Poll: No-kids-allowed movement. Yay or nay?

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Kargathia

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newwiseman said:
Kargathia said:
It's really quite amusing to hear complaints that parents "should get their kids to behave". Just sit down, and ask your own mother how well-behaved you were age 6. Don't blame kids for doing what kids do, and are supposed to do.

On the whole though I can support places who feel that they'd make their customers happier by banning children. Variety and choice are good - as long as being child-unfriendly doesn't become the norm even more than it already is.
Whenever I misbehaved in public I got my ass spanked in front of everyone, wherever I happened to be, and it worked. Just sayin'.
I'm not even going to debate whether corporeal punishment actually works or not: that debate is pretty old, boring, and stale.

But I really recommend you try and spank your kid in a restaurant nowadays. It's a pretty solid way to invite Child Services for a chat.
 

Ralen-Sharr

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I agree that children can be annoying when they want to be, and I'd rather not deal with them when they turn that way.

However, I think the blame falls on the parents. When children are being disruptive (pulling a strangers hair should NEVER happen) boot both the kids and parents. If parents want to take the kids to a nice meal, fine. If the kids don't go nuts and bother everyone in the restaurant then great.

Parents should be teaching the kids to not f'k it up for everyone else - just my opinion.
 

ks1234

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UberaDpmn said:
Don't give that b.s. line about how "I guess you hates yourself when you were a child" or "you were a kid once too!"
Yes, theres plenty of child hate because kids are annoying. Yes, we were all once children but that doesn't change the fact that we aren't kids anymore and we shouldn't have to deal with their whiny crap. I personally, am all for this ban. Nowadays, kids are next to uncontrollable and CPS (child protective service) has basically made it to where people cannot discipline their kids (at least in America). So, the only foreseeable fix is to ban kids from "adult" establishments.
 

Kilyle

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Another thing: I remember a few instances growing up where getting to go to this or that was treated as a minor coming-of-age thing, e.g., "You're finally old/mature enough to come to a restaurant with us! (Don't screw it up or we'll put this off another couple years.)"

I remember being very impressed with the seriousness of it. This included a restaurant, a cross-country trip (old enough to go with Dad on one of his business trips by myself! I got to see Dick Tracy in theatres before it came to our state), and I don't know what else.

We treat pushing the shopping cart as a big deal for my nephews. If you're in charge of the cart, you have to watch where you're going, keep both hands on the bar, not crash into anything (or anyone), not go too fast, etc. We let them drive even through the wine aisle, while calling attention to the fact that a little accident here means $20-$100 we'd have to pay (they seem to take it seriously).

It helps that a lot of stores have gotten those small carts, which makes it less nerve-wracking for us to turn them over to a kid, as they're easier to control and it's easier to predict how wide a turn you have to make. Albertson's, last I checked, didn't have them, and they said it's because they didn't want kids using them... which ignores the benefits to adult shoppers (using a small cart even makes me feel lighter), and besides which has just made us give our business to the two stores in town that have small carts.

Which just shows the way that this SHOULD work: If a store isn't meeting your needs, you go to a different store, and stores make policies based on what sort of services they want to order what sort of clients. Give stores the freedom to do this, and the market should sort itself out.
 

jpoon

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I love this idea and I'm all for it! If companies in my town would do this I would shower them with my business. It would only affect me in a good way, I'd love to see it spread far and wide.
 

PandaPoster

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How about ban on people who are immature from public places? It doesn't seem that age is an issue. seems more like people being immature, albeit alot of immature people are under the age of 18, I have met many children who are more mature than alot of adults i have met, now for annoying kids, yeah i could see having them go through a maturity class where they learn they are not the center of attention and that they CAN NOT do whatever the hell they want.
 
Apr 24, 2008
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I've seen no evidence of this yet. I don't see a problem with having a few child free restaurants, but the people who expect to go out and not encounter children are complete assholes.

I feel like our local communities are too fractured. I'm not exactly old, but I can remember a time when people weren't so whiney about every little thing, so obsessed with their own wants and lifestyle aspirations. I can also remember when liking children didn't mean you were a likely paedophile. Also, I can remember when we used to support local businesses. We used to have dedicated fresh fruit & veg shops, bakeries...now we just have a feckin' Tesco's. "Screw the neighbours family owned business, I wanna save 50p on my shop today".

Walled off living and homogenised everything isn't progress.
 

jpoon

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PixelKing said:
No, because I'm a child.
I have rights same as anyone else.
Sorry to tell you this but no, you actually don't have the same rights as an adult. Eventually you will though, given enough time.
 

Sylveria

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haloman13 said:
This is an infringement on the freedom of both children and parents, you can't just demand people you don't like stay out of your favourite places, if I could do that there wouldn't be any furfags on the internet but you dont hear me bitching that they should have their internet connection severed........ scratch that I actually think that might work out great.
No is not an infringement of freedom, at least not any freedom guaranteed by the constitution or bill of rights. Any privately owned business has the right to refuse service at any time if it impedes their ability to offer the services they claim to offer or if it has a specific interest they are meeting by refusing service (safety, etc.). It's why clubs and bars can refuse people under 21 from even getting in the front door, why stores can say "no shirt, no shoes, no service", and why "black-tie" restaurants can exist.

Almost any business could easily claim that they are refusing to allow children into the establishment because they are a potentially disruptive presence and it prevents them from offering a suitable dining, theater, etc. experience to the other customers. Or they can refuse service because they are catering to a specific clientele (such as in the case of clubs). That clientele could be broadly defined as "individuals over the age of X." They can't say "We're refusing service to children because we hate children," however.
 

Kilyle

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xmbts said:
Children become full citizens, do you really want to show then that segregation is acceptable?
Segregation because you've acted up is absolutely acceptable, and I have no problem with it.

Segregation based on age is a little more iffy, but I don't think it's anywhere near as bad as segregation by race. There are carnival rides where you have to be of a certain height to ride them, for safety reasons; do you think kids make the jump to "racial segregation is okay" based on that?

In fact, the inversion exists: Places a kid can only play if he's under age X (McDonalds Playland used to be like this). I think kids generally understand that age can open some doors and close others. It's part of growing up.

I like this sign I got from a friend: CHILDREN LEFT UNATTENDED WILL BE SOLD AS SLAVES. It's funny and makes a good point without being too dry :)
 

Username Redacted

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GenericAmerican said:
No, forcing the parents to hire a expensive sitter, or forcing one to stay home at all times isn't right. (and isn't fun)

How about we force them to raise their children right?
As a point, this movement wouldn't have so much momentum if people where raising their children "right". That said, it's too late. Too many interrupted movies. Too many ruined dinners. Too many flights made worse by screaming children.

"An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure"

That is to say if more parents over the last few years had been more observant and respectful of others then they wouldn't be dealing with the backlash they're currently facing.
 

Sylveria

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Morskie said:
As someone who had surgery to prevent producing any children of my own, I certainly don't want to spend time around other people's children.
And you, sir or madam, deserve a medal.
 

Epona

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Ralen-Sharr said:
I agree that children can be annoying when they want to be, and I'd rather not deal with them when they turn that way.

However, I think the blame falls on the parents. When children are being disruptive (pulling a strangers hair should NEVER happen) boot both the kids and parents. If parents want to take the kids to a nice meal, fine. If the kids don't go nuts and bother everyone in the restaurant then great.

Parents should be teaching the kids to not f'k it up for everyone else - just my opinion.
You can blame parents but it will do you no good, parents hands have been tied and in a public place there is no politically correct punishment as you cant' put them in time out, you can't spank them and talking to them like some kind of therapist is exactly what people are complaining about when they say parents LET the kids act up.

Kids have always misbehaved but parents today have fewer options to control them so the misbehaving is getting worse.

Next time you see a kid misbehaving in public and you begin to blame the parents, think about how you would react if that parent spanked the kid. Would you then blame the parent for disciplining their kid? Would you call Child Protective Services? Are you part of the problem with kids misbehaving?
 

Seives-Sliver

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God forbid I become a parent, and even then, god forbid I have a vacation, but if I did have one I would probably be forced to bring my child with me. This law would basicly say 'You have the gall to try and be a good parent by having your child with you?' it may just exclude babies and whatnot from certain places, but when someone wants a vacation, saying no to them because they reproduced is a bad business plan in the long term. Because chances are the parents would probably never want to go to a hotel or use an airplane that won't allow their children, meaning for the next 1-13/14 years they will no be flying with them, or staying in the hotel. They'll be cutting their profits down, and it'd be a big cycle, with only rich people who haven't reproduced will be the only ones interested in luxury.
 

Thaius

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I'm sorry, but no. No a thousand times over. Can you imagine a childhood never going to the theater, or to restaurants? Can you imagine the trouble for both a child and a parent if children weren't allowed on a plane? I can't believe people are hating on kids this much; without them, the entire human race dies out. I think you can handle a little inconvenience now and again for the sake of raising them correctly, you selfish pricks.
 

Sylveria

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GenericAmerican said:
No, forcing the parents to hire a expensive sitter, or forcing one to stay home at all times isn't right. (and isn't fun)

How about we force them to raise their children right?
As the old saying goes "You can't tell me how to raise my kid!" This statement is usually followed by someone swinging a beer bottle or falling off a stool. Besides, they let the TV raise their kid the rest of the day, why not while they're out to. And no one is forcing these people to stay home. Playgrounds, parks, drive ins, amusement parks, etc, all this crap exists for families to go to. Take the kids there, where they belong and no one cares how obnoxious they are.
 

Vault Citizen

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I'd love to see how many of the anti-kids people in this topic feel when they have children of their own, especially when they want a break from being stuck at home or work all day and want to go have some fun and can't get a babysitter. Or when they need to get food or can't find anyone to watch their child (children) so have to take them along.
 

xmbts

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Kilyle said:
xmbts said:
Children become full citizens, do you really want to show then that segregation is acceptable?
Segregation because you've acted up is absolutely acceptable, and I have no problem with it.

Segregation based on age is a little more iffy, but I don't think it's anywhere near as bad as segregation by race. There are carnival rides where you have to be of a certain height to ride them, for safety reasons; do you think kids make the jump to "racial segregation is okay" based on that?

In fact, the inversion exists: Places a kid can only play if he's under age X (McDonalds Playland used to be like this). I think kids generally understand that age can open some doors and close others. It's part of growing up.

I like this sign I got from a friend: CHILDREN LEFT UNATTENDED WILL BE SOLD AS SLAVES. It's funny and makes a good point without being too dry :)
Segregation is segregation just because one instance of it causes you to feel racial guilt doesn't make the others better.

Restaurants and Cinemas and airplanes aren't unsafe for children to be in. A ban like this only benefits people who are so ill tempered and maladjusted that their entire day is ruined by a simple tantrum. I'm not saying it isn't annoying and I'm not saying kids shouldn't behave themselves but is it really such a big deal that you need to bar them from public places and put another burden onto parents?