Poll: Prison Honor?

[Jamboxdotcom]

Quite a few times i have seen people mention the belief that pedophiles and rapists are treated particularly poorly by other criminals in prison. I know that most of us would like to believe that even scum have standards, but i can tell you this simply is not true. I know this from people who have experienced prison from the perspective of inmates and of guards.
First off, my biological father is a goddamn child molesting pedophile. He did 10 years. He came out of prison with no scars (physical or apparent mental), and better off than he went in (training he got in prison netted him a 6-figure job when he got out).
Secondly, i have a friend who was a prison guard for 5 years, and some of the stories he told me simply cannot be repeated here. Suffice it to say, pedophilia is not simply tolerated by most inmates, it's actively supported.

Granted, both of these are anecdotal, and i can't prove that ALL prisoners are tolerant of pedophiles and rapists, but i really must argue that the idea that they are always mistreated is wholly incorrect and sadly optimistic.

Do you still criminals treat pedophiles worse than other inmates?
*edit* If so, why? Obviously, i strongly believe it's wishful thinking to say that pedophiles get abused in prison, but if you have stories to support an opposite view, please share them.
Mind that i am not trying to speak in absolutes. I know that there will always be examples to the contrary, which is why i brought this up to begin with: to combat a commonly held belief that i believe to be in error. So, really the point of my asking this question is to find out why people believe one way or the other. Let's ignore the poll.

Also, if you are going to try to argue that pedophiles and rapists don't deserve harsh treatment, please go elsewhere. I will not tolerate people defending them. Rapists/pedos are worse than murderers, because their victims continue to "live". Those are sarcasm quotes, there, because those victims are often so screwed up that they can only loosely be considered to be living. Basically, i feel that rapists/pedos are torturers, who inflict a lifetime of pain on their victims. This is something i've seen personally. Also, to head off possible derailment, i don't consider statutory rape to be rape. Sex with a consenting 16 year old is not the same as forcible or drug-assisted rape; it's still not a "good" thing, but it's not rape.

I would like to thank everyone for their contributions to the discussion so far, even when calling me out on the way i've stated something.

 

[D_987]

It's not much of a discussion when you pretty much present your argument as fact and ask "do you agree with me"?

Do I agree with you? No.

I beleive some prisoners treat those with crimes such as these worse than others around them. Others encourage it. It's the same with everything; you can't use small examples to compare how people in completely different environments [say prisons in two different countries, or indeed different categories of prisons] behave. It depends on the crime, the criminals background, the prison environment they are in and so on and so forth - just lumping all criminals as one is both lazy and leads to the ignorance you're attempting to eradicate.

 

[Irridium]

I've heard plenty of stories where pedophiles have to be separated from other prisoners and placed in solitary confinement solely because if they go out into the main population, they wouldn't last a day. Depends on where you live I guess. And most of the stories were from documentaries, if that means anything.

 

[Jamboxdotcom]

It's not much of a discussion when you pretty much present your argument as fact and ask "do you agree with me"?

fair enough. i'll try to edit to allow for more discussion value. but i really am looking for people to try to give some sort of justification for why they believe either way. if you've seen/heard something that supports your belief, by all means, share it with us.

 

[redisforever]

I personally think that pedos are treated way differently from say, people who commit fraud, and things like that.

 

[D_987]

It's not much of a discussion when you pretty much present your argument as fact and ask "do you agree with me"?

fair enough. i'll try to edit to allow for more discussion value. but i really am looking for people to try to give some sort of justification for why they believe either way. if you've seen/heard something that supports your belief, by all means, share it with us.

See edited post. Your beliefs are flawed simply because you lump everyone into one area - your specific examples aren't the only examples, there'll be different viewpoints due to differing circumstances.

 

[can't-think]

I've never been in prison myself, but my father has (Not for anything very serious)and from what he's told me child molesters and rapists were beaten if guards told inmates what they had done and often just stayed locked up all day instead of going into the yard. This was at least 20 years ago though and in Australia if that makes any difference.

 

[Jamboxdotcom]

It's not much of a discussion when you pretty much present your argument as fact and ask "do you agree with me"?

fair enough. i'll try to edit to allow for more discussion value. but i really am looking for people to try to give some sort of justification for why they believe either way. if you've seen/heard something that supports your belief, by all means, share it with us.

See edited post. Your beliefs are flawed simply because you lump everyone into one area - your specific examples aren't the only examples, there'll be different viewpoints due to differing circumstances.

hmmm... i'm not sure i totally follow you. i realize i'm going to be in the minority with this belief, but my belief is based on "evidence" (yes, more irony quotes). i'm just wondering if other people's opposing beliefs are likewise based on "evidence" whether actual firsthand evidence, or anecdotal evidence, or "they said so on the teevee!"
also, equally obvious from my OP should be the fact that i LOATHE rapists/pedos, so obviously i would like to believe they suffer as badly in prison as possible. but things i've been told from reliable sources tell me otherwise.

 

[Susano]

Rapists/pedos are worse than murderers, because their victims continue to "live". Those are sarcasm quotes, there, because those victims are often so screwed up that they can only loosely be considered to be living.

What, so you would think those people are better off dead? You think that if somebody's been raped, they can never ever have anything resembling a semblance of a life ever again?

Nice going completely ostracising rape victims there.

 

[D_987]

hmmm... i'm not sure i totally follow you.

In simpler terms then:

- Not every prison is the same.
- Not every criminal is the same.
- Not every specific crime is the same.

Thus:

- You're generalizing criminals.
- You're asking for examples whilst claiming you're against the views people claim "they said so on the teevee!" as fact.
- You're acting as though people that commit these specific crimes are not placed in specific types of prisons with specific types of people.

As such the discussion is to generalized and to open to personal experience being touted as fact [as you did in the OP]. It will only lead to further misconception by a generally already ignorant internet community [seriously look at most of the threads on this subject] that don't understand that all criminals are not the same.

 

[Jamboxdotcom]

Rapists/pedos are worse than murderers, because their victims continue to "live". Those are sarcasm quotes, there, because those victims are often so screwed up that they can only loosely be considered to be living.

What, so you would think those people are better off dead? You think that if somebody's been raped, they can never ever have anything resembling a semblance of a life ever again?

Nice going completely ostracising rape victims there.

ouch. i guess what i said could be construed that way. however, what i meant was that many rape victims i know might as well be dead, considering their quality of life. they are alive, but they are in near-constant torment. obviously, not all are that way. i know a few well-adjusted rape victims. but many or most are basically living in hell.

 

[Jamboxdotcom]

- Not every prison is the same.
- Not every criminal is the same.
- Not every specific crime is the same.

Thus:

- You're generalizing criminals.
- You're asking for examples whilst claiming you're against the views people claim "they said so on the teevee!" as fact.
- You're acting as though people that commit these specific crimes are not placed in specific types of prisons with specific types of people.

to be fair, i did state in my OP that i can't prove this is true for all prisoners. in fact, that's the whole point of my raising this topic. i see people tout the opposing viewpoint all the time. most people accept as fact the idea that pedos will be killed/raped/severely beaten within days of entering gen-pop. i'm trying to show that's not always true.

let's chalk this up to internet miscommunication. people can state opinions without stating them in absolutes? nowai!

 

[D_987]

to be fair, i did state in my OP that i can't prove this is true for all prisoners. in fact, that's the whole point of my raising this topic. i see people tout the opposing viewpoint all the time. most people accept as fact the idea that pedos will be killed/raped/severely beaten within days of entering gen-pop. i'm trying to show that's not always true.

let's chalk this up to internet miscommunication. people can state opinions without stating them in absolutes? nowai!

You're missing the point; the topic as a whole is flawed - I suggest you read my original couple of posts.

 

[emeraldrafael]

I think if its something that applies to the right group of people. If someone goes in for killing someone well liked (lets say um... hm. Oka, I cant really think of a good example for America. So lets say some Brit kills Stephen Fry [whoever he is]), the general population will probably be pissed and want to do physical bodily harm. Yeah, thats probably not a good example, but its serves the purpose.

then again, some guys are liked in their, or they dont talk it up much, or they just dont look like someone you want to fuck with. My friend Tim did time for some gang related issues out in California before moving out here. While he was in there, a pedophile (who actively raped something like 5 kids), came through. this guy was HUGE (according to Tim at least), and no one messed with him. So he walked back out of Prison, no fuss no muss, just like the OP's father.

Like anything else, its based on the opinions of the group you're associating with.

 

[Gigano]

There are certainly also indications to the contrary [http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/02/09/jose-agostinho-pereira-br_n_820829.html]. Here they were targeted specifically for execution first chance the other inmates got.

Unless they're kept in special wards or prisons - where they could no doubt be encouraging each other - sex offenders, especially those of them which target children, are widely regarded in criminal sociology as being at the very bottom of the internal hierarchy among criminals. Prison authorities here encourage them to not speak about their crimes, and if they're discovered they often voluntarily request isolation.

 

[Susano]

What, so you would think those people are better off dead? You think that if somebody's been raped, they can never ever have anything resembling a semblance of a life ever again?

Nice going completely ostracising rape victims there.

ouch. i guess what i said could be construed that way. however, what i meant was that many rape victims i know might as well be dead, considering their quality of life. they are alive, but they are in near-constant torment. obviously, not all are that way. i know a few well-adjusted rape victims. but many or most are basically living in hell.

Well to me, that seemed like almost the point of what you were saying, if not a very strong implication.
Anyway, I don't think you can say that. You aren't living their lives, and don't have their experiences. You can't make a value judgement on their quality of life, that's theirs and theirs alone to make.
My point is, you can only act as an observer to their life. You don't know what they feel, or if their life is a living hell. I don't think you can say "murder is worse than rape" and be right, because murder is the complete cessation of a persons life, with no chance for experience or improvement or anything else. If they felt that being murdered would seriously have been better then being raped, there wouldn't be any more rape victims because they all would have killed themselves.
And yes, I am aware that some try, and succeed. But at least they have the choice to decide whether to do that or not, whereas murder completely takes away all choice forever.

 

[Smooth Operator]

Oh there is no wishful thinking, pedophiles/rapists are in serious trouble if others find out, and no shortage of "accidental" deaths has occurred because of it.

But on the whole it's a very basic jungle system, kill or be killed, display power or be overpowered, so even a pedophile/rapist will survive if he has enough power.

 

[Zykon TheLich]

That's odd, I know quite a few of people who've done time and they said all the sex offenders are locked away in their own special wing specifically to stop them getting their heads bashed in. Mind you different countries do things different I imagine.

I take it on a case by case basis but generally I consider murder to be a worse crime than rape or child molesting. I've known a couple of women who were raped and 1 who was also abused as a child and none of them have ever said they wish they'd been killed, quite the opposite, being alive and carrying on to say "fuck you, you haven't broken me" was one of the things that gave them a bit of solace in the matter.

That said the negative image of prisons is played up massively, the general impression I've got it that as long as you mind your own business you should be ok, the only times bad shit happens is usually over drugs and money owed or issues spilling over from outside, prior grudges and such.

EDIT: PS I voted yes instead of sometimes by accident.

 

[Jamboxdotcom]

Well to me, that seemed like almost the point of what you were saying, if not a very strong implication.
Anyway, I don't think you can say that. You aren't living their lives, and don't have their experiences. You can't make a value judgement on their quality of life, that's theirs and theirs alone to make.
My point is, you can only act as an observer to their life. You don't know what they feel, or if their life is a living hell. I don't think you can say "murder is worse than rape" and be right, because murder is the complete cessation of a persons life, with no chance for experience or improvement or anything else. If they felt that being murdered would seriously have been better then being raped, there wouldn't be any more rape victims because they all would have killed themselves.
And yes, I am aware that some try, and succeed. But at least they have the choice to decide whether to do that or not, whereas murder completely takes away all choice forever.

very fair points, and i apologize for my heavy-handedness. my opinion is based primarily on my step-sister (my father's victim) who is literally certifiable. she's 33 now, and she thinks she's twelve (her age when she was raped). i also have several other friends who, while not AS screwed up, are total basket cases, will never again trust men, and live extremely self-destructive lives. i wouldn't want to see them dead, but it saddens me to see how tormented they are.

 

[Susano]

Well to me, that seemed like almost the point of what you were saying, if not a very strong implication.
Anyway, I don't think you can say that. You aren't living their lives, and don't have their experiences. You can't make a value judgement on their quality of life, that's theirs and theirs alone to make.
My point is, you can only act as an observer to their life. You don't know what they feel, or if their life is a living hell. I don't think you can say "murder is worse than rape" and be right, because murder is the complete cessation of a persons life, with no chance for experience or improvement or anything else. If they felt that being murdered would seriously have been better then being raped, there wouldn't be any more rape victims because they all would have killed themselves.
And yes, I am aware that some try, and succeed. But at least they have the choice to decide whether to do that or not, whereas murder completely takes away all choice forever.

very fair points, and i apologize for my heavy-handedness. my opinion is based primarily on my step-sister (my father's victim) who is literally certifiable. she's 33 now, and she thinks she's twelve (her age when she was raped). i also have several other friends who, while not AS screwed up, are total basket cases, will never again trust men, and live extremely self-destructive lives. i wouldn't want to see them dead, but it saddens me to see how tormented they are.

Ok, that's fair enough, and I can see how someone with your experiences could think that way.
I guess I was a bit nit-picky, but I wouldn't be surprised if someone on the internet genuinely held the opinion that all rape victims are better off dead, because the internet is awful like that.