Poll: Paradoxs:We've all caused them

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FastFoot92

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The last two threads I've have generally resulted in people screaming TIME PARADOX!?!??!?!!?

So I was wondering what paradoxs have you potentially caused in life?

Mine would have to be accidently sending a letter to myself when I'd only slept 5 hours in the past 2 days so I was prone to a few errors

Still took the post office the rest of the week to get it back to me:S
 

LockeDown

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Your thinking is flawed, as it would only be a paradox if you were to send information from your future self to your past self, and even then, it would take very specific information to cause a paradox.

Neither you nor anyone here on the Escapist is capable of causing damage with any real lasting effect to the vastness of the universe. We are all but specks of dust with regard to the infinite cosmos.
 

Eclectic Dreck

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Since a paradox is, by definition, a scenario that cannot be resolved with logic and I have yet to encounter such a problem outside of hypothetical conversation, I'm going to say I have never caused nor seen a paradox.
 

Eclectic Dreck

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Continuum said:
If this sentence is true, the world will end in a week.
This is not a paradox. If the sentence is false, the world does not end in a week. There is no logic loop to be had. A better example of a paradox is the famous "tree falling in the woods" scenario. Of course, from a purely scientific standpoint, if nobody was around to observe the tree falling the question of it making noise is moot - how do you even know it fell?
 

Altorin

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LockeDown said:
Your thinking is flawed, as it would only be a paradox if you were to send information from your future self to your past self, and even then, it would take very specific information to cause a paradox.

Neither you nor anyone here on the Escapist is capable of causing damage with any real lasting effect to the vastness of the universe. We are all but specks of dust with regard to the infinite cosmos.
pretty much this. You can't just create a time paradox, because time paradoxes are CAUSED by time travel of some sort, and unless you've invented that, you can't do it.

In order to create a time paradox with a letter to yourself, it would have to be from your future self to your past self telling you not to send a letter to your past self when your present self finally becomes your future self.
 

LockeDown

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Eclectic Dreck said:
Continuum said:
If this sentence is true, the world will end in a week.
This is not a paradox. If the sentence is false, the world does not end in a week. There is no logic loop to be had. A better example of a paradox is the famous "tree falling in the woods" scenario. Of course, from a purely scientific standpoint, if nobody was around to observe the tree falling the question of it making noise is moot - how do you even know it fell?
But even that's not a true paradox, more of a logical quandry trying to explore the concept of reality as an absolute.

The paradox I'm most familiar is Russell's Paradox, since I was coerced into writing a paper on it for a class a few years back. Basically, it's a logical flaw existing in...well, logic, upon which number theory, and eventually all of mathematics is based.

I spent the class I was supposed to be presenting my findings explaining to the class that since math was based on a flawed system, it was also flawed by extension, and not worth our time to study.
 

Disaster Button

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Feb 18, 2009
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Well there was that time I built a time machine to go back in time to stop Hitler and changed the future to a time where the Soviets and Allies still existed and a time where they were enjoying the conflict that was World War 2 except with extra Russia, more dolphins with lasers attatched to their had and armoured bears. Oh wait..

yes this is still a paradox because if I went back in time and killed Hitler then Hitler will have never existed thus never prompting my desire to go back in time.
 

ribonuge

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Eclectic Dreck said:
Continuum said:
If this sentence is true, the world will end in a week.
This is not a paradox. If the sentence is false, the world does not end in a week. There is no logic loop to be had. A better example of a paradox is the famous "tree falling in the woods" scenario. Of course, from a purely scientific standpoint, if nobody was around to observe the tree falling the question of it making noise is moot - how do you even know it fell?
No you are wrong. "if this sentence is false the world will end in a week"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curry%27s_paradox
 

Altorin

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LockeDown said:
Eclectic Dreck said:
Continuum said:
If this sentence is true, the world will end in a week.
This is not a paradox. If the sentence is false, the world does not end in a week. There is no logic loop to be had. A better example of a paradox is the famous "tree falling in the woods" scenario. Of course, from a purely scientific standpoint, if nobody was around to observe the tree falling the question of it making noise is moot - how do you even know it fell?
But even that's not a true paradox, more of a logical quandry trying to explore the concept of reality as an absolute.

The paradox I'm most familiar is Russell's Paradox, since I was coerced into writing a paper on it for a class a few years back. Basically, it's a logical flaw existing in...well, logic, upon which number theory, and eventually all of mathematics is based.

I spent the class I was supposed to be presenting my findings explaining to the class that since math was based on a flawed system, it was also flawed by extension, and not worth our time to study.
It took some surfing to even get a layman understanding of the Russell Paradox... basically it's If a list of things contains itself (like a list of all the lists in the world), then there's a logical flaw where it shouldn't contain itself, but once it doesn't contain itself, it should, ad infinitum?

I think I smoked myself into a logical fallacy.
 

Eclectic Dreck

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Continuum said:
Eclectic Dreck said:
Continuum said:
If this sentence is true, the world will end in a week.
This is not a paradox. If the sentence is false, the world does not end in a week. There is no logic loop to be had. A better example of a paradox is the famous "tree falling in the woods" scenario. Of course, from a purely scientific standpoint, if nobody was around to observe the tree falling the question of it making noise is moot - how do you even know it fell?
No you are wrong. "if this sentence is false the world will end in a week"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curry%27s_paradox
Your statement has no paradox in it. The thing is, all such statements are based upon a misuse of english and as such do not actually result in a true paradox. The most famous example is the statement that "all natural numbers can be named in fourteen sylables or less".

The proof generally given lacks rigour:
Find the first word that cannot be unambiguously described using fourteen words or less.
This number may be unambiguously described as "the first natural number that cannot be unambiguously described in fourteen words or less" (A description which is fourteen words long)
If you follow the logic you find that all natural numbers can be described in fourteen words or less.

A rigorous proof is simpler - when dealing with the natural number set (all integers greater than zero), you come to realize you are dealing with a set who's cardinal (that is the number of members in the set) is trans-finite. This generally means that in order to actually unambiguously describe the contents of the set in turn requires an infinite number of words. Unfortunately, the sum total of all languages ever spoken does not contain such a number of words thus we seem to hit a road block until you realize words can simply be generated via a system. If the system readily reveals the meaning of the word, the standard rules of communication apply.

Thus you have a proof with actual rigor that doesn't rely on flawed use of english. Find the first number that cannot be unambiguously described in fourteen words or less. This number is to be described as n. Find the second number that cannot be unambiguously described in fourteen words or less; this number shall be described as nn. All numbers in the set shall be described as such, so that as each instance of a number that cannot otherwise be unambigiously described with fourteen or fewer words adds a new n to the previous word. As such, by demonstration of a working system that generates an infinite number of unambigious words, you give a deductive proof that all natural numbers can unambigiously be described using fourteen or fewer words. The paradox as such collapses because once a paradox can be resolved with logic it ceases to be a paradox.


Your assertion is "if this statement is true, the world will end in a week". If the world does not end in a week then the statement is both proven true and false simultaneously and thus you arrive at the supposed paradox. However, in this particular case we do not rely on an intellectual exercise to determine the truth of the statement. I can take your statement and then wait a week and see. Since there is no need to rely on a deductive solution to the problem, the inductive proof becomes clear. If the world does not end in a week and the statement reaches it's supposed paradox we are given a clear answer - the end of the world does not rely on the statement in question. Of course, one can make this statement an infinite number of times until time itself ceases to be, but invariably the truth of the statement is inevitably revealed and the paradox is resolved.
 

ribonuge

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Eclectic Dreck said:
Continuum said:
Eclectic Dreck said:
Continuum said:
If this sentence is true, the world will end in a week.
This is not a paradox. If the sentence is false, the world does not end in a week. There is no logic loop to be had. A better example of a paradox is the famous "tree falling in the woods" scenario. Of course, from a purely scientific standpoint, if nobody was around to observe the tree falling the question of it making noise is moot - how do you even know it fell?
No you are wrong. "if this sentence is false the world will end in a week"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curry%27s_paradox

Your assertion is "if this statement is true, the world will end in a week". If the world does not end in a week then the statement is both proven true and false simultaneously and thus you arrive at the supposed paradox. However, in this particular case we do not rely on an intellectual exercise to determine the truth of the statement. I can take your statement and then wait a week and see. Since there is no need to rely on a deductive solution to the problem, the inductive proof becomes clear. If the world does not end in a week and the statement reaches it's supposed paradox we are given a clear answer - the end of the world does not rely on the statement in question. Of course, one can make this statement an infinite number of times until time itself ceases to be, but invariably the truth of the statement is inevitably revealed and the paradox is resolved.
I apologise for calling you wrong, it was wrong of me to do so. It's 5 am here so i'm a bit tired. To be honest i'm out of my depth, you seem to know your paradoxes.

Essentially you are describing it as a temporary paradox because there is no definite conditional claim (ie reference to future event). Until the paradox is resolved it remains so. From this you can derive that, as the paradox can be resolved, it is not one in the first place. I see your logic. And I see my mistake.

Eclectic Dreck said:
"tree falling in the woods" scenario.
Funnily enough I want to attend the college Berkely did in Dublin and study philosophy.

That isn't exactly a paradox though. It raises the questions on the seperate existence of objects out of our awareness and our observations. I want to go to bed so i'm being cheap and quoting from wikipedia. I have no shame !

"It is not the absence of sound that should be considered, but rather the absence of awareness of the sound."
 

Ridonculous_Ninja

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Dorian6 said:
I always lie
That doesn't mean you always tell the truth, hence you are lying right now. BEGONE WITH YOUR EASILY SOLVED CONUNDRUMS!

Also, I will build a Time Machine to go forth into the future and steal a better time machine to give to myself in the past so I won't have to build a time machine.

=D

The world shall explode. Obviously not my fault though...

I seriously want to know how this would end up, obviously I had some way of going to the future to deliver myself the time machine without using the same time machine to steal the time machine I'm using which would cause another paradox because I would have removed that which I used to remove the thing that was removed by my removal of the first time machine I built.

Ow.

My brain...
 

Dorian6

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Ridonculous_Ninja said:
Dorian6 said:
I always lie
That doesn't mean you always tell the truth, hence you are lying right now. BEGONE WITH YOUR EASILY SOLVED CONUNDRUMS!
But if everything I say is a lie, then that means "I always lie" is also a lie. And in order for me to be a perpetual non-truth-teller, then I would have to have been telling the truth when I said "I Always lie." But then that would mean that I don't always lie, because I was telling the truth about being a liar.