're absolutely right - even the best-intentioned person can get heated and make a mistake. Which is why it takes *eight* strikes to get booted from the forum. EIGHT. That's plenty of chances.

Which, again, does not take frequency or severity into account. If someone's here for three years and, under the new system, has a good seven infractions over the first year and proceeds to have a clean record for the next two, then slips up once, once, they're banned with this system.

 

[Spinwhiz]

Spoiler

That is why we give 7 chances. Don't think I'm trying to push you, or anyone else, off either. I completely understand where you are coming from as we've had this discussion internally before we could even think about launching the new penalty system and updated rules (which has been months now). We just feel that we do give chances, 8 of them, and those who can not hold it together for The Escapist to have to tell someone 8 times that isn't how you behave is more than enough.

My problem with that is I've had half of those chances skipped over. I'm in the yellow and I've only ever had one post break the rules. Never got any warnings, it was straight to probation the first time. So now anything I do is automatically a suspension, and even though that was quite a long time ago I'm 3 away from a permanent ban.

I would say to send in an appeal then. They have the ability to read your plead for change and change it.

You aren't addressing the main issue of the punishment system. You're asking us to slip as little as possible, but, being human, it's going to happen. You're also stating that, if we slip up eight times, it's going to result in a permaban. This is where I feel that the system wouldn't work. While there are a few individuals who would be able to keep that by only posting maybe once or twice a week and stating something about a game or two, this essentially puts a lifetime limit on a particular account.

I'm sorry, mate. I understand that you're looking at a rewards system down the road if we play nice, but you really need to consider bringing such a system in sooner rather than later.

Actually, there are members who have been here for years and have over 10,000 posts who don't have a single warning. Over 99% of the current posters don't have more than 2 warnings. It IS possible and should be if everyone respects everyone else. The problem comes in when people's attitudes get in their way and they get "mad". This is a text based forum, if something pisses you off that much, walk away. Even better, report, ignore and walk away for a bit. There is no reason someone should be warned 8 times to be respectful and not call others names. In a debate setting, you would be disqualified, in real life you could be arrested for verbal assault.

If people really want to be able to say whatever they want, in any way they want, there are a lot of places on the internet to do so.

These are exceptions, not the tendency, though, and you know it. People get angry and post things that wouldn't normally go there. Rationality doesn't come into play when people get angry enough. We're just not wired to work like that and people are going to make mistakes. Hell, people who frequent the R&P forums get warnings and suspensions fairly regularly, unless part of your goal is to filter out all but the maybe 3 people that frequent there that seem to be fine.

That specific area of this forum tends to inflame people more than any other part and, because of this, we are constantly getting new blood because of this.

I'm not saying that the record needs to be eliminated; far from it, actually. I'm saying that the frequency and the severity of the infractions needs to be taken into account when we're talking about punishment, otherwise you're asking people to be unrealistically saintly or quiet.

99% of the posters with less than 2 warnings is not an exception, it's the overwhelming majority. However, I'm not saying we won't implement a system to get strikes back. What I am saying is people need to hold themselves accountable for what they say and how they say it, regardless of who they may be. That isn't asking too much.

 

[Canadamus Prime]

I find it rather unfair that there's absolutely no way to clear your record. Everybody slips up now and then. I'm usually the first to advocate harsh punishment for infractions, but this is ridiculous. With harsh punishments should come rewards for good behavior. So if you've not committed any infractions for a certain amount of time, your 'forum heath meter' should go back down.

Nobody should be able to slip up 8 times and being given more chances. If anyone can't learn how to be respectful and follow our rules after what is pretty much 8 infractions, they shouldn't be here.

Not even if the infractions are upwards of 6 months to year apart? Maybe even 2 years or more? 'Cause clearly if that's the case, that's not a person who's out to cause trouble; that's a person who just got a little carried away one day.

That is why we give 7 chances. Don't think I'm trying to push you, or anyone else, off either. I completely understand where you are coming from as we've had this discussion internally before we could even think about launching the new penalty system and updated rules (which has been months now). We just feel that we do give chances, 8 of them, and those who can not hold it together for The Escapist to have to tell someone 8 times that isn't how you behave is more than enough.

Ok, but what really gets me is I didn't get the four warnings and I'm already in the yellow zone. Under the old system I've received mod wrath, I think, 3 times, 1 probation, and 2 suspensions. I'm not going to pretend I didn't deserve them, 'cause I did. I let myself get carried away, what gets me is how does that translate into 5 warnings under the new system?
Edit: esp. since there's no chance for redemption.

Anyone with more than 2 probations (even suspensions) automatically received a yellow. Some people got lucky, having more than 2 suspensions and not getting a red automatically or even getting permabanned immediately. This would obviously be in bad taste, so we didn't do that. If you received 1 probation or less (warnings), you will be in the green. On a rare occasion where you had 4 or 5 warnings plus a probation, you will also be in the yellow probation category.

Well I just don't think that's right. I've only been in trouble with the mods 3 times and I'm already out 5 out of my 8 chances.

Then send in an appeal and see what happens.

Appeal?!?! With what? I said for each of those in infractions, I deserved what I got. I had broken the rules and I served my punishment peacefully and without complaint. Now it seems I'm being punished for them AGAIN however. I fail to see how that's justified.

You aren't being punished again, you are being held accountable for your actions, just as you were before. Did you think your previous infractions disappeared? They never disappear. We always use them to tell us what the next step in the penalty process is, regardless of time. Now we've just let you see it.

Yeah, I get that. But how does my 3 isolated incidents translate into 5 out of 8 chances before permaban?

Because 2 of those were suspensions. Anyone who received a suspension was automatically given a yellow and put on probation, which is technically a step down.

Yeah, well I just don't feel I'm being given that same treatment as everyone else.

 

[Spinwhiz]

Over 99% of the current posters don't have more than 2 warnings.

I keep seeing you throw this number out and I think it's rather misleading. How many of those 99% are actually active members with a reasonable number of posts under their belt? I'd wager a good percentage of those are people who scoot in make a single post, say for March Mayhem, and aren't seen again. I'd be interested in seeing what percentage of users with say more than 50 or 100 posts to their name have multiple warnings.

Well, I can't give you the actual numbers so you are just going to have to believe that I'm telling you the truth. However, think of it this way, if the forums were worse, don't you think we would restructure the whole thing instead of just updating the rules and penalty system as the community has asked for?

 

[Spinwhiz]

Spoiler

That is why we give 7 chances. Don't think I'm trying to push you, or anyone else, off either. I completely understand where you are coming from as we've had this discussion internally before we could even think about launching the new penalty system and updated rules (which has been months now). We just feel that we do give chances, 8 of them, and those who can not hold it together for The Escapist to have to tell someone 8 times that isn't how you behave is more than enough.

My problem with that is I've had half of those chances skipped over. I'm in the yellow and I've only ever had one post break the rules. Never got any warnings, it was straight to probation the first time. So now anything I do is automatically a suspension, and even though that was quite a long time ago I'm 3 away from a permanent ban.

I would say to send in an appeal then. They have the ability to read your plead for change and change it.

You aren't addressing the main issue of the punishment system. You're asking us to slip as little as possible, but, being human, it's going to happen. You're also stating that, if we slip up eight times, it's going to result in a permaban. This is where I feel that the system wouldn't work. While there are a few individuals who would be able to keep that by only posting maybe once or twice a week and stating something about a game or two, this essentially puts a lifetime limit on a particular account.

I'm sorry, mate. I understand that you're looking at a rewards system down the road if we play nice, but you really need to consider bringing such a system in sooner rather than later.

Actually, there are members who have been here for years and have over 10,000 posts who don't have a single warning. Over 99% of the current posters don't have more than 2 warnings. It IS possible and should be if everyone respects everyone else. The problem comes in when people's attitudes get in their way and they get "mad". This is a text based forum, if something pisses you off that much, walk away. Even better, report, ignore and walk away for a bit. There is no reason someone should be warned 8 times to be respectful and not call others names. In a debate setting, you would be disqualified, in real life you could be arrested for verbal assault.

If people really want to be able to say whatever they want, in any way they want, there are a lot of places on the internet to do so.

Speaking of warnings, are the warnings of old being counted against us? For low content posts, etc.?

Yes, everything transfers over, although nobody will be getting more than a probation.

 

[Chibz]

First of all thank you for taking the time to answering.

Secondly, I thought I might as well share some refined ideas I had about changing the current 'health bar' system for the better.

Have it as an eight segment bar just like now, and have everyone start at a quarter, (or possibly half) filled.
A warning would remove one segment, a more serious offense two. Once the bar is empty you get banned.
In addition the bar would slowly fill up as you post. I was thinking something along the lines of posting the equivalent of the Morpheus badge, 1000 posts without any modwrath (for this idea I'd count warnings as modwrath too) in no less than two months if memory serves, would earn you one segment, possibly it would also require exponentially more post to reach the higher segments.
To avoid having people 'saving up goodwill' for the purpose of breaking the rules without getting the sufficient punishment I'm thinking a system that keeps track on how often you have received modwrath, and would serve as a negative multiplier. Having something more serious than a simple warning (or too many warnings) on your record would make your health bar fill up slower.
I'm also thinking it could be a good idea to have a reward for completely filling up your health bar, a shiny badge for example.
Simply put having a bar that works in reverse to the current one.

As I see it a system like that would be a bit harsher; if you start out on half health you're only 4 warnings away from a ban, but I would think it would at the same time also encourage good behavior, as it would take considerable time and effort to earn an extra chance, and the proposed badge award for filling up your bar completely would naturally be removed if you stopped behaving.

I naturally do not know how hard it would be to implement, or how willing the staff/mods would be to implement it, but I felt there was no harm in sharing my ideas.
I just know that I for one would prefer a system with a lower number of chances that takes into account the rest of your posting history, not just the posts in which you broke the rules over one with a high number of chances that is completely unforgiving.

~the Admiral

I have to say... I did a read over of your idea. It's brilliant. Why can't we have this?!

Well, I can't give you the actual numbers so you are just going to have to believe that I'm telling you the truth. However, think of it this way, if the forums were worse, don't you think we would restructure the whole thing instead of just updating the rules and penalty system as the community has asked for?

I hope you don't take this the wrong way, but until you provide actual numbers I can't believe you. Blame Ben Cousins & the Battlefield Heroes Fiasco. Sort of embittered me, if you will.

 

[Naheal]

Spoiler

Spoiler

That is why we give 7 chances. Don't think I'm trying to push you, or anyone else, off either. I completely understand where you are coming from as we've had this discussion internally before we could even think about launching the new penalty system and updated rules (which has been months now). We just feel that we do give chances, 8 of them, and those who can not hold it together for The Escapist to have to tell someone 8 times that isn't how you behave is more than enough.

My problem with that is I've had half of those chances skipped over. I'm in the yellow and I've only ever had one post break the rules. Never got any warnings, it was straight to probation the first time. So now anything I do is automatically a suspension, and even though that was quite a long time ago I'm 3 away from a permanent ban.

I would say to send in an appeal then. They have the ability to read your plead for change and change it.

You aren't addressing the main issue of the punishment system. You're asking us to slip as little as possible, but, being human, it's going to happen. You're also stating that, if we slip up eight times, it's going to result in a permaban. This is where I feel that the system wouldn't work. While there are a few individuals who would be able to keep that by only posting maybe once or twice a week and stating something about a game or two, this essentially puts a lifetime limit on a particular account.

I'm sorry, mate. I understand that you're looking at a rewards system down the road if we play nice, but you really need to consider bringing such a system in sooner rather than later.

Actually, there are members who have been here for years and have over 10,000 posts who don't have a single warning. Over 99% of the current posters don't have more than 2 warnings. It IS possible and should be if everyone respects everyone else. The problem comes in when people's attitudes get in their way and they get "mad". This is a text based forum, if something pisses you off that much, walk away. Even better, report, ignore and walk away for a bit. There is no reason someone should be warned 8 times to be respectful and not call others names. In a debate setting, you would be disqualified, in real life you could be arrested for verbal assault.

If people really want to be able to say whatever they want, in any way they want, there are a lot of places on the internet to do so.

These are exceptions, not the tendency, though, and you know it. People get angry and post things that wouldn't normally go there. Rationality doesn't come into play when people get angry enough. We're just not wired to work like that and people are going to make mistakes. Hell, people who frequent the R&P forums get warnings and suspensions fairly regularly, unless part of your goal is to filter out all but the maybe 3 people that frequent there that seem to be fine.

That specific area of this forum tends to inflame people more than any other part and, because of this, we are constantly getting new blood because of this.

I'm not saying that the record needs to be eliminated; far from it, actually. I'm saying that the frequency and the severity of the infractions needs to be taken into account when we're talking about punishment, otherwise you're asking people to be unrealistically saintly or quiet.

99% of the posters with less than 2 warnings is not an exception, it's the overwhelming majority. However, I'm not saying we won't implement a system to get strikes back. What I am saying is people need to hold themselves accountable for what they say and how they say it, regardless of who they may be. That isn't asking too much.

Ehhh...looking at the R&P forums, which is about where I live here, I can honestly say that this may be true for, say Off-topic, but I haven't observed that for those forums. With the exception of... maybe three people off the top of my head, everyone there has had at least a probation in the past.

I'm not saying that people shouldn't be held accountable. I'm saying that timeframe needs to be taken into account as well, especially considering some of the... heated debates that show up around some sections of the forums.

 

[Spinwhiz]

Spoiler

That is why we give 7 chances. Don't think I'm trying to push you, or anyone else, off either. I completely understand where you are coming from as we've had this discussion internally before we could even think about launching the new penalty system and updated rules (which has been months now). We just feel that we do give chances, 8 of them, and those who can not hold it together for The Escapist to have to tell someone 8 times that isn't how you behave is more than enough.

My problem with that is I've had half of those chances skipped over. I'm in the yellow and I've only ever had one post break the rules. Never got any warnings, it was straight to probation the first time. So now anything I do is automatically a suspension, and even though that was quite a long time ago I'm 3 away from a permanent ban.

I would say to send in an appeal then. They have the ability to read your plead for change and change it.

You aren't addressing the main issue of the punishment system. You're asking us to slip as little as possible, but, being human, it's going to happen. You're also stating that, if we slip up eight times, it's going to result in a permaban. This is where I feel that the system wouldn't work. While there are a few individuals who would be able to keep that by only posting maybe once or twice a week and stating something about a game or two, this essentially puts a lifetime limit on a particular account.

I'm sorry, mate. I understand that you're looking at a rewards system down the road if we play nice, but you really need to consider bringing such a system in sooner rather than later.

Actually, there are members who have been here for years and have over 10,000 posts who don't have a single warning. Over 99% of the current posters don't have more than 2 warnings. It IS possible and should be if everyone respects everyone else. The problem comes in when people's attitudes get in their way and they get "mad". This is a text based forum, if something pisses you off that much, walk away. Even better, report, ignore and walk away for a bit. There is no reason someone should be warned 8 times to be respectful and not call others names. In a debate setting, you would be disqualified, in real life you could be arrested for verbal assault.

If people really want to be able to say whatever they want, in any way they want, there are a lot of places on the internet to do so.

I call BS on those two statistics.

Yes, I'm sure there are a lot of users who have 10,000 posts and don't have a warning. That's clearly because they use the FG&RP section, which is barely modded at all. The majority of accounts on this site, I'm guessing, have less than 100 posts.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again - this system punishes older users more harshly. And, without health regeneration, that's a fact - more so, at least, than biased statistics.

Think whatever you like. The sooner you and others stop thinking we are against you and that we actually implemented changes based on community feedback (which is what people complained about before you remember), the sooner you will realize this is what is the best for the community overall. I'm not saying it's perfect but it is definitely a step in the right direction.

 

[Spinwhiz]

I find it rather unfair that there's absolutely no way to clear your record. Everybody slips up now and then. I'm usually the first to advocate harsh punishment for infractions, but this is ridiculous. With harsh punishments should come rewards for good behavior. So if you've not committed any infractions for a certain amount of time, your 'forum heath meter' should go back down.

Nobody should be able to slip up 8 times and being given more chances. If anyone can't learn how to be respectful and follow our rules after what is pretty much 8 infractions, they shouldn't be here.

Not even if the infractions are upwards of 6 months to year apart? Maybe even 2 years or more? 'Cause clearly if that's the case, that's not a person who's out to cause trouble; that's a person who just got a little carried away one day.

That is why we give 7 chances. Don't think I'm trying to push you, or anyone else, off either. I completely understand where you are coming from as we've had this discussion internally before we could even think about launching the new penalty system and updated rules (which has been months now). We just feel that we do give chances, 8 of them, and those who can not hold it together for The Escapist to have to tell someone 8 times that isn't how you behave is more than enough.

Ok, but what really gets me is I didn't get the four warnings and I'm already in the yellow zone. Under the old system I've received mod wrath, I think, 3 times, 1 probation, and 2 suspensions. I'm not going to pretend I didn't deserve them, 'cause I did. I let myself get carried away, what gets me is how does that translate into 5 warnings under the new system?
Edit: esp. since there's no chance for redemption.

Anyone with more than 2 probations (even suspensions) automatically received a yellow. Some people got lucky, having more than 2 suspensions and not getting a red automatically or even getting permabanned immediately. This would obviously be in bad taste, so we didn't do that. If you received 1 probation or less (warnings), you will be in the green. On a rare occasion where you had 4 or 5 warnings plus a probation, you will also be in the yellow probation category.

Well I just don't think that's right. I've only been in trouble with the mods 3 times and I'm already out 5 out of my 8 chances.

Then send in an appeal and see what happens.

Appeal?!?! With what? I said for each of those in infractions, I deserved what I got. I had broken the rules and I served my punishment peacefully and without complaint. Now it seems I'm being punished for them AGAIN however. I fail to see how that's justified.

You aren't being punished again, you are being held accountable for your actions, just as you were before. Did you think your previous infractions disappeared? They never disappear. We always use them to tell us what the next step in the penalty process is, regardless of time. Now we've just let you see it.

Yeah, I get that. But how does my 3 isolated incidents translate into 5 out of 8 chances before permaban?

Because 2 of those were suspensions. Anyone who received a suspension was automatically given a yellow and put on probation, which is technically a step down.

Yeah, well I just don't feel I'm being given that same treatment as everyone else.

Then send in an appeal with your views. That is what the appeal board is for.

 

[Trolldor]

Spoiler

That is why we give 7 chances. Don't think I'm trying to push you, or anyone else, off either. I completely understand where you are coming from as we've had this discussion internally before we could even think about launching the new penalty system and updated rules (which has been months now). We just feel that we do give chances, 8 of them, and those who can not hold it together for The Escapist to have to tell someone 8 times that isn't how you behave is more than enough.

My problem with that is I've had half of those chances skipped over. I'm in the yellow and I've only ever had one post break the rules. Never got any warnings, it was straight to probation the first time. So now anything I do is automatically a suspension, and even though that was quite a long time ago I'm 3 away from a permanent ban.

I would say to send in an appeal then. They have the ability to read your plead for change and change it.

You aren't addressing the main issue of the punishment system. You're asking us to slip as little as possible, but, being human, it's going to happen. You're also stating that, if we slip up eight times, it's going to result in a permaban. This is where I feel that the system wouldn't work. While there are a few individuals who would be able to keep that by only posting maybe once or twice a week and stating something about a game or two, this essentially puts a lifetime limit on a particular account.

I'm sorry, mate. I understand that you're looking at a rewards system down the road if we play nice, but you really need to consider bringing such a system in sooner rather than later.

Actually, there are members who have been here for years and have over 10,000 posts who don't have a single warning. Over 99% of the current posters don't have more than 2 warnings. It IS possible and should be if everyone respects everyone else. The problem comes in when people's attitudes get in their way and they get "mad". This is a text based forum, if something pisses you off that much, walk away. Even better, report, ignore and walk away for a bit. There is no reason someone should be warned 8 times to be respectful and not call others names. In a debate setting, you would be disqualified, in real life you could be arrested for verbal assault.

If people really want to be able to say whatever they want, in any way they want, there are a lot of places on the internet to do so.

But you don't have to attack people to recieve a warning. I've recieved probations for 'trolling' simply for expressing an opinion, a post without a single personal attack.
It was assumed I was trolling, and because of the misinformed accusations and assumptions, my "record" is tarnished because a mod decided that they didn't like what I wrote.


I've recieved a warning for complaining about the advertisements in the side panels, when there was nothing in the rules which forbade such action.

I used to moderate a forum. I know how it works.
That is why this whole permanent record thing is bullocks.
Even if, as you claim "less than 2%" (Which, by the by, we have no way of actually verifying) have more than 2 warnings, that's still a 2% where there is a margin for error.
That's still a 2% built partly on your mistakes, either individually or as a team.
That's a 2% who are going to pay for assumptions and presumptions by the mods and have no real form of redress because for the most part they have no idea what's wrong with their post beyond a single word justification.

Dismissing that 2% is just plain bad moderation.

 

[Susan Arendt]

I know it's hard to think of us as people, as opposed to some big faceless company, but we are.

Your website is comprised of only like 20-30 people isn't it?

For in-house folks, yep, that's about right.

 

[Spinwhiz]

Spoiler

That is why we give 7 chances. Don't think I'm trying to push you, or anyone else, off either. I completely understand where you are coming from as we've had this discussion internally before we could even think about launching the new penalty system and updated rules (which has been months now). We just feel that we do give chances, 8 of them, and those who can not hold it together for The Escapist to have to tell someone 8 times that isn't how you behave is more than enough.

My problem with that is I've had half of those chances skipped over. I'm in the yellow and I've only ever had one post break the rules. Never got any warnings, it was straight to probation the first time. So now anything I do is automatically a suspension, and even though that was quite a long time ago I'm 3 away from a permanent ban.

I would say to send in an appeal then. They have the ability to read your plead for change and change it.

You aren't addressing the main issue of the punishment system. You're asking us to slip as little as possible, but, being human, it's going to happen. You're also stating that, if we slip up eight times, it's going to result in a permaban. This is where I feel that the system wouldn't work. While there are a few individuals who would be able to keep that by only posting maybe once or twice a week and stating something about a game or two, this essentially puts a lifetime limit on a particular account.

I'm sorry, mate. I understand that you're looking at a rewards system down the road if we play nice, but you really need to consider bringing such a system in sooner rather than later.

Actually, there are members who have been here for years and have over 10,000 posts who don't have a single warning.

I wonder how many of those post in non controvercial formus vs those who are active in off topic and religion/politics?

Does it matter? People who debate improperly and call people names is what gets people in trouble in these forums (especially in the religion/politics), not where they post. If you are stating these is more feeling and personal connection to the topics in the off-topic and R/P forums, you are correct but that doesn't give anyone the right to be an asshole in them.

 

[Woodsey]

Spoiler

That is why we give 7 chances. Don't think I'm trying to push you, or anyone else, off either. I completely understand where you are coming from as we've had this discussion internally before we could even think about launching the new penalty system and updated rules (which has been months now). We just feel that we do give chances, 8 of them, and those who can not hold it together for The Escapist to have to tell someone 8 times that isn't how you behave is more than enough.

My problem with that is I've had half of those chances skipped over. I'm in the yellow and I've only ever had one post break the rules. Never got any warnings, it was straight to probation the first time. So now anything I do is automatically a suspension, and even though that was quite a long time ago I'm 3 away from a permanent ban.

I would say to send in an appeal then. They have the ability to read your plead for change and change it.

You aren't addressing the main issue of the punishment system. You're asking us to slip as little as possible, but, being human, it's going to happen. You're also stating that, if we slip up eight times, it's going to result in a permaban. This is where I feel that the system wouldn't work. While there are a few individuals who would be able to keep that by only posting maybe once or twice a week and stating something about a game or two, this essentially puts a lifetime limit on a particular account.

I'm sorry, mate. I understand that you're looking at a rewards system down the road if we play nice, but you really need to consider bringing such a system in sooner rather than later.

Actually, there are members who have been here for years and have over 10,000 posts who don't have a single warning. Over 99% of the current posters don't have more than 2 warnings. It IS possible and should be if everyone respects everyone else. The problem comes in when people's attitudes get in their way and they get "mad". This is a text based forum, if something pisses you off that much, walk away. Even better, report, ignore and walk away for a bit. There is no reason someone should be warned 8 times to be respectful and not call others names. In a debate setting, you would be disqualified, in real life you could be arrested for verbal assault.

If people really want to be able to say whatever they want, in any way they want, there are a lot of places on the internet to do so.

Speaking of warnings, are the warnings of old being counted against us? For low content posts, etc.?

Yes, everything transfers over, although nobody will be getting more than a probation.

But the warnings never meant anything beyond "be mindful of how you post", so how can they possibly transfer over?

And isn't it a little odd that "infractions" are being carried over from a few months back, when the rules - and even mods admitted to this - became so ambiguous that people were getting hit with probations and suspensions all over the place?

I don't know, I don't want to get all rose-tinted, but the whole thing was much better before the rules went through however many iterations. In the time this has all been happening (about the start of this year), I've been hit with more mod-wrath than in the 15 months I was on the site beforehand.

 

[Spinwhiz]

99% of the posters with less than 2 warnings is not an exception, it's the overwhelming majority. However, I'm not saying we won't implement a system to get strikes back. What I am saying is people need to hold themselves accountable for what they say and how they say it, regardless of who they may be. That isn't asking too much.

Why not start with a clean slate now so that people aren't retroactvely punished more harshly than the old rules called for?

Send in an appeal and see if they can help you out. We aren't going to clean slate people because, whether you like it or not, some people see that as "I have 8 more chance to be a jerk! muwhahahahaha"