Poll: Poll: TLoU vs. Bioshock Infinite

[Zenn3k]

Both games had bad game play and good stories.

Both games had an appealing female character whose name began with E who outshone the gruff male protagonist who was voiced by Troy Baker. Both games featured a central narrative about fathers and daughters and shots at redemption for a troubled past.

Personally I preferred Infinite. The game play was merely tepid, instead of actively broken-bad, as was so frequently the case with The Last of Us. There were times in Bioshock Infinite where I found myself thinking "I wish this had been done better". Nearly half the time I was playing The Last of Us I actively hated the game.

In what way was the gameplay of TLOU "broken-bad"?

In my experience, it was about as close to perfection as a video game doing "survival" could get. Limited items, limited ammo, pretty intelligent AI and challenging enemies.

 

[oversoon]

Bioshock was superior because it wasn't an exclusive.

Quality of the game and availability of the game aren't the same thing.

 

[Mikeyfell]

The reason I wanted to see these two games pitted against one another is because they both seemed so similar. Both had gritty protagonists who were ashamed of their past. Both characters lost a daughter when they were younger. Both games have an important independent female character that develops a close bond with the protagonist. In both games the plot tends to center around the female character more than the protagonist. Basically, even though the genres were different, the main characters in both games seemed to fill similar roles. Both games are good in their own ways.

And they were both voiced by Troy Baker (You've probably heard that a million times today but whatever)

Well, I'd say it's a tie.
Both games have their strong points and flaws, in completely opposite ways.

Last of Us is nearly flawless in presentation, and a bit sloppy in execution
The story is incredible the acting is top notch the visuals and motion capture is breath taking, but it does have that stupid Naughty Dog style crap where they stick cutscenes in gameplay (Usually while the characters you're supposed to be listening to are walking away from you) combined with a exploratory resource gathering mechanic and a "realistic" sound design choice that muffles sounds that come from behind walls, so if you want to gather resources while you're walking (Emphasis on "walking" because they take away your ability to run during those cutscene gameplay hybrid moments) you have to choose between missing the dialog and doubling back after it's over.

The gameplay has a ton of little nit-picky problems that grate on my nerves (Like Invisible Ellie for one) The stealth gameplay is pretty solid, the hand to hand stuff is brutal and gratifying. The inventory system is a bit... wrong given the circumstances. Being able to carry around an entire arsenal in my backpack doesn't feel right in a scroungy survivalist world, and I don't know about most people but I never hurt for Ammo. The level design was designed as a third person cover based shooter instead of an area that humans would live in. (I know it's post apocalypse but some of the Feng Shui people must have survived)

But the ending to the story more than makes up for any shortcomings in the gameplay department

Bioshock Infinite is a game that goes for... um... Middle ground by way of extremes?
The level design is very artistically charged (and beautiful) and the shooting gameplay is arcadey and over the top. Which would be great if the inventory system weren't broken every other Shock game let you carry around all your weapons at once because the designers understood that the level design didn't permit one style of play to work for all areas. Infinite forces you to guess what weapons you should take into an encounter and then laughs at you if you chose poorly. forcing someone (Like me) to spend a large percent of the game trying to find out which cheese tactics worked the best (Which to the designer's credit, there weren't very many of, even if it means I got to eat shit most of the time)

The story on the other hand is good in an out there sort of way. It's the kind of thing that you're not supposed to think about. But it's wrapped in a really good character drama (Or maybe the drama is the core and the infinite universe stuff is the frosting... I don't know) And it shouldn't matter because the Drama is what you're supposed to focus on and the quantum stuff is just a bunch of smoke and mirrors to let the twists and turns twist and turn in which ever ways they want, and giving the plot plausible deniability to throw common sense out the window.

That being said the writing and world building in Infinite are really well done (Even if the end is just silliness)


I don't know if that adequately expresses why I think they're a tie but after all their strengths and weaknesses are tallied the two games have exactly equal merit (and are both worth playing, in case that wasn't clear)

 

[Tactical Pause]

I'd be lying to myself if I picked anything other than TLoU. I love Bioshock: Infinite, and Ken Levine is still one of my favorite people in the gaming industry, but The Last of Us really got to me. I feel like I connected with Joel and Ellie way more than I did with Booker and Elizabeth, I preferred the gameplay in TLoU (Infinite's combat got a bit dull after a while), and I guess I just like the more cinematic style of TLoU better than the 'never lose control of your character' style of B:I.

On top of that, while both games had endings that that made me think about them long after they were over, for Infinite, I found that I analysed the narrative and themes in a sort of cold, mechanical fashion (which I enjoyed a great deal, mind you), while my reaction to The Last of Us was much more emotionally charged, and didn't feel as... distant, I guess the word would be?

Also, The Last of Us made me question one of my core beliefs, so there's that.

 

[Conza]

There were many fantastic game of the year nominees for 2013, but the match up I was most curious about was TLoU vs. Bioshock Infinite. Since this match up was clearly not meant to be, I was curious which game the Escapist community preferred, free of outside influences and Russian youtube commentators. This poll is purely speculative, and I hope we can avoid the negativity that surrounded some of the official GOTY polls.

The reason I wanted to see these two games pitted against one another is because they both seemed so similar. Both had gritty protagonists who were ashamed of their past. Both characters lost a daughter when they were younger. Both games have an important independent female character that develops a close bond with the protagonist. In both games the plot tends to center around the female character more than the protagonist. Basically, even though the genres were different, the main characters in both games seemed to fill similar roles. Both games are good in their own ways.

Personally I preferred TLoU. I thought the writing was better, and Ellie seemed like a more compelling character than Elizabeth. The pacing of the story seemed better as well. I also enjoyed the third person stealth game play more than the first shooter game play, and felt like TLoU did a better job of making me connect with the characters.

What do you think Escapist?

I think there's a spoiler alert for Bioshock in there, saying 'Both characters lost a' ect, while it might be obvious for TloU, it isn't for B:I.

Big Infinite fan, very disappointed it didn't make, atleast the finals for GOTY (but I was also disappointed about Pokemon as well). I won't go further with my negativity on that issue.

Bioshock was just an amazing game, I loved everything about it, the sort of thriller-ish FPS adventure platform 'sorta' RPG, was just an epic combination, in all senses, the story was amazing and left me guessing the whole way through, the combat was rewarding most of the time, and very difficult, encouraging both shooter and power elements to be used, without having any spoilers I can't say much more than that, but it leaves you talking with people who played it for weeks, once you've finished it. HL3 could learn a thing or two from this before its made, that's for sure.

 

[white_wolf]

Just finished TLOU and I've played BSI while I do say BSI did hold to their themes established in the game TLOU is far superior in narrative cohesion, character development, and themes. The charters were more deeply written then those in BSI. Prior to playing las of us I thought Elizabeth was well done but she's out shinned with the realistic portrayals of Tess, Joel, Ellie, and Madaline their VA didn't sound forced but more natural.


I was far more emerged in TLOU then BSI I actually stopped trying to fallow the world shifts of BSI and all the possibilities they actually created but never acknowledged in the game if dead Booker is seen running around alive the least you'd expect from Foxy is , "Oh crap! It's a ghost kill it!" the girl isn't even phased her martyr is up and gunning down everything that moves. It's a similar problem that plagued singularity as well I'm moving in and out of worlds yet the contacts in my past world know me throughout the shifts the only one who should still be familiar with me or my conversations with them is Eliz. as she's with me most of the time.

I didn't have that problem with TLOU I was immersed so much so I forgot I was Joel it was me and the girl not Joel and the girl at many points and I was scared to enter into areas because I didn't have the bullets or if I was Ellie I felt scared that these adults were going to slay me and they do if you don't hussle! That was interesting she dies and ND wasn't scared to show it they also have her battling for her life against a cannibal with no Joel in sight which is great she got herself out not him.

I related to everyone in some way in TLOU not so with BSI I could relate a bit to Eliz. Eliz doesn't have the inner strength that Ellie has the best moment we see this strength is when she's in the mental hospital and that's an AU liz the real liz has some strength but its slightly above average she's brave but Ellie is courageous she has an inner drive I don't see in liz she wants to live but Ellie wants to live and to get her goal done no matter what she has to go through she's fighting harder then Joel is at points emotionally and physically between the two girls Ellie is far better in alot of ways.

Booker was you typical brick and while I could see him going from bad guy to evil dictator given the right circumstances it doesn't explain how you go from bad guy to cult racist it just doesn't. With Joel I could see him toggling back and fourth the man who wants to deny he thinks of Ellie as a replacement daughter and the man who wants to embrace that as his world is constantly being destroyed. His inner struggles are apparent even if they aren't voiced he's not so brick as he's playing the tough man but toughness only goes so far and he'll show weakness as he should when he can't do things and I particularly liked that about him.

BW has on paper the original plot and universe in practice it's not so great. TLOU has a generic zombie plot line mixed with escort quest but in practice they made the world far more realistic and alive then BSI did. In short I want to replay ND's game I don't want to replay 2K's game.

 

[Flutterguy]

The 10 minute crying scene over a character I've only known 5 minutes dieing in TLoU.. Bioshock wins easily. It's story had some poorly written moments too but TLoU seemed to have one every few minutes.

 

[Zhukov]

The 10 minute crying scene over a character I've only known 5 minutes dieing in TLoU..

Actually, the crying scene lasted one minute and the character had been around for 15-20 minutes.

Scandal!

 

[LetalisK]

Ahhh how I miss when vs threads weren't allowed.

Except there's an entire forum full of vs threads here.

Why are they allowed but not this one?

Well far be it from me to write the rules, but the mods used to shut down vs threads instantly. Now they're just rampant.

They still stop most of them because of what they would devolve into. I think they're probably watching this thread like a hawk. I mean a lot of community members sorta wanted this because the actual contest's poll was hijacked and it's basically turned into another Zynga match, with Papers, Please taking the role of Zynga.

How was it hijacked? I mean, I've voted against Papers Please every time, but I don't see how it's been hijacked.

Edit: Oh, are you talking about the Youtube thing? Okay, I haven't been paying too much attention to the threads themselves. Though I would question just how much of an impact it has and how one would know how much of an impact it has.

 

[AldUK]

How was it hijacked? I mean, I've voted against Papers Please every time, but I don't see how it's been hijacked.

Take a look at the entire thread, you'll quickly see that a Russian Youtuber made a video about the contest and asked his followers to vote for Paper's Please. A couple of thousand sudden votes swayed the result of the semi-final between PP and Bioshock: Infinite at the last minute and now it appears that many of them have voted here in the final also. In other words, it's something of a fallacy for this to still be called the Escapist's Reader's Choice.

Also worthy of mentioning, the people talking about this have been accused of being xenophobic and hostile towards newcomers, speaking for myself, that's not at all the case. I welcome new members to the Escapist whole-heartedly, but by all accounts, of the entirety of aforementioned Russian Youtuber's followers, only a handful have been posting and saying they'll stick around.

 

[IceForce]

How was it hijacked? I mean, I've voted against Papers Please every time, but I don't see how it's been hijacked.

Edit: Oh, are you talking about the Youtube thing? Okay, I haven't been paying too much attention to the threads themselves. Though I would question just how much of an impact it has and how one would know how much of an impact it has.

Lets put it this way: In the Papers Please vs Bioshock Infinite poll, Bioshock Infinite was 30+% in the lead.
Then, in the last 3 hours of voting, 2000+ votes for Papers Please came completely out of nowhere, and swapped the polling percentages to the polar opposite of what they were.

I know this because I saw it happen before my eyes.

It was bullshit, and made a mockery of the entire thing.

 

[Casual Shinji]

Last of Us is nearly flawless in presentation, and a bit sloppy in execution
The story is incredible the acting is top notch the visuals and motion capture is breath taking, but it does have that stupid Naughty Dog style crap where they stick cutscenes in gameplay (Usually while the characters you're supposed to be listening to are walking away from you) combined with a exploratory resource gathering mechanic and a "realistic" sound design choice that muffles sounds that come from behind walls, so if you want to gather resources while you're walking (Emphasis on "walking" because they take away your ability to run during those cutscene gameplay hybrid moments) you have to choose between missing the dialog and doubling back after it's over.

I heard you mention this once before, and again I have to say this was one of the things that made the game come to life for me. The A.I. characters weren't stapled to your back, following you around at every turn. They kinda did their own thing during the walky/explorey sections. You could either stay within their distance to follow what they were saying, or choose to ignore it and just continue rummaging for supplies. One of the best moments for me in the game was in the subburb area, where I was checking upstairs in one of the houses. As I was making my way back down I heard noises coming from the living room, and I found Ellie and Sam just playing darts. Within that moment being completely unaware of my presence as the game character and just doing their own thing. Scripted obviously, but it gives the impression that they have their own little motivation loose from yours.

 

[Roxas1359]

Edit: Oh, are you talking about the Youtube thing? Okay, I haven't been paying too much attention to the threads themselves. Though I would question just how much of an impact it has and how one would know how much of an impact it has.

Well the YouTuber who made the video has over 1,200,000 subscribers so he's got a following to say the least. And while ND and UbiSoft have made tweets talking about the contest and suggesting to vote, this person made a video outright about the contest and said to vote for Papers Please. So then we got the scenario in which BioShock Infinte was winning the poll by about a couple hundred, and the suddenly Papers Please went to having a couple hundred over The Last of Us in the course of an hour. That's why this thread was made, since the final round more than likely was going to be BI and TLoU in the final round and people wanted to see how it would go. So basically what happened was another "Zynga winning March Mayhem" fiasco here, only more tame and with a body count not as high.

 

[edgecult]

Sadly I didn't care for either and mostly because I didn't finish either due to game crippling bugs that had return the games within a week or two of buying them.

The last of us had me playing the whole starter area without a gun. (not impossible but quite annoying) and I spent a good third of the game thinking clickers were some kind of chameleon creatures sense they only seemed to appear when I was getting my throat ripped out. (I wish I was kidding, it wasn't till I watched my brother play through the first clicker area a few days later to learn that you're supposed to be able to see the damned clickers walking around...) I gave up trying to navigate invisible clickers at around bills town and never got past that area. Heard the rest of the game was good too shame bout that..

Bioshock infinite had me rerunning massive parts of the game because the autosave was broken and there was no manual saving far as I saw. Best part of it was it only started to do at the most tedious parts. So I got stuck doing the Vox populi attack on the factory owners office (The bit that ends with Elisabeth stabbing daisy) three times before it gave me a later autosave.. (this bit also bugged out a bit with a random guy that seemed to get stuck in a wall. Luckily they give enough explosives and salts that it was at least doable by blowing up the bits next to him enough to kill him) right before the whole fucking ghost bit.. which it had me redo from the start 4 times before I called it quits and just returned the game. ( again shame.. was having fun with the game till it started doing this..)

I'm assuming the bugs for these all got resolved at some point but I can't bring myself to play either again sense the memory of the bugs sours them both in my mind and all the good twists and story bits have sense been spoiled that there's just zero reason for me to slog back through to see it myself. -shrug-

Anyway! so yeah.. I abstain from voting as I'de really rather not play either but felt like at least sharing a mildly amusing story of bugs and issues.

 

[FoolKiller]

Nearly half the time I was playing The Last of Us I actively hated the game.

I'm so glad that at least one other person feels this way. I really tried to love the game and was enjoying the story but stopped halfway through because I've never played a game where it infuriates me as much as this did. I get what they were trying to do but it was just done wrong.

I vote Bioshock Infinite because I enjoyed playing it. Pure and simple.

 

[Maximum Bert]

Played and finished Bioshock Infinite when it came out I havent finished The Last of Us yet but I should do that today as im on the winter bit atm.

In TLOU I think it has a good story, great characters, great audio, good graphics and good art direction but the gameplay is not great I am enjoying it more now but early on I hated it. It is just not fun or satisfying at all at least for me anyway and usually comes down to oh that didnt work restart oh that didnt work restart aha this works maybe im being to stealthy but yeah the actual gameplay is my least favourite part about the game.

In BI I thought it had an ok story, good character (Elizabeth) ok audio, ok graphics, good art direction but again gameplay was not very enjoyable and while I never got the same sense of ffs here we go again I get with TLOU it does insist on throwing unenjoyable fights at you again and again.

So all that in mind I am going for TLOU between these two mainly because I think its a much better game overall but neither of these are in the contention for GOTY for me because the gameplay is just so damn unappealing in both and worse actually gets in the way of the good parts i.e everything else. Maybe they world have been better if they removed the actual gameplay for the most part like to the moon did.

TLOU actually reminds me of Planescape in a way where you feel there is something fantastic in there but you have to wade through a lot of bad gameplay to get to it although I feel Planescape has even worse gameplay that TLOU as I could not carry on in that game and gave up after 15 hours in at least im still going with TLOU but then again it is shorter.

 

[mysecondlife]

So Bioshock Infinite's winning Escapist's GOTY?

That's fine by me.

Both are fantastic. But I voted The Last of Us.

If I were Booker, rummaging through trash and eating things from it wouldn't be the first thing I'd do when I arrive in Columbia. It feels like it's there only because Bioshock had it. It certainly makes sense in Bioshock but not in Infinite.
So yeah.. That part felt little jarring to me.

The Last of Us is clearly better in the character department

 

[suitepee7]

Infinite, because i don't play on anything other than my PC

 

[00slash00]

Both games had bad game play and good stories.

Both games had an appealing female character whose name began with E who outshone the gruff male protagonist who was voiced by Troy Baker. Both games featured a central narrative about fathers and daughters and shots at redemption for a troubled past.

Personally I preferred Infinite. The game play was merely tepid, instead of actively broken-bad, as was so frequently the case with The Last of Us. There were times in Bioshock Infinite where I found myself thinking "I wish this had been done better". Nearly half the time I was playing The Last of Us I actively hated the game.

The Last of Us was far too cliche for me to call it a good story. In my opinion, The Last of Us had bad controls and a predictable story but much better characters. Bioshock had acceptable but kinda boring gameplay and a good story. I do agree that Bioshock was the better of the two. While I was mainly just trying to get through gameplay so I could advance the story, I still found it enjoyable enough. With The Last of Us, playing the game felt like a chore and I had to force myself to keep going, with my primary motivation to continue being, "Well every reviewer was passionately in love with this game so it must get better at some point."

 

[LetalisK]

Edit: Oh, are you talking about the Youtube thing? Okay, I haven't been paying too much attention to the threads themselves. Though I would question just how much of an impact it has and how one would know how much of an impact it has.

Well the YouTuber who made the video has over 1,200,000 subscribers so he's got a following to say the least. And while ND and UbiSoft have made tweets talking about the contest and suggesting to vote, this person made a video outright about the contest and said to vote for Papers Please. So then we got the scenario in which BioShock Infinte was winning the poll by about a couple hundred, and the suddenly Papers Please went to having a couple hundred over The Last of Us in the course of an hour. That's why this thread was made, since the final round more than likely was going to be BI and TLoU in the final round and people wanted to see how it would go. So basically what happened was another "Zynga winning March Mayhem" fiasco here, only more tame and with a body count not as high.

While I was here for that, I didn't pay attention to the controversy. I take it Zynga did the same thing, basically?

Btw, Papers Please was nominated by the Pub Club, right? So we can basically blame this on them? XD