Poll: Regenerating health
- Thread starter ToysforGuns
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The only company I trust with health bars is Valve. If you end a fight with 3% health there's an immediate question "Do I reload?". With any other developer you pretty much have to, there's a definite chance you're already dead and there's nothing that can be done to get to the next available health pack. Valve do enough testing that there's always a way out of any situation. But that's pretty rare in gaming. If it's an actual question then that kind of metagame decision is more atmosphere breaking than your grizzled WW2 veteran regenerating in a burst of light and DBZ style powering up.
Ultimately it's a lot of work for little gain, though there really does need to be a bit more variety in how it's approached. Some games should have no in-combat regeneration, some games should have more subtle regeneration and health packs and some games should use the present damage shield system. As it stands every shooter is the same which is kind of a pity.
As far as the logic goes more work does need to be done to present it as luck/nerve. In CoD while you have "health" bullets on target should veer subtly away with the animation representing panic more than bleeding. Would be tricky to get right so you could still tell if you were "hitting" but would do a lot more for the atmosphere than specular flip-flopping.
Ultimately it's a lot of work for little gain, though there really does need to be a bit more variety in how it's approached. Some games should have no in-combat regeneration, some games should have more subtle regeneration and health packs and some games should use the present damage shield system. As it stands every shooter is the same which is kind of a pity.
As far as the logic goes more work does need to be done to present it as luck/nerve. In CoD while you have "health" bullets on target should veer subtly away with the animation representing panic more than bleeding. Would be tricky to get right so you could still tell if you were "hitting" but would do a lot more for the atmosphere than specular flip-flopping.
The best application I've seen of Regenerating vs pickup health is the Conduit. Yeah, that piece of junk actually did something right.
Your health recovers VERY slowly (via healthbar) AND you also have to run around and pick up first aid kits when you can't afford it.
Of course you can be stupid and sit yourself in a corner and cry for a few hours, but it keeps the combat more intense with the ability to go for an extended period then you normally would if you were using a regular health system.
Play both sides!
EDIT: Read some above posts. I'd forgotten Halo did this also. BEST application of regen vs bar I've ever seen, not conduit, but they're the most recent.
Your health recovers VERY slowly (via healthbar) AND you also have to run around and pick up first aid kits when you can't afford it.
Of course you can be stupid and sit yourself in a corner and cry for a few hours, but it keeps the combat more intense with the ability to go for an extended period then you normally would if you were using a regular health system.
Play both sides!
EDIT: Read some above posts. I'd forgotten Halo did this also. BEST application of regen vs bar I've ever seen, not conduit, but they're the most recent.
A game already did this...check out Alpha Protocol. Had an "Endurance" meter that would deplete first and regen over time, and when that hit zero, you lost permanent health, that could only be recovered through pretty rare health pickups.Sansha said:
I prefer a mix of the two. For example, you have 100 life total that does not regenerate. However, the bottom 25 will heal SLOWLY when not getting hurt. This way you have an incentive to play cautiously, but are less likely to get stuck backtracking for health kits before you can move on.
Overall though, life regeneration is a good system. It can make things too easy, but it solves a lot of problems games faced before it came along.
Oh, but still I would advise against sending the idea to developers. They're opening themselves up legally if you do and they implement the system.
Overall though, life regeneration is a good system. It can make things too easy, but it solves a lot of problems games faced before it came along.
The Otogi games did this too. Worked very well for them, as small damage did very little if you were careful but became a huge pain if you weren't, and made heavy attacks all the more devastating. But the point remained that with care you can get out of a fight technically unharmed (or relatively, at least), even if you slipped up a little at non-critical moments.Dragonborne88 said:
Oh, but still I would advise against sending the idea to developers. They're opening themselves up legally if you do and they implement the system.
ive always liked the Health bars that regenerate Too a point, but as you take More damage, the health bar Shortens, thus Needing you to get medical Aid
Ahh, my favourite shooters (Aside from NOLF 1+2) are Ghost Recon and Rainbow Six (The proper ones) they had the best health system, if one of your team gets hit, they're dead, or if you're lucky maybe just crippled for the rest of the mission and then out of action for a couple of months of plot time. Multiplayer was some intense stuff with those games.
Just play Battlefield 2.themrwinkleman said:
Actually, the whole class based multiplayer (a la Team Fortress 2, Halo Reach, Killzone 3, etc) should be more encouraged as a whole. Not only does it add more depth and strategy to combat, but it solves some issues associated with static health games like having a medic class to dissuade camping the health spawn points. You could probably even have a class with some health regeneration as a bone to the pansies who desperately require it.
I believe it really depends on the game. As stated earlier, games like FEAR and Half Life had a wonderfully balanced health bar/pack system. Although I don't really mind regenerating health, I just sometimes feel like it kills the whole shooter experience when I don't really have to worry so much about healing.
At the same time, I can see how this works well in a developers standpoint. It gives way to adding more action to replace scavenger hunting for medpacks. I guess we can all agree to disagree that it's based on preference but it never really ultimately cripples the experience too much.
At the same time, I can see how this works well in a developers standpoint. It gives way to adding more action to replace scavenger hunting for medpacks. I guess we can all agree to disagree that it's based on preference but it never really ultimately cripples the experience too much.
Halo 1 and Reach did regeneration well in my opinion. You regenerated your shield, but your health needed medkits, which is probably some sort of localized pain killer and the 'bio-foam' used in ODST, whereas the Elites have a predator style medical system, that heals on it's own.
I don't really like the idea of health bars myself, but I prefer it to BL-BL-BL-BLOOODY SCREEEEENS! So Realistic!
Regeneration done incorrectly makes it seem a bit odd as you suddenly have half-you head blown off, only to have it re-appear after a moment of hiding behind a large rock.
Honestly, I would prefer a DF style health system. "The .50 calliber round pierces the eye, piercing the skull and pierces the brain. You are dead.[Finish]"
I don't really like the idea of health bars myself, but I prefer it to BL-BL-BL-BLOOODY SCREEEEENS! So Realistic!
Regeneration done incorrectly makes it seem a bit odd as you suddenly have half-you head blown off, only to have it re-appear after a moment of hiding behind a large rock.
Honestly, I would prefer a DF style health system. "The .50 calliber round pierces the eye, piercing the skull and pierces the brain. You are dead.[Finish]"
I totally agree that health items and stuff like that are good for some games while regenerating health is good for others.believer258 said:
However, I prefer FPS's that have health items, as compared to the majority of health regeneration games that i have played, these require more strategy to them.
Have you ever seen somebody in CoD that just goes around spraying with a gun doing better than someone who actually uses tactics and skill? Personally I have seen it happen too many times and have just lost interest in the multiplayer.
As for the singleplayer, all I did was enter an area, find cover, pop out, shoot somebody, hide in cover than keep doing that till they all die. I never found the singleplayer that difficult because even if i get shot, i now know where they are and i'll still have full health. No way would I have done something similar without health regeneration.
I'm not saying games with health regeneration are bad (or at least not trying to), but I just prefer my FPS's with health items.
Personally I like the system used in Halo: Combat Evolved.
You have a shield bar which recharges to full when not being fired at. If it drops right down and you get shot again, it starts taking away the units of health underneath. Use all them up and you're dead. You need health packs to replenish the units of health. At least you'll always have your shield.
But my favourite method for health is MGS3 Snake Eater style. A stamina bar and a health bar. You need to eat to keep your stamina up and you have to physically treat your wounds to be able to heal the health bar to full capacity. You can eat all the snakes you like but if you have a broken leg your health bar will never be full until you treat it properly.
You have a shield bar which recharges to full when not being fired at. If it drops right down and you get shot again, it starts taking away the units of health underneath. Use all them up and you're dead. You need health packs to replenish the units of health. At least you'll always have your shield.
But my favourite method for health is MGS3 Snake Eater style. A stamina bar and a health bar. You need to eat to keep your stamina up and you have to physically treat your wounds to be able to heal the health bar to full capacity. You can eat all the snakes you like but if you have a broken leg your health bar will never be full until you treat it properly.
Regenerating health works well in games that are about the action. Games that resource management is a core part of (such as L4D) should avoid it. I also must say I sick of the complaint that it is just ridiculous and therefore bad, as though realism sould get in the way of fun (unless that's what the game's going for of course), or that taping a med-kit to your massive chest wound and having it instantly close up is any less ridiculous.
Also, regenerating health does not make a game inherently easier than one with a health bar since regeneration usually always mean you have less health overall and therefore a mistake in combat could get you killed, where as a health bar just means you lost a bit more health than you should have. It also avoid the pproblem of ending up in the room of the giant boss of murder and death with only two health, not a fun situation to ever be in.
Also, regenerating health does not make a game inherently easier than one with a health bar since regeneration usually always mean you have less health overall and therefore a mistake in combat could get you killed, where as a health bar just means you lost a bit more health than you should have. It also avoid the pproblem of ending up in the room of the giant boss of murder and death with only two health, not a fun situation to ever be in.
...the biggest problem I have with regenerating health is that it's a crappy solution to the problem of giving the player a fresh start for each encounter. If the player healed after an encounter and there was no such thing as health packs, I'd be fine with it. Unfortunately as it stands, a player can theoretically be shot an infinite number of times in a single encounter to no ill effect... as long as they take cover every so often. That, to me, is completely immersion-breaking. I don't want to play as a perpetual-motion cellular regeneration machine. Input is required for recovery from damage.
It depends on the game.
In general though, I find myself mostly seeking for a place to hide in the games where health regenerates, and doing reckless things(Suicide attack! Run away runaway! hide! Do it again!), as opposed to games where I'll need to conserve my health.
I guess since I got used to non-regerating health when I was first playing games, I like that system more, especially if the game has an element of survival to it.
But it depends on the game, and I suppose a combination of both is for the best. I do recall having to start over few games because I had saved it in a place where I had little health.
In general though, I find myself mostly seeking for a place to hide in the games where health regenerates, and doing reckless things(Suicide attack! Run away runaway! hide! Do it again!), as opposed to games where I'll need to conserve my health.
I guess since I got used to non-regerating health when I was first playing games, I like that system more, especially if the game has an element of survival to it.
But it depends on the game, and I suppose a combination of both is for the best. I do recall having to start over few games because I had saved it in a place where I had little health.
Regenerating health isn't inherently bad, it's just overpowered as hell the vast the majority of the time. It's perfectly reasonable that between encounters your health would regenerate so that you go into every fight prepared. It's ridiculous when just sitting there for 10 seconds will get you out of almost any jam.
It wasn't particularly fun to be forced to scour a map for health so you could be prepared for a boss fight, but I'd much rather have that than sucking your thumb in a corner as a viable boss fight strategy.
It wasn't particularly fun to be forced to scour a map for health so you could be prepared for a boss fight, but I'd much rather have that than sucking your thumb in a corner as a viable boss fight strategy.
