Poll: New forum rules - Yay or Nay?

[Daedalus1942]

I find it rather unfair that there's absolutely no way to clear your record. Everybody slips up now and then. I'm usually the first to advocate harsh punishment for infractions, but this is ridiculous. With harsh punishments should come rewards for good behavior. So if you've not committed any infractions for a certain amount of time, your 'forum heath meter' should go back down.

Nobody should be able to slip up 8 times and being given more chances. If anyone can't learn how to be respectful and follow our rules after what is pretty much 8 infractions, they shouldn't be here.

This really isn't a fair, or a logical way to look at it.

Please understand that forum users who are here to stay intend to be here as long as they can. We are talking about great many years (decades?) depending on how long the actual escapist remains alive, and thousands even tens of thousands of posts.

Nobody is perfect, and I am 95% sure that a very considerable portion of the people who post on the forum on regular bases will find them self's banned at some point even if for no other reason that they aren't 100% careful 100% of the time.

Even if a user were only to say something even remotely bad in only 1 out of every thousand posts, it would still be enough to get him banned in a few years if he posts often.

The "8 chances are a lot" just really doesn't make sense when put into perspective. Not to mention that like others have already pointed out some warnings/bans aren't fair which makes it even worse.

I have started a new group to fight this.
If you feel people are being unfairly treated on these forums by moderators (as I have myself witnessed numerous times) then come join. Let's get the word out there.
Whatever happened to Freedom of speech, Fascist Escapist?
Come fight with me
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/groups/view/Escapists-against-the-machine
-Tabs<3-

 

[maddawg IAJI]

There are new rules? I will look into this matter.

EDIT:
So, I've always had problems with their don't be a jerk rule - when someone's an idiot, they're an idiot.

What worries me most is this:
"Similarly, posts including, advocating, or linking to illegal or adult material are a very quick way to end your time as part of The Escapist community. An example of these are:
Piracy
Ad Blockers
Illegal Drugs in the United States
Illegal Acts in the United States
Pedophilia
Pornography
Sexist, Racist or Perverted Remarks"
They can't include that? We can't mention piracy or illegal acts? Or porn? I doubt they mean it that way, but it gives them a lot of wiggle room that shouldn't be there. The way I'm reading this bans the entire political forum off the bat.

All political threads consist of those items up there only? Wow, I'm scared now.

Seriously though, we've always punished for those things, even before these rules were put into place. We've just made it easier to understand.

 

[bob1052]

4Your criminal record may go away, but anyone who knows you will know what you did, and like it or not, they will judge you for it.

Those in positions of authority handing out actual punishment rather than personal judgement will not judge you for it once it goes away.

 

[maddawg IAJI]

A user how posts nothing but an image doesn't do anything, but add the forum code in. If we allow image or video only posts, then we'll have to start allowing This posts in as well, because they share similarities. Both users found a quote they agree with and then just copy and paste it onto the board. We just content by how much of it is originally created by you, not by someone else.

Righto. Shan't be posting images anymore, just in case. Fair play.

I used to admin on an at-the-time popular gaming forum, and pretty much as soon as the 'reputation' mod was installed, anyone who wasn't in the cliques and got their rep nuked was pretty much dumped on from up high if they were ever in dispute with another member of 'good standing'.
It was arbitrary, but the mods just took the reputation values at... well, face value

Rereading that in a message made me realize how many spelling errors I had right there. I really shouldn't debate when I'm tired. As for pictures,they're fine, just make sure you have a fair bit of your own words to back it up.

 

[Throwitawaynow]

Not sure why other people had their probations turn their account yellow. I've recieved 2 probations, 1 that got removed. My account only lists 1 warning. Im guessing people got put on probation 4+ times.

OT: Middle, knowing that I am still eligible for the badge makes me happy. Seems a little strict though.

 

[Daedalus1942]

A dude in this thread put "test" to see the new rules I assume. He got a warning for it...CASE IN POINT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11

He would have gotten a warning before the update. Low-content posts have always been against the rules.

That I understand though personally I think "low content warnings" are absolutely asinine. My problem is: the poor guy was testing to READ YOUR NEW RULES and you gave him a warning for it.

And there is a stuck thread on the front page of this very forum with a link to it. He didn't need to post to view it. If he feels he was mistreated, he can send in an appeal.

He would have gotten a warning before the update. Low-content posts have always been against the rules.

My biggest complaint is that I'm being repunished for past infractions. Repunished, of course, in such a way that will NEVER go away. It can never be undone. This actually makes it one of the least forgiving set of laws/rules possible.

I'm pretty close to just throwing up my arms and 'leaving' over this.

Well its only been implemented because people don't seem to get the memo no matter how many warnings we set out. Even before I became a mod, I saw several users making low-content post after low-content post.

If you put enough effort into your posts and follow the rules then you won't have to worry about them.

That's a copout.
I was told by ZombiesInc and Greyfox that if I was good enough for long enough, I could eventually become a moderator myself, and yet.. now with this new health meter, that's just not going to happen.
Everyone will see my previous infractions from a year ago and judge me to be unfit as a moderator.
And people wonder why so many are leaving the Escapist.

-Tabs<3-

Because you got a probation? Really? Ultrajoe use to be banned and he became a mod. Don't you think you're jumping the gun a little?

I have previous suspensions too. That's my point. They're over a year old but it doesn't change the fact that people will just judge me and not even give me a chance.
What ever happened to the fair and decent Escapist I used to know?
-Tabs<3-

If someone judges you based on a health bar, then they have problems of their own. The Health bar isn't there to tell other users "Psst, this person is a trouble maker", its there to tell each user how many chances they have left.

It's still incredibly damning and I personally will not stand for it.
-Tabs<3-

Well, there is a chair right there. As for incredibly damning, you claim to have been fine for 4 months, it hasn't had a negative impact on you, so just stay on the right track.

See? This kind of smart alec frivolity is why the moderators always get it wrong. I've never thought you guys take your job seriously, and this just proves it.
I say I won't stand for it so you tell me to sit in a chair... Jesus...
-Tabs<3-

 

[Loop Stricken]

Rereading that in a message made me realize how many spelling errors I had right there. I really shouldn't debate when I'm tired. As for pictures,they're fine, just make sure you have a fair bit of your own words to back it up.

My point was that the funny colourful picture could sum up an otherwise-long-enough-in-word-form reply just fine, but since it did such a good job, it'd render itself unusable.

 

[CM156_v1legacy]

4Your criminal record may go away, but anyone who knows you will know what you did, and like it or not, they will judge you for it.

Those in positions of authority handing out actual punishment rather than personal judgement will not judge you for it once it goes away.

Come to think of it, does it go away on its own? I think we need an e-lawyer.
And even when applying for jobs, they ask you if you have ever been charged with a crime, so my hunch is no.

My point is that it is unreasonable to ever expect anything to ?go away? online. You post, you accept the consequences.

I admit I don?t care at this point because I haven?t been warned, but still guys, (wo)man up for your actions.

(No offense was intended by this post. Any offendedness is purely coincidental)

 

[MaxwellEdison]

There are new rules? I will look into this matter.

EDIT:
So, I've always had problems with their don't be a jerk rule - when someone's an idiot, they're an idiot.

What worries me most is this:
"Similarly, posts including, advocating, or linking to illegal or adult material are a very quick way to end your time as part of The Escapist community. An example of these are:
Piracy
Ad Blockers
Illegal Drugs in the United States
Illegal Acts in the United States
Pedophilia
Pornography
Sexist, Racist or Perverted Remarks"
They can't include that? We can't mention piracy or illegal acts? Or porn? I doubt they mean it that way, but it gives them a lot of wiggle room that shouldn't be there. The way I'm reading this bans the entire political forum off the bat.

All political threads consist of those items up there only? Wow, I'm scared now.

Seriously though, we've always punished for those things, even before these rules were put into place. We've just made it easier to understand.

By forum, I didn't mean every thread, I meant every person. And if you have, I'm sorta wondering why I've seen so many threads on piracy, and illegal acts in the US, including graffiti, gay marriage, drugs in general, and if you want to include "including" and not just "arguing for", any thread about someone getting arrested, since that obviously includes illegal acts. I've seen lots of threads relating to porn, as well.

 

[maddawg IAJI]

A dude in this thread put "test" to see the new rules I assume. He got a warning for it...CASE IN POINT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11

He would have gotten a warning before the update. Low-content posts have always been against the rules.

That I understand though personally I think "low content warnings" are absolutely asinine. My problem is: the poor guy was testing to READ YOUR NEW RULES and you gave him a warning for it.

And there is a stuck thread on the front page of this very forum with a link to it. He didn't need to post to view it. If he feels he was mistreated, he can send in an appeal.

He would have gotten a warning before the update. Low-content posts have always been against the rules.

My biggest complaint is that I'm being repunished for past infractions. Repunished, of course, in such a way that will NEVER go away. It can never be undone. This actually makes it one of the least forgiving set of laws/rules possible.

I'm pretty close to just throwing up my arms and 'leaving' over this.

Well its only been implemented because people don't seem to get the memo no matter how many warnings we set out. Even before I became a mod, I saw several users making low-content post after low-content post.

If you put enough effort into your posts and follow the rules then you won't have to worry about them.

That's a copout.
I was told by ZombiesInc and Greyfox that if I was good enough for long enough, I could eventually become a moderator myself, and yet.. now with this new health meter, that's just not going to happen.
Everyone will see my previous infractions from a year ago and judge me to be unfit as a moderator.
And people wonder why so many are leaving the Escapist.

-Tabs<3-

Because you got a probation? Really? Ultrajoe use to be banned and he became a mod. Don't you think you're jumping the gun a little?

I have previous suspensions too. That's my point. They're over a year old but it doesn't change the fact that people will just judge me and not even give me a chance.
What ever happened to the fair and decent Escapist I used to know?
-Tabs<3-

If someone judges you based on a health bar, then they have problems of their own. The Health bar isn't there to tell other users "Psst, this person is a trouble maker", its there to tell each user how many chances they have left.

It's still incredibly damning and I personally will not stand for it.
-Tabs<3-

Well, there is a chair right there. As for incredibly damning, you claim to have been fine for 4 months, it hasn't had a negative impact on you, so just stay on the right track.

See? This kind of smart alec frivolity is why the moderators always get it wrong. I've never thought you guys take your job seriously, and this just proves it.
I say I won't stand for it so you tell me to sit in a chair... Jesus...
-Tabs<3-

Fine. I'll note that in my book: "Always act like a machine. No joking. No fun."

I don't see how I just proved that I don't do my job correctly and I doubt you know the rest of the moderators enough to make that claim as well. So please, if you don't like me, that's fine, but don't talk like we just sit around and do nothing.

 

[Arctic Fox]

This system may seem harsh, but it looks like this is gravitating towards a last resort for the site to maintain civility in the forums. This isn't the first time the rules have been reformed. Everyone's status is still the same, we can just view it a little easier now. I've decided not to freak out about it.

 

[maddawg IAJI]

There are new rules? I will look into this matter.

EDIT:
So, I've always had problems with their don't be a jerk rule - when someone's an idiot, they're an idiot.

What worries me most is this:
"Similarly, posts including, advocating, or linking to illegal or adult material are a very quick way to end your time as part of The Escapist community. An example of these are:
Piracy
Ad Blockers
Illegal Drugs in the United States
Illegal Acts in the United States
Pedophilia
Pornography
Sexist, Racist or Perverted Remarks"
They can't include that? We can't mention piracy or illegal acts? Or porn? I doubt they mean it that way, but it gives them a lot of wiggle room that shouldn't be there. The way I'm reading this bans the entire political forum off the bat.

All political threads consist of those items up there only? Wow, I'm scared now.

Seriously though, we've always punished for those things, even before these rules were put into place. We've just made it easier to understand.

By forum, I didn't mean every thread, I meant every person. And if you have, I'm sorta wondering why I've seen so many threads on piracy, and illegal acts in the US, including graffiti, gay marriage, drugs in general, and if you want to include "including" and not just "arguing for", any thread about someone getting arrested, since that obviously includes illegal acts. I've seen lots of threads relating to porn, as well.

We don't want the admittance of such acts on the forum so allow me to go down the list.

Piracy and Ad Blocking are one of those subjects that are free to talk about, but against the rules to admit too. Like a Marijuana debate in the states, no cop is gonna arrest you if you favor the legalization of Marijuana, but you can bet he'll stop you if he catches you with the stuff.

Illegal Drug Use and Illegal Acts, see above.

Pedophilia is one of those subjects that has just given way into action. Its brought too much trouble to the forum in the past and Spinwhiz requested that we just lock them.

Pornography, well...just keep it off the forums. If you wanna talk about it, fine, I'm not gonna punish you for that unless told otherwise, but don't post pictures or videos of it.

And Sexist, racist remarks should be self-explanatory.

 

[Drakeneo]

I think that these new forum rules really piss me off and I shall not be posting on the Escapist again.

 

[strangemoose]

i find this quite interesting and the new rules aren't to bad

 

[maddawg IAJI]

Piracy and Ad Blocking are one of those subjects that are free to talk about, but against the rules to admit too. Like a Marijuana debate in the states, no cop is gonna arrest you if you favor the legalization of Marijuana, but you can bet he'll stop you if he catches you with the stuff.

Pretty much everyone who uses certain web browsers blocks ads. They have to pretend they're not?

I can't tell whose running them and who isn't just from looking at reports. I don't know if the staff members can, but for now, the only way I can punish someone for it is if they're stupid enough to post that they do.

 

[MaxwellEdison]

We don't want the admittance of such acts on the forum so allow me to go down the list.

Piracy and Ad Blocking are one of those subjects that are free to talk about, but against the rules to admit too. Like a Marijuana debate in the states, no cop is gonna arrest you if you favor the legalization of Marijuana, but you can bet he'll stop you if he catches you with the stuff.

Illegal Drug Use and Illegal Acts, see above.

Pedophilia is one of those subjects that has just given way into action. Its brought too much trouble to the forum in the past and Spinwhiz requested that we just lock them.

Pornography, well...just keep it off the forums. If you wanna talk about it, fine, I'm not gonna punish you for that unless told otherwise, but don't post pictures or videos of it.

And Sexist, racist remarks should be self-explanatory.

So like I originally said, (I think) I doubted you meant it how it was worded. Why can't that explanation be put in the rules, since it makes much more sense and is much more clear?

 

[WorldCritic]

I'm not really sure how I feel. I'm not really thrilled about the idea of a warning I got two years ago coming back to haunt me.

 

[Ham_authority95]

I quite liked them, but what about the "Illegal acts in the US"? I know that The Escapist is based in the US, and thus need to adhere to the laws, but why would they not include "Acts that are illegal in the country that you're posting from."?

 

[Labcoat Samurai]

Disclaimer: just came to this thread. It is huge. Consequently, I have not read it. Nevertheless, here are my two cents:

I voted no. This is not because I think the escapist has bad rules, necessarily (though some of them are, as described below). It's more because I think the new rules add nothing constructive to the community that we didn't already have with the old rules...

Personally, I think the new rules are a bit patronizing. They more or less summarize to "Don't be a jerk... also... don't stand between us and our revenue streams." The former has been an expectation on the Escapist for some time. The latter has never been explicitly stated to my knowledge...

Some of the specific rules seem altogether unnecessary. Like low content posts. If a person finds the perfect penny-arcade comic, onion article, or xkcd comic to go with a particular topic, I would like to see it, even if that person has nothing else in particular that they would like to say. This image and link posting rule decreases the quality of the comment threads, in my opinion. Other rules are excessively harsh, like the fact that you can never wipe away warnings. Someone at the Escapist doesn't believe people can change, evidently. Furthermore, some of the rules look like they could even go so far as to stifle intelligent discussion. We are heavily discouraged from saying negative things about The Escapist's advertisers, for example. Why do you think you *have* advertisers?

To the Escapist: Unlike you, I have no financial interest in your advertisers, and my interest in your site extends only as far as the forum community is worth my time. I imagine we both understand that this gives us potentially conflicting interests at times. I will not censor my opinions, nor will I significantly alter the manner in which I express them (perhaps it is a lucky coincidence that I generally do not like to be a jerk). If you wish to ban me, I accept that it is your right, and if that day comes, we may part amicably and I will find one of the the myriad other places on the internet where intelligent discussion may be found (no, seriously, there are some; I'm not making that up )