Poll: Random Encounters vs Known Encounters in JRPGs

[aegix drakan_v1legacy]

Known encounters. Known encounters ALL THE WAY, except in dungeon crawlers.

If I'm playing a story-based JRPG, having random encounters happen kinda kills the flow and the mood and is not only jarring, but it's dumb design. If I, as a player have no idea when to expect an encounter, then it feels like the game is deliberately toying with me and that I have no control. That's a bad feeling.

Dungeon crawlers get a pass, though, since the way the game is designed, having to go through many many encounters to wear down your party and supplies is the whole point. Although I DO prefer to have a "proximity" alarm (a la Etrian odyssey), which warns you when you're close to being ganked by a random encounter. It's very helpful and causes tension and anticipation.

I've made a few RPGs myself and I have ALWAYS stuck with Known Encounters. It's more fun that way, and can turn simple patrol routes of monsters into a mini-puzzle of sorts.

Although when I do finally get to making that sci-fi dungeon crawler, I'll be using the "random encounters with proximity warning" thing.

 

[aegix drakan_v1legacy]

Oh and by the way, anyone who implements random encounters, but makes the encounter rate really really high (like...you can literally take two steps and risk being ganked again), and then makes the battles take a long time? They need to be kicked in the nads.

*glares at Black Sigil, Blade of the Exiled* Fun game, neat story, I wanna know what happens. But random battles every 2-40 steps, at pure random? Where half the time I get into an encounter about every 10 steps? And battles drag on for 3-5 minutes? AUGH, WHY?

 

[bartholen_v1legacy]

Known encounters. Random encounters are okay for games that were made when technology just didn't allow all monsters to be rendered on screen, but nowadays there's no excuse for it IMO, unless you're deliberately aiming for a retro experience, see Cthulhu Saves the World. Having monsters pop out of fucking nowhere only further underlines the separation of the gameworld and the universe where the combat takes place.

 

[Maximum Bert]

I suppose I tend to favour known but I dont mind random either and they need not be mutually exclusive either I do tend to find that the ones with random battles tend to have more interesting combat mechanics (not always ofc just generally).

As others have said either can be done well or poorly I dont want a random battle every second equally I dont want a load of enemies I can see who I have no interesting way to engage.

I do think there is more room to expand on a mix between the two. My own personal favourite combat system in an RPG is the Last Story which was known encounters but my favourite RPG (and game) uses random.

 

[thoughtwrangler]

I can tolerate random encounters, when the encounter rate isn't too high. Or when they don't decide to f*ck things up by having puzzles (this is me giving Final Fantasy X a death glare. Screw your Cloisters and screw your Trials).

But it really serves little purpose except to skimp on technology, and it's highly unnecessary these days. I can't help but think of invisible random encounters as laziness. It just seems cheesy for a developer to show me a world of stunning vistas, but when it comes to conflict and battle can't be bothered to do more than enter an algorithm. "Yeah, we moved a couple settings on a slider and entered a few probability equations. Just pretend you're being attacked by really stealthy monsters, guys."

A good example of how this can change gameplay is Dragon Quest. Up until Dragon Quest IX, standard encounters were invisible (though DQ VIII experimented with having strong or notorious monsters visible on the world map.) Dragon Quest IX changed all that by showing enemies on the world map.

To be perfectly fair, these are still "random" encounters. Different monsters may appear on different areas of the map, but a key difference is that they are visible, and can be dodged. And, unlike previous DQ games, it also means that monsters can be *hunted* which turns combat from a grindy obstacle and something the player can really engage in.

 

[Islandbuffilo]

Only advantage I could think of with random encounters is there's usually more of a variety of monsters, which isn't really even an advantage considering not all monsters give the same amount of EXP. Known encounters also makes it easier to farm certain items.

 

[RandV80]

I have no real preference, see pro's & cons with both and it more depends on the game. So how about both? Random encounters for the overworld map, known encounters + adventure elements/puzzles for dungeons. Can't think of many games but Lufia 2 way back on the SNES comes to mind.

 

[DanielBrown]

I prefer random encounters.
I'm guessing it's mostly due to nostalgic reasons since my first JRPG experience was FFVIII. When I played it as a kid I always loved not knowing what I would face until after the cutscenes. It could be a one-hit-kill bug or a huge fucking dinosaur that would wipe the floor with me. I also feel less stressed fleeing from a random encounter than trying to evade a known one who keeps charging at me.

It's fucking annoying when you don't want to fight battles though.

 

[Scarim Coral]

Known for sure!

Random can be too random at times like in Pokemon, I beaten one wild Pokemon and then I just take a couple of steps and I in another encounter!

Granted Known is not perfect mainly when the creature/ enemy is position in a small or narrow space making it hard to get pass it without getting an encounter especially if it's the type that chase you when it spotted you!

 

[Danbo Jambo]

I can't honestly vote for either option because each one creates a different 'feel' for the game.

Known encounters makes the gameplay flow better as there is no interruptions, however, it makes the encounters more 'safe'. Basically, known encounters are just that: known. There is little tension before the encounter, you know there is an enemy at that place, and you can choose how you want to engage with that foe, if at all. Simple, and gives lots of control to the player.

However, sometimes that level of player control could be detrimental to the game as a whole. Random encounters create a more tense atmosphere where a monster can come out of nowhere and eat you alive. If a location is deemed dangerous because it's filled with dangerous monsters that hunt people, the encounters there work better random. In fact, there have been entire sub-genre of RPGs that thrive on this level of tension: the dungeon crawler. Give the player a winding dungeon (or forest, or whatever) to get through with limited supplies, combine that with monsters that come out of nowhere to attack them, throw in a dash of surprises in the dungeon, and you get a game that thrives in part *because* the encounters are random. Instead of planning how to fight each encounter on their own, the player plans out whole dungeon runs. Perhaps the first time they stick their head in to gauge the strength of the foes, and the next they push in as far as they can, until they run out of resources or the player encounters a monster that they weren't expecting to encounter. It's one of my favorite types of RPGs.

That said, random encounters work best if the monsters generally are enough of a threat that the players might lose the encounter... or at least use up resources that are limited. Any game that you can just press 'A' to win, or has little emphasis on resource management, will probably now be a good fit for random encounters.

That's a brilliant post.

The tension created by random encounters is often underestimated IMO. I don't mind either, but my favourite JRPGs all have random encounters.

It's more about how it's done rather than what's done IMO. Some JRPG's are just a rediculous slog because of the over-frequency of random encounters, & confusing dungeons/maps. But done right none of that is an issue.

What I like to see is a well balanced random encounter system, but one which you have an item to negate any encounters for 36/60/whatever seconds, so that you can push on if you want to do something in particular. Random encounters are fine when just making your way somewhere, but it's nice to be able to go for a switch or in to a particular room etc without any encounters when you've a particular objective in mind and don't want to be distracted. Save points are also a big consideration. Real life exists, and often when you play you just sometimes need to save so you can pop out, have dinner, or whatever. Trudging through to a save point in those scenarios is very annoying.

I only think known encounters really work as well if you have to really try to avoid the encounters. When you pick and choose battles it feels a bit pointless and like level up padding.

 

[Bad Jim]

Save points are also a big consideration. Real life exists, and often when you play you just sometimes need to save so you can pop out, have dinner, or whatever. Trudging through to a save point in those scenarios is very annoying.

Why not just allow the player to save anywhere? Does it really break the game? If it does, can there not be some kind of limit that still allows players to save and switch off whenever necessary? Maybe delete your 'anywhere' save when you reload, with your checkpoint saves to fall back on if something goes horribly wrong?

 

[flying_whimsy]

I prefer random (especially if there's some way to turn off the encounters like the GF ability in FFVIII), although it has its flaws (repetition, relentless grinding, RNG-determined enemies).

Mainly, the reason I don't like known encounters is because the game for me almost always becomes a cat and mouse game of avoiding the enemies; which always becomes an issue down the road because the game always punishes you for not grinding. Xenosaga 3 managed to make it more fun by putting in environment bonuses so it was a ton of fun to lead enemies into traps that would then give bonuses in combat (the risk being that if they caught you on the run you'd inevitably be back-attacked).

 

[aozgolo]

I like Known but not limited, basically how Final Fantasy XII handled it I think worked great, enemies would respawn on a map but only a certain number of times, after that you had to leave the map and return later to get respawns.

 

[Someone Depressing]

Random encounters are annoying, especially when you have to fight the same enemy party over and over again. Not that known encounters don't have their own disadvantages - requiring more animation frames, having the potential to be just as annoying, ect - though I greatly prefer them.

 

[Danbo Jambo]

Save points are also a big consideration. Real life exists, and often when you play you just sometimes need to save so you can pop out, have dinner, or whatever. Trudging through to a save point in those scenarios is very annoying.

Why not just allow the player to save anywhere? Does it really break the game? If it does, can there not be some kind of limit that still allows players to save and switch off whenever necessary? Maybe delete your 'anywhere' save when you reload, with your checkpoint saves to fall back on if something goes horribly wrong?

Very good shout. Personally I don't see any issue with saving anywhere, and think your alternative is one worth consideration too.

I love JRPG's, but for me the big gaps between save points have been their most frsutrating aspect as I've aged and not been able to dedicated the time to gaming I once could.

 

[Islandbuffilo]

Two good examples of how to improve random encounters:
1. After finishing the area first time, let the player disable them (Wild Arms 4).
2. Have a set amount of encounters for the area (Ar Tonelico).

Option two would seem like a hindrance for some games who's appeal is grinding or involves a lot of farming.

Save points are also a big consideration. Real life exists, and often when you play you just sometimes need to save so you can pop out, have dinner, or whatever. Trudging through to a save point in those scenarios is very annoying.

Why not just allow the player to save anywhere? Does it really break the game? If it does, can there not be some kind of limit that still allows players to save and switch off whenever necessary? Maybe delete your 'anywhere' save when you reload, with your checkpoint saves to fall back on if something goes horribly wrong?

Very good shout. Personally I don't see any issue with saving anywhere, and think your alternative is one worth consideration too.

I love JRPG's, but for me the big gaps between save points have been their most frsutrating aspect as I've aged and not been able to dedicated the time to gaming I once could.

Most JRPGs let you save anywhere outside of combat, and a lot let you make temp saves.

 

[Danbo Jambo]

Most JRPGs let you save anywhere outside of combat, and a lot let you make temp saves.

Good to hear. As you've probably guessed I'm talking more old school ones, and I'm still playing games from the PS2 + early 360 era.

 

[Mimic]

I'm really not a fan of Random battles so Known all the way. For me they feel like they interrupt the flow of the game.

 

[sXeth]

The "invisible enemies randomly assail you" is a mechanic that really has no place in modern gaming, I'd say. That said, you could certainly have low-visibility sections, and randomly spawned (but visible prior to combat, within environmental limitations) encounters without being particularly annoying. The 100% Known encounters from Chrono Trigger or more recently Dragons Dogma, wherein the same enemy is always at the same location, start to become equally tedious in games where you tread through a location more then once.

 

[KenAri]

Random encounters annoy me, but I see why devs make them (So so so much easier to program than known ones).
I also appreciate that random encounters give a sense of danger to the world. If it's meant to be a dangerous world, I like feeling that I'm never safe. In games with no random encounters, I can just wander around with 1hp and as long as I keep my eyes on the screen, I'm 100% safe. This is really bad for my enjoyment; I love feeling endangered.

But my favourite of all are tabletop D&D encounters that can be smooth-talked out of.