Poll: Omission

[Seldon2639]

This is related to another thread, but the basic question is this:

Is not saying something truthful the same as lying?

Is honesty just not saying things which are untrue, but saying everything which is true? If we want to not lie, must we tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?

Yes, it'd be pretty easy to just answer with "yes" or "no", but I'd like to see if we could have a mature, thoughtful, discussion about it, so please share *why* you feel omission is or isn't really lying.

 

[Specter_]

Lie - An intentionally false statement; a falsehood.

Lying is telling something which is not true.
Not telling anything is... well, not telling anything, neither true nor false.

Thus, while omission can be used the same way as a lie, e.g. to evade a punishment, it does not equal lying.

 

[Pigeon_Grenade]

well... i suppose it differs from person to person, and Situation

 

[Lyiat]

Omission has never, ever been officially labeled as lying. Is it deceitful? Yes. Does it make you look bad? Yes. Is it immoral? Yes. But are you outright lying? Nope.

 

[joystickjunki3]

It's really only a half-lie. Like a half-truth.

 

[Graustein]

Just as with outright falsehoods, the morality and severity of an omission varies by circumstance. However, I wouldn't classify it as lying. Under the right circumstances, it's just as bad or worse, and it is definitely dishonest. If used to mislead, an omission is just as bad as an outright lie, and can often be more effective.

 

[Labyrinth]

There is the phrase "Lying by omission", but as Grau said, it's contextual as to whether such a thing is as severe as an outright falsehood.

Omission itself is a very important force. In art, writing and media it's known as silences. These can be the omission of an alternate point of view, omission of particular facts, omission of the petty little details which, when added together, change the overall meaning of a thing. Silences are particularly common when it comes to politics and social examination.

 

[RavingPenguin]

Omission has never, ever been officially labeled as lying. Is it deceitful? Yes. Does it make you look bad? Yes. Is it immoral? Yes. But are you outright lying? Nope.

lying = decietful
omission = decietful
therefore omission = lying

EDIT: Im gonna get alot of crap for this, lol

 

[Steeveeo]

Playing with the human mind is fun. Omitting certain facts and choosing your words in a vague way, then letting the "target" fill in the blanks with what they think you mean isn't deceiving them, its letting them deceive themselves.

 

[Ophiuchus]

Omission has never, ever been officially labeled as lying. Is it deceitful? Yes. Does it make you look bad? Yes. Is it immoral? Yes. But are you outright lying? Nope.

lying = decietful
omission = decietful
therefore omission = lying

Carrot = vegetable
Cabbage = vegetable
Therefore, carrot = cabbage?

Just sayin'.

I don't know what more I have to add that hasn't already been said. It depends on the severity, sure it's deceitful and generally a bit shitty if done to allow something to happen that wouldn't if the full truth were told (say, a guy 'forgets to mention' his wife when he's with another woman), but it's not necessarily the same as outright lying.

 

[Labyrinth]

Oh, my apologies. I forgot to mention that some omissions are entirely subconscious. Is that lying? To my view, no. "Lie" implies deliberate, whether malicious or not.

 

[Meta Like That]

Playing with the human mind is fun. Omitting certain facts and choosing your words in a vague way, then letting the "target" fill in the blanks with what they think you mean isn't deceiving them, its letting them deceive themselves.

That's the most retarded thing I've heard today...

It's not truth and it's not lying. It's manipulation or propaganda.

 

[Beefcakes]

Oh, my apologies. I forgot to mention that some omissions are entirely subconscious. Is that lying? To my view, no. "Lie" implies deliberate, whether malicious or not.

I'm thinking thats more of an unintentional bias more than lie, which you'll see is common in newspaper articles and news stories
Yay for High School English!

 

[Sweep117]

I figure that if you purposely omitt information in the intention of misleading someone then you may as well consider it lying. You're still feeding them misinformation. One piece of information can change how someone acts toward other information.

If the omission is due to a lack of information on your part, it can't be lying. How can you "leave out" information if you don't know it to begin with? It's misleading, yes, but not due to a concious thought.

 

[Yoshimota]

Omission has never, ever been officially labeled as lying. Is it deceitful? Yes. Does it make you look bad? Yes. Is it immoral? Yes. But are you outright lying? Nope.

lying = decietful
omission = decietful
therefore omission = lying

Carrot = vegetable
Cabbage = vegetable
Therefore, carrot = cabbage?

Just sayin'.

I don't know what more I have to add that hasn't already been said. It depends on the severity, sure it's deceitful and generally a bit shitty if done to allow something to happen that wouldn't if the full truth were told (say, a guy 'forgets to mention' his wife when he's with another woman), but it's not necessarily the same as outright lying.

Ok, that would definitely have to be the funniest thing I've heard for a long time, haha, and I'd have to agree with you, I don't think omission is lying, I just think your leaving out certain parts of the truth that may, or may not, be convenient toward you or your well being.

Eg. 1. "Are you having an affair?" - "No." = lying
2. "Are you having an affair?" - "I'm not having an affair with *that* woman" = Omission

Although you may be having an affair, in example 2. your not lying(because she may be talking about a different woman), but you sure as hell aren't telling the truth.

 

[Talendra]

Purposely omitting the truth is not lying, but it is just as bad. Kind of in the same way stabbing somebody is not the same as shooting them, all be it on a slightly less violent note.

 

[beddo]

It really depends how the omission is made. It is in effect lying if the omission is purposefully made to distort the truth.

It is not lying if it is information that does not affect the truth of the statement or situation.

It is also not a lie if the truth is a private matter as the question does not necessarily deserve an answer.

 

[Legion]

Just something I feel I should point out as most people are taking extremes.

If somebody asks the question "what did you do today?" then the chances are they are not expecting to know everything you did. If I omit such small details like what times I used the bathroom and how long I showered for then I personally do not consider myself a liar or someone who is just as bad as one.

lying = decietful
omission = decietful
therefore omission = lying

EDIT: Im gonna get alot of crap for this, lol

Getting pins and needles = painful
Getting shot = painful
Therefore getting pins and needles = being shot

see the flaw in logic?

 

[cuddly_tomato]

Omission has never, ever been officially labeled as lying. Is it deceitful? Yes. Does it make you look bad? Yes. Is it immoral? Yes. But are you outright lying? Nope.

lying = decietful
omission = decietful
therefore omission = lying

EDIT: Im gonna get alot of crap for this, lol

Well I will take some of that crap, because I agree wholeheartedly.

Lying is "active" dishonesty.

Omission is a "passive" dishonesty.

Neither is any more or less acceptable.

 

[MrGFunk]

so please share *why* you feel omission is or isn't really lying.

I don't think it's lying unless you're asked a direct question and the answer is avoided for deceit.

I usually disclose everything as this is a relatively clear way to live. You don't have to remember much just the truth. I have overshot this on a few occasions and arguements have been the result but everyone knows what they're going to get and most people like it.

People appreciate the truth - even if it is offensive, they appreciate it eventually.