Poll: Recognizing same-sex marriage for non-residents

[capacollo]

Here is the article...

Despite legal about-face, Harper has no intention of reopening gay marriage

In a nutshell, it seems that a same-sex couple who have gotten married in Canada(where it is recognized legally) is trying to divorce however they cannot since Canada did not recognize it legally in the first place. Reason being where they both reside, same-sex marriage is not legally recognized hence Canada does not as well.

This to me seems like a legal issue and as such is cut and dry. However in the forums people did not seem to agree and chastise the government for this. I just wanted to get everyone's take and perspective on it here. Admittedly I do not know much more of it than this article so any additional info would be welcomed.

Just to note I'm not against same-sex marriage and recognizing it is not the issue but rather the point of should it be recognized legally in a case such as this.

 

[Helmholtz Watson]

Here is the article...

Despite legal about-face, Harper has no intention of reopening gay marriage

In a nutshell, it seems that a same-sex couple who have gotten married in Canada(where it is recognized legally) is trying to divorce however they cannot since Canada did not recognize it legally in the first place. Reason being where they both reside, same-sex marriage is not legally recognized hence Canada does not as well.

This to me seems like a legal issue and as such is cut and dry. However in the forums people did not seem to agree and chastise the government for this. I just wanted to get everyone's take and perspective on it here. Admittedly I do not know much more of it than this article so any additional info would be welcomed.

Just to note I'm not against same-sex marriage and recognizing it is not the issue but rather the point of should it be recognized legally in a case such as this.

wait....they got married in Canada, but they divorce....because Canada doesn't recognize the marriage, or the divorce? I'm confused, did the Canadian government give them the ok to get married in the first place?

 

[capacollo]

Here is the article...

Despite legal about-face, Harper has no intention of reopening gay marriage

...

wait....they got married in Canada, but they divorce....because Canada doesn't recognize the marriage, or the divorce? I'm confused, did the Canadian government give them the ok to get married in the first place?

This is what I am unsure of also. Usually you require a marriage license to be signed and submitted even if it is done at a church.

 

[ten.to.ten]

This creates a whole bunch of problems. What happens if a gay couple marries in Canada and their home state/country legally recognises gay marriages performed overseas as civil unions equivalent to marriage? Are those people suddenly going to find out that for all this time they haven't been living in a legitimate partnership because technically it wasn't a marriage?

What about a gay Canadian married couple who move overseas to a country that doesn't have full marriage equality? As soon as they leave Canada does the Canadian government just trash their relationship status? Do they have to remarry if they move back to Canada later?

What about gay couples who marry in Canada but live in a place that doesn't give legal recognition to gay couples at all, and then some time later that place implements marriage equality? Does their marriage suddenly pop back into existence?

If a gay couple marry in Canada, go back to their home country without marriage equality but one person in that couple successfully applies for a Canadian work visa will he not be allowed to automatically bring his spouse with him because their marriage dissolved the moment they left Canada the first time?

Not even touching on the gut wrenching heartache that these couples will feel if they have their marriages invalidated, all of these questions and more need to be answered, and the answers could seriously fuck people's lives up.

It sounds to me like the government knows that they can't repeal marriage equality in Canada but don't want Canada to be the gay marriage Mecca of the rest of the world. If they limit marriage for foreigners to people who already live in a country with full marriage equality, far, far fewer people are going to turn up, since there'd be little point when they can just do it at home. Surely it wouldn't be hard to implement a policy that allows foreigners to apply to have their Canadian marriages dissolved if they can submit sworn statements that they're no longer together, show documentation that they've been living apart for a certain amount of time and pay a processing fee. Somehow I can't see Harper being very interested in implementing something like this, though.

 

[capacollo]

This creates a whole bunch of problems. What happens if a gay couple marries in Canada and their home state/country legally recognises gay marriages performed overseas as civil unions equivalent to marriage? Are those people suddenly going to find out that for all this time they haven't been living in a legitimate partnership because technically it wasn't a marriage?

I believe from what I read that in that case it would be recognized.

What about a gay Canadian married couple who move overseas to a country that doesn't have full marriage equality? As soon as they leave Canada does the Canadian government just trash their relationship status? Do they have to remarry if they move back to Canada later?

From what I thought you require a marriage license in Canada to register your relationship status. Whether it is foreign or not may be up to the government to recognize so if the country you marry in does not recognize I'm pretty sure you'll have to get married again in Canada.

...

Yah you made alot of valid points and from what I see Harper is sitting on the fence on this one more so as to either ride it out or be in position where he does not have to back track. But then again would you expect any less from someone in politcs?

 

[Blind Sight]

Also has to do with legal issues with the Canada Divorce Act as well. You get into a legal gray area when it comes to foreign gay divorce, as the act states that individuals must live in the country for at least a year before they can divorce. Not to mention issues like child custody or alimony which the Canadian government has no say in. Makes it a complex legal issue.

 

[Nielas]

Also has to do with legal issues with the Canada Divorce Act as well. You get into a legal gray area when it comes to foreign gay divorce, as the act states that individuals must live in the country for at least a year before they can divorce. Not to mention issues like child custody or alimony which the Canadian government has no say in. Makes it a complex legal issue.

Marriage is legally much simpler than divorce. It makes sense that a country would not wish to grant divorce to non-residents since it is very hard to enforce the court's decision and you get a messy jurisdictional dispute if a court in another country rules different on the issue.

Considering the way the Harper government is backtracking on this issue, it seems to me that someone made a blunder and did not fully discuss this with the Prime Minister's Office before filling the brief in court. There is no way this could have ended positively for the Conservative government and Harper is politically savvy enough to avoid a minefield like this. If this was done with his approval than he really messed up.

 

[Sir Prize]

Okay here's where my confusion lies.
If they got married there, why can't they get divorced there, or is it a case of they got married somewhere else?

 

[AdmiralMemo]

The law is the law. Whether that law is right is up for debate and laws can be changed. But if the current law in Canada, Florida, and England doesn't recognize the marriage as valid, no divorce is needed in this case.

Seems pretty cut and dry to me.

 

[Slippers]

Simple. No.

Something the Canadians, or whoever else, believe is correct should not influence the position of an independent state.

 

[Blind Sight]

Okay here's where my confusion lies.
If they got married there, why can't they get divorced there, or is it a case of they got married somewhere else?

I posted this above, but I'll just say it again to clarify. Divorce in Canada is defined by the Canada Divorce Act, which states that for a divorce to take place the individuals must both have lived in Canada for at least a year. This means that divorces for foreign gay marriages aren't technically legal based on Canadian law. Also, typical divorce conditions, such as child custody or alimony, are something that Canadian law has no say in for foreign couples because they have no way to legally apply it due to sovereignty laws. Thus, it's far easier for the Department of Justice to nullify foreign gay marriages then deal with a massive amount of lawsuits, legal reconstructions, and debates over Canadian law vs. foreign national law.

 

[JayElleBee]

Eh, I say it should be treated just how a heterosexual marriage in the same situation would be treated.

 

[Blind Sight]

Eh, I say it should be treated just how a heterosexual marriage in the same situation would be treated.

It can't work that way because Canadian heterosexual civil unions are recognized by foreign countries, while gay marriages are typically not. This means that any verdict declared is null and void in their home country. And that still doesn't deal with the Canada Divorce Act issue I mention above, which applies to both heterosexual and homosexual marriage.

 

[Vicarious Reality]

I don't even understand why the state has anything to do with marriage?

 

[Aidinthel]

I don't even understand why the state has anything to do with marriage?

There have to be records of marriage for tax reasons, next-of-kin, inheritance, etc.

OT: So a marriage is only valid if both person's home countries recognize it as valid. That makes perfect sense to me; why is this an issue?