Poll: Old Marvel vs. New Marvel

[Fox12]

No love for the old films, huh? I kind of preferred them overall. They always seemed willing to take a few risks, and commentate on real world issues. They seemed happy to reveal their characters humanity a little. Peter almost murdering Uncle Ben's killer in the first spider man comes to mind. The new films feel to bland, too safe. And I hate having a cinematic universe. Every film feels like its just setting up the next. Nothing ever feels resolved.

Oh I thought we were talking about the comics.

Bummer, I had a lot to say too.

After finishing Civil War II and coming into this thread thinking the same as you, I am considering making a comic centered thread. Might wait till this one does down though.

You may as well start one before someone else does.

 

[Samtemdo8_v1legacy]

I prefer the modern ones, mostly because they're willing to be goofy and don't seem as afraid of/embarrassed by their comic book origins.

I'm obviously speaking in generalities here but 90s and early 2000s comic book movies were all trying to be serious, and to be taken seriously. They didn't want any elements that were too fantastical or which they thought that audiences wouldn't "get" and the ones which did try to be fantastical tended to end up being over-complicated poorly written messes.

Yes, Raimi's Spiderman movies hold up (the first 2 at least), as do the first 2 X-men movies, but I'd say out of that generation of marvel superhero movies that's all that holds up. Compare that to the movies that Marvel is making in-house, and while a lot of those movies aren't stellar, there isn't a single one that I would consider straight up bad the way I would something like DareDevil, Fantastic 4, or Ang Lee's Hulk. Even Thor 2 and Iron Man 2, what I would consider the worst of Marvel's line-up is a hell of a lot more watchable than X-men 3.

I think the big problem now is going to be over-saturation of the market. There's too many Superhero movies coming out, and when Superheros keep popping up in each other's movies it makes each appearance less and less special.

The Avengers was an amazing event for cinema because it was something that had never really been done before. Interweaving a bunch of different stories, characters, visuals, and time periods into one cohesive whole was really unique and cool. It gets much less unique and much more mundane each time you do it.

But now that it embraced its goofballness, I cannot take it seriously, I prefer the 90s/2000s comics because they had depth, they gave me a reason to care about the charcaters.

Comics like Kingdom Come were masterpieces because they took themselves seriously.

 

[Cicada 5]

I like the ones with the unified universe. Seriously, I like having one thing matter to the next. It is part of why I dont give a fuck about say, Final Fantasy, and like Elder Scrolls. I like that the previous ones matter atleast a little to the next.

We're getting a Thor, Hulk, Dr.Strange team-up movie, how is that not a good thing?

It's not automatically a good thing by itself. It's all in the execution

 

[Saelune]

I like the ones with the unified universe. Seriously, I like having one thing matter to the next. It is part of why I dont give a fuck about say, Final Fantasy, and like Elder Scrolls. I like that the previous ones matter atleast a little to the next.

We're getting a Thor, Hulk, Dr.Strange team-up movie, how is that not a good thing?

It's not automatically a good thing by itself. It's all in the execution

Eh, I think it will be alot of fun. Thor and Hulk together in most things usually is pretty funny, and I really liked how Doctor Strange turned out, and this is a weird team-up all things considered.

 

[Metalix Knightmare]

Glad I looked at that first post. New movies for sure. Old stuff has some greats, don't get me wrong, but it also had some REALLY bad stinkers.

I'm hard pressed to think of any new Marvel movie that reached the sheer suck of the Fantastic 4 Movies.

 

[Kenbo Slice]

I prefer the modern ones, mostly because they're willing to be goofy and don't seem as afraid of/embarrassed by their comic book origins.

I'm obviously speaking in generalities here but 90s and early 2000s comic book movies were all trying to be serious, and to be taken seriously. They didn't want any elements that were too fantastical or which they thought that audiences wouldn't "get" and the ones which did try to be fantastical tended to end up being over-complicated poorly written messes.

Yes, Raimi's Spiderman movies hold up (the first 2 at least), as do the first 2 X-men movies, but I'd say out of that generation of marvel superhero movies that's all that holds up. Compare that to the movies that Marvel is making in-house, and while a lot of those movies aren't stellar, there isn't a single one that I would consider straight up bad the way I would something like DareDevil, Fantastic 4, or Ang Lee's Hulk. Even Thor 2 and Iron Man 2, what I would consider the worst of Marvel's line-up is a hell of a lot more watchable than X-men 3.

I think the big problem now is going to be over-saturation of the market. There's too many Superhero movies coming out, and when Superheros keep popping up in each other's movies it makes each appearance less and less special.

The Avengers was an amazing event for cinema because it was something that had never really been done before. Interweaving a bunch of different stories, characters, visuals, and time periods into one cohesive whole was really unique and cool. It gets much less unique and much more mundane each time you do it.

But now that it embraced its goofballness, I cannot take it seriously, I prefer the 90s/2000s comics because they had depth, they gave me a reason to care about the charcaters.

Comics like Kingdom Come were masterpieces because they took themselves seriously.

Because 90's comics were the epitome of good. 90's had a bunch of crap.

 

[PsychicTaco115]

I miss the old Marvel, straight from the Go Marvel
Chop up the soul Marvel, set on their goals Marvel
I hate the new Marvel, the bad mood Marvel
The always rude Marvel, spaz in the news Marvel
I miss the sweet Marvel, chop up the beats Marvel
I gotta say, at that time I'd like to meet Marvel
See, I invented Marvel, it wasn't any Marvels
And now I look and look around and there's so many Marvels
I used to love Marvel, I used to love Marvel
I even had all the merch, I thought I was Marvel
What if Marvel made a movie about Marvel
Called "I Miss The Old Marvel"? Man, that'd be so Marvel
That's all it was Marvel, we still love Marvel
And I love you like Marvel loves money

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

I like the ones with the unified universe. Seriously, I like having one thing matter to the next. It is part of why I dont give a fuck about say, Final Fantasy, and like Elder Scrolls. I like that the previous ones matter atleast a little to the next.

We're getting a Thor, Hulk, Dr.Strange team-up movie, how is that not a good thing?

It's not automatically a good thing by itself. It's all in the execution

Eh, I think it will be alot of fun. Thor and Hulk together in most things usually is pretty funny, and I really liked how Doctor Strange turned out, and this is a weird team-up all things considered.

They're one Silver Surfer short of having the classic Defenders line-up.

No reason that shouldn't be great.

 

[Saelune]

I like the ones with the unified universe. Seriously, I like having one thing matter to the next. It is part of why I dont give a fuck about say, Final Fantasy, and like Elder Scrolls. I like that the previous ones matter atleast a little to the next.

We're getting a Thor, Hulk, Dr.Strange team-up movie, how is that not a good thing?

It's not automatically a good thing by itself. It's all in the execution

Eh, I think it will be alot of fun. Thor and Hulk together in most things usually is pretty funny, and I really liked how Doctor Strange turned out, and this is a weird team-up all things considered.

They're one Silver Surfer short of having the classic Defenders line-up.

No reason that shouldn't be great.

I know Im excited, but I unapologetically love the MCU and want it to keep going. Even when I nitpick I still ultimately (badumtish) love them.

 

[Samtemdo8_v1legacy]

I prefer the modern ones, mostly because they're willing to be goofy and don't seem as afraid of/embarrassed by their comic book origins.

I'm obviously speaking in generalities here but 90s and early 2000s comic book movies were all trying to be serious, and to be taken seriously. They didn't want any elements that were too fantastical or which they thought that audiences wouldn't "get" and the ones which did try to be fantastical tended to end up being over-complicated poorly written messes.

Yes, Raimi's Spiderman movies hold up (the first 2 at least), as do the first 2 X-men movies, but I'd say out of that generation of marvel superhero movies that's all that holds up. Compare that to the movies that Marvel is making in-house, and while a lot of those movies aren't stellar, there isn't a single one that I would consider straight up bad the way I would something like DareDevil, Fantastic 4, or Ang Lee's Hulk. Even Thor 2 and Iron Man 2, what I would consider the worst of Marvel's line-up is a hell of a lot more watchable than X-men 3.

I think the big problem now is going to be over-saturation of the market. There's too many Superhero movies coming out, and when Superheros keep popping up in each other's movies it makes each appearance less and less special.

The Avengers was an amazing event for cinema because it was something that had never really been done before. Interweaving a bunch of different stories, characters, visuals, and time periods into one cohesive whole was really unique and cool. It gets much less unique and much more mundane each time you do it.

But now that it embraced its goofballness, I cannot take it seriously, I prefer the 90s/2000s comics because they had depth, they gave me a reason to care about the charcaters.

Comics like Kingdom Come were masterpieces because they took themselves seriously.

Because 90's comics were the epitome of good. 90's had a bunch of crap.

Mabye for Marvel. But DC hasn't made a noticably bad comic, and everyone likes to bring up Death of Superman, but I read it and thought it was ok.

Also name a good Comic story arc from the 50s and 60s that was not an origin/introduction story?

 

[Hawki]

We're getting a Thor, Hulk, Dr.Strange team-up movie, how is that not a good thing?

I can easily explain how it might not be - same principle applies to any crossover, but I'll explain it in this context.

Speaking personally about the three characters - only bit of Hulk I've seen in the MCU is The Avengers, which is another case of "meh" for me. Don't really care about his character, I found Aang Lee's Hulk film mildly interesting, if flawed, but that's about it. So, no, I don't really care about The Hulk.

Next up is Thor, who I've seen in his first film and The Avengers. The Avengers, for me, is meh. Thor, for me, is not only meh, but worse, just plain boring. So, no, I don't care about Thor either.

Third point is Doctor Strange, whose film I actually like. One of three MCU films I can call "good" and it does stand as my favorite. I can't say I love the film (it didn't even get into my top 20 films for 2016), but if a Doctor Strange sequel was made, then I wouldn't mind seeing it. I'd probably enjoy it as well. So, yes, I like Doctor Strange.

Which brings us to the subject of a crossover, where two of the three characters are ones I don't have any interest in. Now, I could happily skip it, because Doctor Strange in of himself isn't enough to make me feel compelled to see it - in fact, the most interesting thing Thor: Ragnarok has going for it is that it's directed by Taika Cohen, who delivered Hunt for the Wilderpeople last year, a film that made it into my top 10. But what happens when a hypothetical Doctor Strange 2 rolls around, where, going by the MCU, I'd be expected to have watched Thor: Ragnarok? Looking at Civil War, a film I saw more by chance than anything else (long story), you have no idea how surreal an experience it was when Scott Lang was dumped out of the car and I had no idea who this character was, and didn't have any idea who he was until he was Ant-Man, and even then it was a case of "oh, it's that guy from that film I never saw, and didn't think I'd have to have seen in a movie that isn't called Ant-Man."

So, fine, if I want to enjoy a hypothetical Doctor Strange 2, then I have to see Thor: Ragnarok. But if I'm to see Thor: Ragnarok, then I'd need to see Thor 2 and Age of Ultron, and possibly even The Hulk. I can sort of forgive the Avengers for not spending any time getting you up to speed as to who these characters are, since it's billed explicitly as a crossover. What's harder to forgive is the prospect of watching numerous movies that I wouldn't want to watch under normal circumstances to get up to speed on a movie that I might enjoy seeing under normal circumstances if it wasn't tied into a giant cinematic universe where I'm only interested in a fraction of what it offers. Great for people who do enjoy the full package, not so great for people who want to be more selective.

Course this is hypothetical, but it does reinforce why I voted for "old Marvel." Because at the very least, I didn't need to watch the X-Men movies to understand what was going on in Spider-Man.

 

[Kenbo Slice]

I prefer the modern ones, mostly because they're willing to be goofy and don't seem as afraid of/embarrassed by their comic book origins.

I'm obviously speaking in generalities here but 90s and early 2000s comic book movies were all trying to be serious, and to be taken seriously. They didn't want any elements that were too fantastical or which they thought that audiences wouldn't "get" and the ones which did try to be fantastical tended to end up being over-complicated poorly written messes.

Yes, Raimi's Spiderman movies hold up (the first 2 at least), as do the first 2 X-men movies, but I'd say out of that generation of marvel superhero movies that's all that holds up. Compare that to the movies that Marvel is making in-house, and while a lot of those movies aren't stellar, there isn't a single one that I would consider straight up bad the way I would something like DareDevil, Fantastic 4, or Ang Lee's Hulk. Even Thor 2 and Iron Man 2, what I would consider the worst of Marvel's line-up is a hell of a lot more watchable than X-men 3.

I think the big problem now is going to be over-saturation of the market. There's too many Superhero movies coming out, and when Superheros keep popping up in each other's movies it makes each appearance less and less special.

The Avengers was an amazing event for cinema because it was something that had never really been done before. Interweaving a bunch of different stories, characters, visuals, and time periods into one cohesive whole was really unique and cool. It gets much less unique and much more mundane each time you do it.

But now that it embraced its goofballness, I cannot take it seriously, I prefer the 90s/2000s comics because they had depth, they gave me a reason to care about the charcaters.

Comics like Kingdom Come were masterpieces because they took themselves seriously.

Because 90's comics were the epitome of good. 90's had a bunch of crap.

Mabye for Marvel. But DC hasn't made a noticably bad comic, and everyone likes to bring up Death of Superman, but I read it and thought it was ok.

Also name a good Comic story arc from the 50s and 60s that was not an origin/introduction story?

Extreme Justice, The stupid Guy Gardner Way of the Warrior book, Bloodwynd, and Azrael are a few of the poor DC outputs of the 90's.

Most of Marvels output beyond origin stories were good in the 60's such as X-men, Spider-Man and Fantastic Four. Never read much DC from the 60s.

 

[Samtemdo8_v1legacy]

I prefer the modern ones, mostly because they're willing to be goofy and don't seem as afraid of/embarrassed by their comic book origins.

I'm obviously speaking in generalities here but 90s and early 2000s comic book movies were all trying to be serious, and to be taken seriously. They didn't want any elements that were too fantastical or which they thought that audiences wouldn't "get" and the ones which did try to be fantastical tended to end up being over-complicated poorly written messes.

Yes, Raimi's Spiderman movies hold up (the first 2 at least), as do the first 2 X-men movies, but I'd say out of that generation of marvel superhero movies that's all that holds up. Compare that to the movies that Marvel is making in-house, and while a lot of those movies aren't stellar, there isn't a single one that I would consider straight up bad the way I would something like DareDevil, Fantastic 4, or Ang Lee's Hulk. Even Thor 2 and Iron Man 2, what I would consider the worst of Marvel's line-up is a hell of a lot more watchable than X-men 3.

I think the big problem now is going to be over-saturation of the market. There's too many Superhero movies coming out, and when Superheros keep popping up in each other's movies it makes each appearance less and less special.

The Avengers was an amazing event for cinema because it was something that had never really been done before. Interweaving a bunch of different stories, characters, visuals, and time periods into one cohesive whole was really unique and cool. It gets much less unique and much more mundane each time you do it.

X-Men was in the 60s?

But now that it embraced its goofballness, I cannot take it seriously, I prefer the 90s/2000s comics because they had depth, they gave me a reason to care about the charcaters.

Comics like Kingdom Come were masterpieces because they took themselves seriously.

Because 90's comics were the epitome of good. 90's had a bunch of crap.

Mabye for Marvel. But DC hasn't made a noticably bad comic, and everyone likes to bring up Death of Superman, but I read it and thought it was ok.

Also name a good Comic story arc from the 50s and 60s that was not an origin/introduction story?

Extreme Justice, The stupid Guy Gardner Way of the Warrior book, Bloodwynd, and Azrael are a few of the poor DC outputs of the 90's.

Most of Marvels output beyond origin stories were good in the 60's such as X-men, Spider-Man and Fantastic Four. Never read much DC from the 60s.

Because 60s DC was awful, it utterly heeded the Comics Code Authority.

You wanna know why people think Marvel's characters have more depth? That is why because DC made thier characters wholly for kids.

For example in the 60s one guy said DC characters acted like the Reader's Parents, Marvel's characters acted like the Reader.

 

[Saelune]

We're getting a Thor, Hulk, Dr.Strange team-up movie, how is that not a good thing?

I can easily explain how it might not be - same principle applies to any crossover, but I'll explain it in this context.

Speaking personally about the three characters - only bit of Hulk I've seen in the MCU is The Avengers, which is another case of "meh" for me. Don't really care about his character, I found Aang Lee's Hulk film mildly interesting, if flawed, but that's about it. So, no, I don't really care about The Hulk.

Next up is Thor, who I've seen in his first film and The Avengers. The Avengers, for me, is meh. Thor, for me, is not only meh, but worse, just plain boring. So, no, I don't care about Thor either.

Third point is Doctor Strange, whose film I actually like. One of three MCU films I can call "good" and it does stand as my favorite. I can't say I love the film (it didn't even get into my top 20 films for 2016), but if a Doctor Strange sequel was made, then I wouldn't mind seeing it. I'd probably enjoy it as well. So, yes, I like Doctor Strange.

Which brings us to the subject of a crossover, where two of the three characters are ones I don't have any interest in. Now, I could happily skip it, because Doctor Strange in of himself isn't enough to make me feel compelled to see it - in fact, the most interesting thing Thor: Ragnarok has going for it is that it's directed by Taika Cohen, who delivered Hunt for the Wilderpeople last year, a film that made it into my top 10. But what happens when a hypothetical Doctor Strange 2 rolls around, where, going by the MCU, I'd be expected to have watched Thor: Ragnarok? Looking at Civil War, a film I saw more by chance than anything else (long story), you have no idea how surreal an experience it was when Scott Lang was dumped out of the car and I had no idea who this character was, and didn't have any idea who he was until he was Ant-Man, and even then it was a case of "oh, it's that guy from that film I never saw, and didn't think I'd have to have seen in a movie that isn't called Ant-Man."

So, fine, if I want to enjoy a hypothetical Doctor Strange 2, then I have to see Thor: Ragnarok. But if I'm to see Thor: Ragnarok, then I'd need to see Thor 2 and Age of Ultron, and possibly even The Hulk. I can sort of forgive the Avengers for not spending any time getting you up to speed as to who these characters are, since it's billed explicitly as a crossover. What's harder to forgive is the prospect of watching numerous movies that I wouldn't want to watch under normal circumstances to get up to speed on a movie that I might enjoy seeing under normal circumstances if it wasn't tied into a giant cinematic universe where I'm only interested in a fraction of what it offers. Great for people who do enjoy the full package, not so great for people who want to be more selective.

Course this is hypothetical, but it does reinforce why I voted for "old Marvel." Because at the very least, I didn't need to watch the X-Men movies to understand what was going on in Spider-Man.

Ya know the Avengers? How they are like a big deal? Did you know they started by combining a bunch of heroes considered otherwise meh? Many teams are greater than the sum of their parts.

Hulk is usually pretty fun in the Avengers films, but all his individual films were pretty lame.

And isnt that comics in general? I like finding out of new characters. The MCU has made me realize how many characters I am actually not familiar with, but made it fun to get to know them more. I mean, I vaguely knew Daredevil, but it was his Netflix show that made me really like him. Even Captain America did not truyl resonate with me until his movies. Now I place him as one of my top favorite Marvel characters.

And isnt over explaining everyone considered annoying? Hell, many characters I later find out are actually from the comics and not new at all, and thats fun more me. The guy that Captain America fights at the start of Winter Soldier?


But I like MCU to the point where I like getting to know characters I normally care little about.