Poll: Sequels or Spinoffs

[Vern5]

I was looking around some of the current game series (Fallout, Mass Effect, Dragon Age, Bioshock, TES, etc.) and I kept thinking: why do series need to be constructed entirely from procedural sequels?

Sequels are nice and even necessary when telling a story combined over multiple games but do they really give the developers room to explore their own intellectual property? Spinoffs need no continuation. They can stand on their own and exist within the same universe as other games within the series supported only by references to past games. So wouldn't Spinoffs be more lucrative and creative than just releasing continuations of the same timeline every year?

Let me give you a few examples for Spinoffs that, if designed well, could easily become some of the most lauded games of their time:

1) A Fallout spinoff that puts the player in America right at the time of the Apocalypse. You would get to enjoy the cinematic experience of viewing the end of the world first hand. Then, you would be challenged to survive the newly destroyed world, a world rife with violence, radiation, and general panic. Tie in a well thought-out storyline (trying to locate family, friends or a Vault to enter) and that would be a killer product.

2) This isn't so much an idea as a suggestion. Dragon Age 2 should have been renamed into a spinoff title, a divergent type of Dragon Age that catered to a different audience. The Dragon Age 2 title should have been saved for a sequel that kept in line with Origins. This would not only decrease fan rage, but open up new options for development within the Dragon age title.

3)A Mass Effect spinoff that puts you outside of the Council, Spectres and such. Instead, make the character a criminal or an independent space-farer just trying to get by in the galaxy. This would give the franchise more longevity in the shape of an open-world version of Mass Effect.

Those are just a few ideas off the top of my head. So, I already have my heart set on seeing more Spinoff titles instead of the constant stream of increasing numbered titles. I believe they are generally superior to sequels in many fashions. But, what do you think?

 

[random_bars]

I agree, yeah. Generally the way everyone's reaction to a good game is "SEQUEL PLZ" irritates me, because if a game really is that good then there's every chance that a sequel would never be able to stand up to the original. And I think the prevalence of sequels these days puts developers in a bad mindset - when you can think "oh well, we can fix this in a sequel" then you don't make as much of an effort to make your game as fully realized as possible.

In my opinion, sequels can be good, but it's generally if they either share some general themes of the first game but overall take it in a different direction, or if the first game had loads of potential but was unable to be finished, and really deserves a second chance. Your ideas for spinoffs do sound very interesting though, and a great way to expand a game's universe without just making the same game again.

One other thing I've noticed - does anyone else think that sequels these days are getting less and less imaginative with their naming? I remember a time when virtually every sequel would have the name of the first game with a tagline on it, as a sort of second title. These days, virtually every sequel is just the name of the first game with a number slapped on the end.

 

[Sp3ratus]

Well, the KotOR series and Star Wars games in general did something like this. Most of them, while set in the same universe are only really collected by that and the overarching story of Sith vs. Jedi, but not by having common characters.

Mafia has, arguably also done something like this. 1 and two have links that tie them together, sure, but they're different stories both set in the same universe, even if that universe is supposed to be this world.

As for why it is primarily sequels that are made and not spinoffs, I think it has to do with the fact that, over the span of a game, if the game is well made, you develop an emotional bond with said characters and essentially being that character, you want to continue the story of that character. I'd also think it's easier for developers, rather than introducing an entirely new character, it's easier to get the story rolling, when you've already established a character for the player.

As a final note, I haven't actually played DA2 yet, but from what I've read, it's a spinoff in everything but name. It's a new place, a new hero and a new story and the only thing that links it to the first is the universe?

 

[plugav]

I'd say the lines are blurry and both sequels and spinoffs have their place. But if I had to choose one, I'd choose spinoffs, which give designers more room for creativity.

Of course, both sequels and spinoffs can go terribly wrong, as demonstrated by Star Wars and its Expanded Universe.

As a final note, I haven't actually played DA2 yet, but from what I've read, it's a spinoff in everything but name. It's a new place, a new hero and a new story and the only thing that links it to the first is the universe?

I wish it was that simple. It's a spinoff right up to the ending... which reveals that it's not only supposed to be a proper sequel, but also part of (at least) a trilogy. A really cheap trick to make us want Dragon Age 3.

Fallout 3, on the other hand, is in no way a sequel to Fallout 2 (which, in turn, is only barely a sequel to Fallout 1, really).

 

[Sp3ratus]

I'd say the lines are blurry and both sequels and spinoffs have their place. But if I had to choose one, I'd choose spinoffs, which give designers more room for creativity.

Of course, both sequels and spinoffs can go terribly wrong, as demonstrated by Star Wars and its Expanded Universe.

As a final note, I haven't actually played DA2 yet, but from what I've read, it's a spinoff in everything but name. It's a new place, a new hero and a new story and the only thing that links it to the first is the universe?

I wish it was that simple. It's a spinoff right up to the ending... which reveals that it's not only supposed to be a proper sequel, but also part of (at least) a trilogy. A really cheap trick to make us want Dragon Age 3.

Fallout 3, on the other hand, is in no way a sequel to Fallout 2 (which, in turn, is only barely a sequel of Fallout 1, really).

Well, I'll be... it's hard to get a really clear picture of what DA2 really is, without having any of the story spoiled for yourself. Opinions being swung around from both extremes doesn't really help either. Having said that, I'll most likely pick it up, come Summer or Winter Sale on Steam, whenever the Ultimate edition comes out.

About the Star Wars comment, I have to both agree and disagree with you, while a lot of bad games have been spawned by the Star Wars universe, there have also been some really good ones, sequels and spinoffs. The ones that come to mind are KotOR 1 and 2(2 is with Restored Content Mod in mind), the Jedi Knight games, Rebublic Commando, Empire at War and I'll throw Galaxies in there as well, just because I had so much fun with it. And when I say Galaxies, of course I mean Pre-CU, nowadays Galaxies is dead to me.

To add something new to the thread, I'll throw in the Might and Magic series. That universe really is a shining example of what you're talking about. The universe has a whole bunch of games set in them, both the "Heroes of..." and the regular, roleplaying Might and Magic games. I haven't played all of them, but most of them aren't connected by the same character as merely has an overarching story about the universe the games are set in.

 

[plugav]

About the Star Wars comment, I have to both agree and disagree with you, while a lot of bad games have been spawned by the Star Wars universe, there have also been some really good ones, sequels and spinoffs.

That's true. I just think it all went too far.
I believe part of Mass Effect's success was that it was finally a space opera not set in the Star Wars universe, which made it automatically seem new, cool and fresh (despite the rather generic, though well told, story).

To add something new to the thread, I'll throw in the Might and Magic series. That universe really is a shining example of what you're talking about. The universe has a whole bunch of games set in them, both the "Heroes of..." and the regular, roleplaying Might and Magic games. I haven't played all of them, but most of them aren't connected by the same character as merely has an overarching story about the universe the games are set in.

They planned to do the same with the new Might & Magic universe (beginning with Heroes V), but so far I've only heard of Dark Messiah sharing that setting. I found it to be pretty awesome, by the way.

(And DA2 - I can't help but add my own opinion - is a decent game that could have been a great game if given more time. A bit like KotOR2, but not as broken.)

 

[Sp3ratus]

That's true. I just think it all went too far.
I believe part of Mass Effect's success was that it was finally a space opera not set in the Star Wars universe, which made it automatically seem new, cool and fresh (despite the rather generic, though well told, story).

That might very well be true, there haven't really been a lot of big budget games and even fewer, if any RPGs set in an area like that. I'm a Star Wars geek though, so I'm really not as sick of Star Wars as you sound like you are Still not a fan of the prequel trilogy, for I really don't care about them or the recent products that are related to them.

They planned to do the same with the new Might & Magic universe (beginning with Heroes V), but so far I've only heard of Dark Messiah sharing that setting. I found it to be pretty awesome, by the way.

(And DA2 - I can't help but add my own opinion - is a decent game that could have been a great game if given more time. A bit like KotOR2, but not as broken.)

I know I've already mentioned it earlier, but the Restored Content mod for KotOR 2 really adds a lot to the experience and makes the game the fantastic game it was supposed to be. From what I've heard, DA2 is different in that regard, KotOR2 was rushed out the door because of time constraint, DA2 was published because EA wanted to capitalise on the success of DA: O. I'm not sure whether or not there was a lot of cut content from DA2, as was the case for KotOR2, I haven't seen mention of that anywhere, anyway.

Oh, and sounds exciting about the Might and Magic, I hope that goes somewhere. It's been quite a while since the last Might and Magic RPG, so I wouldn't mind a new one, though I hope it'll be in the style of the old games, instead of an update, that won't work.

I have another suggestion for the thread, though. The Forgotten Realms universe. It really is a big universe with a lot of different products taking place in it, books, pen & paper RPGs and computer games. There have been a lot of both connected and unconnected(is that a word?) games. The Baldur's Gate series, NWN series, Icewind Dale series, Descent to Undermountain etc. Granted, the series have sequel, but the series themselves aren't connected to the other games in the universe, other than that they share the universe.

 

[TheKruzdawg]

I've always thought it would be cool to have a Mass Effect game set during the First Contact War or maybe as far back as the Rachni Wars. Or just go completely out of those entirely and make up some new conflict, maybe even let us play as a different species, which I think would be a lot of fun.

 

[plugav]

I'm a Star Wars geek though, so I'm really not as sick of Star Wars as you sound like you are Still not a fan of the prequel trilogy, for I really don't care about them or the recent products that are related to them.

I have mixed feelings about Star Wars. I liked the original trilogy and both KotORs, but if you pump too much content into one setting, it becomes ridiculous and self-contradictory. If Jedi can fly, juggle lightsabers and use the Force to pull down Star Destroyers, why don't they ever do that when it's needed (that is, in earlier films and games)?

I know I've already mentioned it earlier, but the Restored Content mod for KotOR 2 really adds a lot to the experience and makes the game the fantastic game it was supposed to be. From what I've heard, DA2 is different in that regard, KotOR2 was rushed out the door because of time constraint, DA2 was published because EA wanted to capitalise on the success of DA: O. I'm not sure whether or not there was a lot of cut content from DA2, as was the case for KotOR2, I haven't seen mention of that anywhere, anyway.

I'll have to look up that mod someday.
I don't know about DA2 having any content cut either, but what I meant was that the game was evidently a premature release. A lot of stuff in DA2 is really good, but that's balanced out by a lot of lazy shortcuts and bad decisions. Give it another six months in development and perhaps it would feel like a complete new game.

I have another suggestion for the thread, though. The Forgotten Realms universe.

A good example of how sequels and spinoffs can peacefully coexist.
I wish other pen&paper games and settings got as much attention from videogame designers...

 

[Gladiateher]

I really love spin offs they can use the best parts of a game and change the worst parts.