Poll: School District about to Get Sued

[Mercsenary]

yes, its a public area, you have the right to pray there as long as it does not interfere with the school teaching.

It's not even just interfering with teaching.

If you are a public employee and are acting in official capacity, you cannot take an action that would be seen as endorsing a religion. It is a violation of the First Amendment. Engel v. Vitale ruled it illegal for a school to compose an official prayer and mandate its students to recite even though you can refuse to do so.

 

[ImperialSunlight]

If this is a public school then this is absolutely ridiculous. Hell, I have a problem with us in Canada having to stand every day for our national anthem which has a reference to God. Religion has no place in a public school unless it is taught in a specified class that includes all religions equally and is completely unbias.

Edit: Of course, it would be fine if someone just prayed to themselves.

 

[Jake the Snake]

The law in the US says any kind of prayer backed/supported/encouraged by a public school or public school staff member is unconstitutional. The boy stood up for what was legal, and he stood up for what was right.

 

[ProfessorLayton]

I don't understand why it would be a big deal one way or another. Much like the pledge of allegiance. If you don't want to, you don't have to participate. Now, I don't know the exact laws for this in his region and I didn't watch the video (I'm listening to music right now and I'm not in the mood to get upset) but I did see that whatever she said was probably hateful towards people who believe differently than her and it lasted for much longer than it probably should have but it doesn't matter. I can guarantee that if an atheist stood up there and for three and half minutes just complained about religion, the response would have been much different on both sides.

If it's a law, it shouldn't be, but that doesn't make it right. I can understand why the school should get in trouble for this, but acting like the kid is a hero or something is laughable.

 

[emissary666]

The constitution grants me the right of freedom both of and to religion. I don't care if you pray in your free time, but saying a prayer at my graduation is infringing on my right to be free of your religion, and I am in the right if I ask/demand that you stop.
As a former Satanist (symbolic; now atheist), I am very uncomfortable around people praying and ever since I was a kid I have been terrified of churches. Being silent while others are praying is not easy for everyone, I either get violently enraged or sent into a panic attack in this event. In a public school, it is illegal for the school to lead a prayer and, in both videos, the prayer given/held by of a school appointed speaker.

 

[DanielDeFig]

Individuals within a school should have the freedom to do whatever they want (within the limits of the law).

But under no circumstance should a public school single out one religion and integrate it into any of its policy or events.

 

[Phoenix_XIII]

This reminds me of when a Christian Club at our school (A damn PUBLIC school)put up signs all around th school that said in big letters "GOD IS REAL" because Atheists at our school decided to make a club for themselves since the Christians did it.

My buddy and I are Pagans so we would've torn the signs down immediately upon site but apparently teachers decided to step in first.

My opinion is, keep religion out of school, government, and everything. If you want to wear religious symbols, go ahead. Just don't shove your religion into my face.

On a related note, why does the Pledge of Allegiance force you to say "Under God" in it no matter what religion you are in school? I thought Freedom of Religion was what our country was founded on.

 

[Duskflamer]

Is it alright for a school to force a student to pray: No.

Is it alright for a student to pray in school on their own: Yes.

Is it alright for a school function to lead a prayer: Dubious, but I'd say it would be best not to. If students who don't want to participate can sit out it might be legal, but it's a bit of a grey area.

 

[Phoenix_XIII]

http://friendlyatheist.com/2011/05/20/this-district-is-about-to-get-sued/

I was Browsing Fark and i saw this article. it blows my mind that prayer is still such an integral part of a schools graduation ceremony when it has been deemed illegal several times by the supreme court. I myself am an Atheist, however i do believe people are allowed to believe whatever they want to believe in private, in public especially places built by and paid for by the Federal Government religion has no place. Your Thoughts?

EDIT:Imagine the poll says "is it okay for a public school to lead a prayer?" im a newb dont know how to change poll.

Press edit, scroll down, and when you see the poll, you should be able to change the title of it.

 

[Lem0nade Inlay]

As a Catholic, this really sickens me.

I believe that you should be allwoed to pray in school, and I feel that it's okay, if a particular student wants to, they can say in a speech "Thank you God for a wonderful year" however that is about it, I do not think that they should go on for any longer than that.

This story really just makes me angry, how dare the school do nothing about it when that girl went on and spoke for over three minutes.

And how dare that teacher say those things about Damon.

Times like this I hate being lumped in with other Religious people...

 

[Blind Sight]

This is a public school, correct? Not a private or specifically religious high school of any kind? If it is a public school then yes, there should be no collective prayers going on in general in my opinion (and also legally). The moment of silence suggested is the best way, individuals who are religious may privately pray at that time in any way they see fit. From the video included in the link, the Christian faith is playing far too large a role for a ceremony at a public school, to the point where that speech basically demonizes non-believers. Unless you have specifically chosen to go to a faith-based school religion should remain out of education. Of course, should you wish to bring up your own spiritual beliefs there is nothing wrong with that. But this institutionalized system of faith is sickening really.

He's standing up for his legal rights directly against a vast majority, and I salute him for it.

 

[crimson sickle2]

I believe that prayer shouldn't be forced by a school, it's supposed to be a place of knowledge, not of faith. If the school allows the students to not pray or it's a known religious, private school, then I'm fine with prayer being a part of a school ceremony.

 

[spartan231490]

Denied basic human rights, arrested, and murdered for their lack of faith. When? I'm honestly curious, because I can't recall a single incident when Atheists were the target of discrimination. I'm sure it happened all the time in the Mid-eval era and before that, but in modern history?

Torcaso v. Watkins [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torcaso_v._Watkins]: Maryland tried to revoke the appointment of a notary public because he refused to declare a belief in the existence of god. The case was appealed all the way to the US Supreme Court because Maryland courts continually ruled in favor of the law.

It was of course unconstitutional but such laws were common until the late 19th century. Several states technically still have them even today. And some idiots actually attempted to invoke one a couple years ago. [http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/12/14/critics-say-atheist-nc-city-councilman-unworthy-seat/] But they only did it to make him look bad. Because he's an atheist.

No arrests or murders in the news in the last century or so. Atheists have definitely had it much better than ethnic minorities in modern times.

That's actually unsurprising. I thought I would at least be surprised i hadn't heard about it, and then I remembered what the educational system is today, and I wasn't.

 

[NinjaTigerXIII]

America was founded by Puritans, aka crazy religious nuts, DEAL WITH IT! But no on a serious note Its starting to get annoying anytime someone starts to cry foul, ANYTIME religion comes up in public schools, and to be blunt its been talked to death. We get it, there is a seperation between church and state, yadda yadda yadda, more facts about this typical subject, seriously doesn't it just make you tired even thinking about this subject? We get it, no we do, athiests you have the right to believe that there is no God, and thats cool, so in response to some prayer at graduation anyone who is atheist should be able to abstain from it, plain and simple.

 

[Mechanix]

America was founded by Puritans, aka crazy religious nuts, DEAL WITH IT! But no on a serious note I hate when people start crying foul anytime religion comes up in public schools, its been talked to death, no one cares, please oh please just stop!

I'm sure some people in the 60s were saying "I hate when people start talking about how bad black people have it, we all get it, shut up no one cares!".

No one would have to cry if the school just followed the law.

 

[aashell13]

The student's error is in assuming he has a constitutional right to freedom FROM religion. He does not, and neither does anyone else. The First Amendment to the United States Constitution states that congress is debarred from either establishing a national religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof, not that citizens have a right to disallow religious practices that they disagree with. Nor does it obligate government at any level to ensure that citizens are untroubled by the religious practices of others which they happen to disagree with.

That said, it's hard to say if the prayer in question is illegal or not. If the ceremony has a school functionary praying as a part of his official ceremonial duties, that could be construed as an establishment of a particular religion, and thus forbidden. If the prayer is a part of, say, the valedictory speech, then that would fall under freedom of speech, and the valedictorian would be within his rights.

 

[Mechanix]

You know, now that I think about it, what if this kid was Muslim? Or Hindi? or any religion not Christian? Then would it be okay for him to protest? A lot of people really have it in for atheists, but this is an issue that affects all non-christian beliefs.

 

[NinjaTigerXIII]

Snip

Way to quote me on something that I was mid-editing, this is a "my bad" kind of situation.

 

[Ultra_Caboose]

I see nothing wrong with praying in school. As long as the prayers aren't mandated, or religious practices aren't in the curriculum or affecting the learning process, I couldn't care less.

The one thing I learned growing up as an atheist is to realize that in my neck of the world I am a vast, VAST minority. Regardless of my beliefs and opinions, people are going to think and do what they want, and if that involves prayer who am I to object?

Prayer was commonplace in my high school, even more so now than back when I attended, considering that a church that was damaged by floods now congregates in the auditorium. As long as it doesn't affect the actual educational process, I see no real problem with it. If you believe, more power to you. If you don't, just twiddle your thumbs for a few seconds while everyone mumbles mumbo-jumbo for a bit and get on with your day.

 

[Duskflamer]

The student's error is in assuming he has a constitutional right to freedom FROM religion. He does not, and neither does anyone else. The First Amendment to the United States Constitution states that congress is debarred from either establishing a national religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof, not that citizens have a right to disallow religious practices that they disagree with. Nor does it obligate government at any level to ensure that citizens are untroubled by the religious practices of others which they happen to disagree with.

That said, it's hard to say if the prayer in question is illegal or not. If the ceremony has a school functionary praying as a part of his official ceremonial duties, that could be construed as an establishment of a particular religion, and thus forbidden. If the prayer is a part of, say, the valedictory speech, then that would fall under freedom of speech, and the valedictorian would be within his rights.

Assuming that this is a public school we're talking about, it counts as a government institution and is thus bound by constitutional laws, meaning it's illegal for it to "establish" a religion by forcing students to pray to that religion while demonizing all others, which seems to be what was going on over here.

A given person cannot go to a church and say "I don't like your religion so you have to stop!" however, people do have the right not to have religion pressed onto them (and given the captive audience nature of a school setting, it's hard to argue against the view that leading prayer in school forces religion on a student, especially in this case where he was ostracized just for standing up for his right to not have Christianity forced on him.)

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