Poll: Pro Wrestling for Non-Fans

[excalipoor]

People hear "fake" and assume that's all it is. Maybe I like wrestling because it's more of a show than a competition, and I just don't have a competitive bone in my body. But anyone who puts these guys down by dismissing what they do as make-believe doesn't know what they're talking about. Personally I began to enjoy wrestling much more after I embraced the fact that it's not "real," instead of trying to pretend that it is. I like watching the people behind the characters. I like knowing how things work and realizing that these people are actually busting their asses, instead of looking at them and wondering what sort of sleight of hand was used where.

I enjoy technical wrestling much more than pure brawling, and most storylines will have me pulling my hair in anger at how bad they are, but the best moments in wrestling for me are those with a mix of reality and fiction.

Spoiler: Here's a promo Mark LoMonaco did a week back. To anyone not familiar with the man and his history in the business, it probably looks like your average shoot-your-mouth-off pissing contest entry.

Spoiler: So what happened in that match?

He lost.

Spoiler: But wait! He got a rematch!

He lost that too. And he of course knew he would when he shot this promo. But this is a 20-year veteran of the business who completely reinvented himself in the past few years, and he believes he deserves a minute at the top. I agree with him, but TNA creative apparently didn't. He's getting old, probably doesn't have too many years left in him, so you can understand his frustration.

Spoiler: And another. Say what you will about WWE or Chris Benoit, this moment is just beautiful. If you have seen any of his promos, you know that Benoit couldn't fake emotion like that to save his life.

Title belts aren't just handed out to whoever. The champion may not be the best wrestler around, but that doesn't mean they don't have to work for it. The champion is the top guy of the promotion, the guy that fills the seats, and to be that guy you need to prove yourself to the audience, the locker room, and the creative staff, as well as have a great array of talents. Either all that, or just the right look...

Then there's the crowd. It's similar to live music: sure, it's probably not going to sound as good as it does on your headphones, but a good audience can make the experience magic. And this is coming from someone who generally dislikes crowds. Though I do get uncomfortable when the crowd gets bloodthirsty, or boos an injured heel (kayfabe or not). That's just a dick move. I like it better when the guys in the ring can put on a show without destroying each other.

 

[TheCrapMaster]

I wanna know how a match works, is it with points that counts or who the crowd cheers the most for? Because as we all know its not "real fighting", i dont have anything against wrestling, just wondering how the matches work. Because they probably train alot before a match on wich moves they are gonna use before a match and etc.

So my biggest question is, are they free to do what they want under a match but they train before a match so the wrestlers know how to "react" to being tossed around from some signals, or is it just hard practice and remember from start to finish?

Seeing there are "world champions" and such it would be intresting to know.

Im from Sweden so i havent realy encountered much wrestling in my life .

 

[piinyouri]

I wanna know how a match works, is it with points that counts or who the crowd cheers the most for? Because as we all know its not "real fighting", i dont have anything against wrestling, just wondering how the matches work. Because they probably train alot before a match on wich moves they are gonna use before a match and etc.

So my biggest question is, are they free to do what they want under a match but they train before a match so the wrestlers know how to "react" to being tossed around from some signals, or is it just hard practice and remember from start to finish?

Seeing there are "world champions" and such it would be intresting to know.

Im from Sweden so i havent realy encountered much wrestling in my life .

The two wrestlers entering the ring know who is intended to win and lose, and if they are talented enough, that's all they know.
From there they work the match out with each other. If there is going to be a chair or something similiar involved they both know it before hand as well.
They are free to do as they wish, though the match is almost always ended by one or the others finisher.(but not usually until you have about 2 near fall pins) Getting people psyched up is the name of the game, and nothing does it better than having a heel almost pin a face. (Heel = bad guy, face = good guy)
Thing is, not everyone is as professional as the next. Sometimes you get guys, especially young guys, you don't want to end the match with a lose on their side, and keep the match going after it's time to end.
Sometimes one guy may chop a guy in the chest a little harder that what the other guy thought was necessary, and then you have a slightly more real fight. (But this is not really what you want to happen)

The belt titles are all chooses by the promotions leader or president, in the case of WWE, Vince McMahaon. Anytime it trades hands, it's because management thinks it needs to.

 

[DracoSuave]

There are so many ways to work with that.
How about a heel whose gimmick is that he hates wrestling, and is only in for the fame. So he never does good technical wrestling and relies entirely on cheating and uses the fact that he makes more money for doing less to get away with it.
It'd be like a cruel parody of the Rock, but played straight!

We'd love that guy too.

Eddy Guerrero, yo.

 

[Powereaver]

The Lack of Kobashi from Sadako disappoints me when he calls himself a fan

EDIT :- http://www.escapistmagazine.com/groups/view/Wrestling-and-MMA-for-all <- i do suggest the Pro Wrestling User Group for anyone here who considers themselves fans.. we usually have a good enough time in there.. when we can be bothered!

 

[SadakoMoose]

The Lack of Kobashi from Sadako disappoints me when he calls himself a fan

EDIT :- http://www.escapistmagazine.com/groups/view/Wrestling-and-MMA-for-all <- i do suggest the Pro Wrestling User Group for anyone here who considers themselves fans.. we usually have a good enough time in there.. when we can be bothered!

You'll notice that on page two, I posted the backdrop driver of death.

 

[Powereaver]

The Lack of Kobashi from Sadako disappoints me when he calls himself a fan

EDIT :- http://www.escapistmagazine.com/groups/view/Wrestling-and-MMA-for-all <- i do suggest the Pro Wrestling User Group for anyone here who considers themselves fans.. we usually have a good enough time in there.. when we can be bothered!

You'll notice that on page two, I posted the backdrop driver of death.

oh right.. didnt notice that earlier.. guess i had a brainfade.. i do approve of the addition of Kotaro at the front though!

 

[SadakoMoose]

The Lack of Kobashi from Sadako disappoints me when he calls himself a fan

EDIT :- http://www.escapistmagazine.com/groups/view/Wrestling-and-MMA-for-all <- i do suggest the Pro Wrestling User Group for anyone here who considers themselves fans.. we usually have a good enough time in there.. when we can be bothered!

You'll notice that on page two, I posted the backdrop driver of death.

oh right.. didnt notice that earlier.. guess i had a brainfade.. i do approve of the addition of Kotaro at the front though!

Yeah, he's one of my fave NOAH guys. KENTA is up there too, alongside Ricky Marvin and Aoki Atsushi.

 

[Powereaver]

Your lack of Katsuhiko Nakajima disappoints me.... sure hes technically Diamond Ring but hes a former 2 time GHC Jr Champ

 

[SadakoMoose]

I wanna know how a match works, is it with points that counts or who the crowd cheers the most for? Because as we all know its not "real fighting", i dont have anything against wrestling, just wondering how the matches work. Because they probably train alot before a match on wich moves they are gonna use before a match and etc.

So my biggest question is, are they free to do what they want under a match but they train before a match so the wrestlers know how to "react" to being tossed around from some signals, or is it just hard practice and remember from start to finish?

Seeing there are "world champions" and such it would be intresting to know.

Im from Sweden so i havent realy encountered much wrestling in my life .

I know that pinyouri already kind of answered this question, but there are some things I'd like to add.
Many old school pro wrestlers (Funk Brothers, The Destroyer, Billy Robinson etc.) would never plan their matches. They had become so acclimated to wrestling that it was second nature to them, and so if you told them what the ending to a match was and how long you wanted them to wrestle, they could just go out there and do it. Once, and this is a bit of a legend, Dory Funk Jr. had a half hour long title defense without saying a single word to the other guy.

Over time, some wrestlers come to know each other well enough that they can have fantastic matches with little planning. Such as Rey Misterio Jr. and the late Eddie Guerrero.

Others, like the late Randy Savage, could usually bust out one of their common routines for normal matches, but when it came time for a pay per view or other BIG event, he'd plan everything meticulously. His match v. Ricky Steamboat at Wrestlemania 3 is a testament to his planning skill.

Sometimes you call these people "Routine Men". Theses are wrestlers who have a series of moves that they're competent with, and see no need to innovate or try anything new. It's VERY easy to wrestle a Routine man, and some of the biggest stars from the US have been that way.
Notice, I said biggest STARS, not the BEST wrestlers.

So yeah, if you have any other questions don't be afraid to ask!

ps:
I noticed that you were a Swedish gentleman! It's an honest shame that there is so little about Sweden's pro wrestling history on the internet, because I'd love to direct you to some. You'd be surprised how many Europeans have no idea that there's native produced pro wrestling in their countries! Chances are that you may have to go somewhere else in Europe to see locally produced and owned pro wrestling.

 

[SadakoMoose]

Your lack of Katsuhiko Nakajima disappoints me.... sure hes technically Diamond Ring but hes a former 2 time GHC Jr Champ

Given how much I like his kicks, you'd think I'd have put him in earlier.

 

[Kragg]

Sometimes you call these people "Routine Men". Theses are wrestlers who have a series of moves that they're competent with, and see no need to innovate or try anything new. It's VERY easy to wrestle a Routine man, and some of the biggest stars from the US have been that way.
Notice, I said biggest STARS, not the BEST wrestlers.

So yeah, if you have any other questions don't be afraid to ask!

that is actually pretty interesting, could you give like a dozen or so examples of the WWE roster atm so i can sorta see who and what you mean? ^^

ow and if you follow the stuff on WWE, could you give a summary of everything that happened from last wrestlemania till now? ive been out of it (its gotten to be a habit for me to watch it when i catch it, but its on eurosport here and their programming is finicky, i might miss out on a week or 2 then nothing for a month etc)

 

[SadakoMoose]

Sometimes you call these people "Routine Men". Theses are wrestlers who have a series of moves that they're competent with, and see no need to innovate or try anything new. It's VERY easy to wrestle a Routine man, and some of the biggest stars from the US have been that way.
Notice, I said biggest STARS, not the BEST wrestlers.

So yeah, if you have any other questions don't be afraid to ask!

that is actually pretty interesting, could you give like a dozen or so examples of the WWE roster atm so i can sorta see who and what you mean? ^^

ow and if you follow the stuff on WWE, could you give a summary of everything that happened from last wrestlemania till now? ive been out of it (its gotten to be a habit for me to watch it when i catch it, but its on eurosport here and their programming is finicky, i might miss out on a week or 2 then nothing for a month etc)

I've not really been following the WWE, mostly for political reasons, also because it's harder for me to enjoy their product now that I've discovered what I feel to be better stuff on the internet.
But I AM familiar with most of their talent, so here we go:
Alberto Del Rio: Excellent villain, good technical Lucha Libre background, given that he is the son of Dos Caras and the nephew of Mil Mascaras.

Alex Riley: Decent mat power wrestler. Under seasoned, however, as he has never wrestled outside of the WWE system.

Antonio Cesaro: Claudio Castagnoli. One of Switzerland's finest (in not only one of a few) wrestlers. It's worth tracking down his work for Chikara Pro, especially as the leader of Die Bruderschaft des Kreuzes.

Big Show: Formerly one of the better giant wrestlers, he has slowed down significantly over the last decade due to injuries. Hard to believe it, but he was once able to do a moonsault.

Brock Lesnar: Trained in pro wrestling by former US Olympic wrestler Brad Rheingeins, upon his return to the WWE he began using more in the way of submission holds and MMA inspired offense.

Brodus Clay: Yet another wrestler who has never worked outside of the WWE system. Decent super heavyweight, with an infectious smile and personality. A former body guard for Snoop Dogg.

Camacho: 4th generation wrestler, and son of the legendary Haku, he has also never wrestled outside of the WWE system. A decent brawler, playing the role of hired muscle.

Christian: Still a solid technical wrestler after all these years, and still just as underrated as ever.

CM Punk: A good striker with a solid technical base. He is, arguable, the most interesting man in the entire company right now.

Cody Rhodes: You'd think that someone trained by Harley Race would be a lot more impressive, technically speaking. Still, he's a good villain, but has never really impressed me as far as wrestling goes.

Curt Hawkins: A well rounded wrestler that's never used properly. Mostly treated as enhancement talent, unfortunately.

Damien Sandow: An excellent, traditional, mat power wrestler. They currently have him doing a snobbish academic gimmick, which completely underplays just how brutal a villain this guy can be.

Daniel Brian: Pound for pound, the best technical wrestler on the roster. A black belt in Judo, Brian is also one of the most versatile wrestlers currently signed to the WWE, mostly due to the fact that he has wrestled in nearly every country that HAS pro wrestling. Well worth checking out his work from when he was Brian Danielson.

Darren Young: Another well rounded heavyweight wrestler, but given a terrible look and gimmick. He can deliver a good match, but with the way he's marketed, you'd never know it.

David Otunga: Never wrestled outside of the WWE, this graduate of Harvard Law school lucked into marrying a celebrity. Only four years into the business, his main attribute is the fact that he looks muscular and not much else.

Dolph Ziggler: Never wrestled outside the WWE. As far as villains go, he's pretty good, but other than that he's just an average traditional heavyweight with a silly name.

Drew McEntire: A technically gifted wrestler with a solid British wrestling background, but doesn't work for me in the WWE. He also has these stupid looking kneepads.

Dwayne Johnson: He relies mostly on his personality to compensate for the fact that he's only a basic wrestler with large muscles. I'm in the minority when I say this, but I genuinely don't like the Rock. If you've seen one Rock match, you've seen them all.

Epico: Another great, well rounded wrestler! He's done great work on the US Indy circuit and in Puerto Rico. All of which is more interesting than what they have him doing in the WWE.

Evan Bourne: A good high flier, but he keeps getting injured in the WWE. It's worth it to check out his work for WSX.

Ezekial Jackson: An average heavyweight

Great Khali: A giant that can barely move.

I started doing this list with the intention of talking about EVERYBODY, but I quickly realized that it wasn't worth it.
I hope this helps!

 

[Cardbird]

Pfft, seems you hate any wrestler without "Teh indie skills" Dolph is flat out, one of the best in ring workers in the US today. Better than Punk, and just behind Bryan.

 

[SadakoMoose]

I used to like WWF when i was a child but it was always a bit lame. Then many years later i got into TNA for a while but it turned into bullshit over wrestling which annoyed the hell out of me. Nowadays i just watch ROH occasionally but haven't seen any for quite a while.

Why do good wrestling companies always end up turning into boring soap operas?

Why do some comic book companies continue to employ Rob Liefeld?
Have you tried Chikara?

 

[SadakoMoose]

Pfft, seems you hate any wrestler without "Teh indie skills" Dolph is flat out, one of the best in ring workers in the US today. Better than Punk, and just behind Bryan.

Now hang on, I had nice things to say about Alex Riley! He's underutilized, but what I've seen (mostly from FCW)is pretty good.
And yes, I do appreciate an Indy background, because it meant that those guys had to work hard as hell to get where they are. It's easier to make the sort of sacrifices that wrestling requires when you're making 6 digits. Try doing it on 30,000 a year or less.
Honestly, the WWE has a good roster, but they just don't know how to use it.

 

[rwllay]

Pfft, seems you hate any wrestler without "Teh indie skills" Dolph is flat out, one of the best in ring workers in the US today. Better than Punk, and just behind Bryan.

Now hang on, I had nice things to say about Alex Riley! He's underutilized, but what I've seen (mostly from FCW)is pretty good.
And yes, I do appreciate an Indy background, because it meant that those guys had to work hard as hell to get where they are. It's easier to make the sort of sacrifices that wrestling requires when you're making 6 digits. Try doing it on 30,000 a year or less.
Honestly, the WWE has a good roster, but they just don't know how to use it.

to be fair Mr.Ziggles has worked harder than most of the guys with only WWE experience, he's the only surviving member of the Spirit Squad, and boucning back from that fiasco takes more than a little work, but he's a solid worker and to borrow a phrase 'sells better than TNA tickets'.

But you are right about the indy guys having earned their spot, paid their dues, whatevr you want to call it. Doesn't mean you can rule out the guys who came up through WWE either though.

 

[Fishyash]

Every time someone finds out I'm a pro-wrestling fan, the first thing out of their mouth is always that goddamned question: "You know it's fake, right?"

My answers have become more sarcastic every time.

I honestly used to wonder WHY people still asked that question. It seemed kind of obvious.
And then I realized something: Some people actually think we're stupid.
To which I say: Like I'm going to take that from a beer swilling, Tappout wearing, fair weather UFC fan that doesn't even know what Pancrase or PRIDE FC were...
Personal problems, lol.

What? It's fake? No, it must be a lie!

*looks it up*

...

Okay honestly, I really didn't enjoy wrestling at first, especially as a kid when I thought it was real. A recent friend managed to get me a little bit more interested in it now though, telling me of the wrestling since the past couple of decades... and Botchamania.

I have a question for you though, what makes you watch wrestling now? Is it the moves, the fakeness, the writing? Is it anything in particular, something different or the whole package?

 

[SadakoMoose]

Every time someone finds out I'm a pro-wrestling fan, the first thing out of their mouth is always that goddamned question: "You know it's fake, right?"

My answers have become more sarcastic every time.

I honestly used to wonder WHY people still asked that question. It seemed kind of obvious.
And then I realized something: Some people actually think we're stupid.
To which I say: Like I'm going to take that from a beer swilling, Tappout wearing, fair weather UFC fan that doesn't even know what Pancrase or PRIDE FC were...
Personal problems, lol.

What? It's fake? No, it must be a lie!

*looks it up*

...

Okay honestly, I really didn't enjoy wrestling at first, especially as a kid when I thought it was real. A recent friend managed to get me a little bit more interested in it now though, telling me of the wrestling since the past couple of decades... and Botchamania.

I have a question for you though, what makes you watch wrestling now? Is it the moves, the fakeness, the writing? Is it anything in particular, something different or the whole package?

Honestly, I enjoy wrestling for many reasons, but most of all it's my favorite performance art. Right above clowning (PROPER Clowning, not the birthday stuff. See Charlie Cairoli or Bello Nock) and stunt work. I love it because of my appreciation of the craftsmanship that goes into even a good match. It can tell so many different kinds of stories, from the fine comedy of Colt Cabana or Les Kellet
and yet it can also be used to create epic struggles, in a way that isn't canned but fresh and live.
I SERIOUSLY recommend watching Tsuruta vs Misawa.
You can just feel the tension building as the match reaches it's finale.
But yea, most of the wrestling I watch now is basically career research and study, since that's where I'll be headed as soon as I can get the money together!

 

[SadakoMoose]

Here's a sticky one!
Around 2006, lady wrestler Emi Sakura created a program to teach young girls how to do pro wrestling. From this, a company called Ice Ribbon emerged:
I assure you, it is completely innocent and (by all accounts) very safe.
First person to assume that this is something dirty, and make a racist comment about the Japanese being perverts, receives nothing but my utmost disrespect!