I'm so sick of crap like this, seriously, everytime something is geared towards the male demographic(which happens to be a majority in videogames) you get outcrys of how sexist it is to have men covered and women wearing less, blah blah blah. How often do us guys crying sexism over crap? Spike tv is mostly gear towards men so it would make sense to cater towards the demographic, sex sells, I know let's go too the beach and call it sexist because I'm allowed to run around with my shirt off but women can't. See how childish and stupid that is? If i pointed out all the legal loopholes that are sexist against men then I'd be here all day but who the hell cares. Point is whining about stuff geared towards a majority demographic is getting to become stupid already.
And I think if we're going to call for sexism in games, how exactly are women the only victims?
Whenever some white knight claims sexist, I just respond with "You've seen the men in games, right? Besides, the female gamers I know appreciate being able to play as attractive characters."
Male here, and I despise the entire thing. Rightly enough some games might need to apply a dose of sexism for historical authenticity's sake, but the big-breasted-scantly-clad "warriors" is just nonsensical and a discredit to the medium as a whole. Sure let them BE big-breasted if that's how you want it, but don't make them jump around like rabbits without knocking themselves unconcious if you do.
I've never come across sexism in any game that I've played. I've come across things in games that overly sensitive people might misconstrue as sexism, but other than that, no real sexism.
Catwoman in Arkham City. ANNOYED THE FUCK OUT OF ME. Yeah we get it. "Rawr kitty meow rawr." All I could think is Catwoman is trying way too hard. Not sure if it's a sexism issue, or just terrible characterization OR that's just how the character is. Never got too much into the (lore?) of Batman and such.
Sort of encapsulates the problem, in my mind. Lots of male characters have no personality beyond (ballnormous), lots of female characters have no personality beyond (hot), and while other characters gets to be (swashbucklerous) or (suavemaculant), those characters are generally male.
Not a dig at borderlands, btw - really like that game, gonna play the shit out of it with my sister when the family comes home for Christmas. That game gets a pass for me because you don't really need things like "story" and "deep characterization" if you have enough guns. The trailer just illustrates the issue really well.
I'm so sick of crap like this, seriously, everytime something is geared towards the male demographic(which happens to be a majority in videogames) you get outcrys of how sexist it is to have men covered and women wearing less, blah blah blah. How often do us guys crying sexism over crap? Spike tv is mostly gear towards men so it would make sense to cater towards the demographic, sex sells, I know let's go too the beach and call it sexist because I'm allowed to run around with my shirt off but women can't. See how childish and stupid that is? If i pointed out all the legal loopholes that are sexist against men then I'd be here all day but who the hell cares. Point is whining about stuff geared towards a majority demographic is getting to become stupid already.
Some of us actually make the games you play, and invest our opinions in the creative direction and decisions that influence our careers and the products we develop. I want to hear what people in the gaming community think. I fail to see what is wrong with discussing a subject that you see a problem with or voicing your opinion. On a discussion forum.
Your examples don't even make sense. We're talking about video games. Developers should want to be expanding their demographic, not minimizing it. And if a game truly needs to rely on sex appeal to sell, it's most likely a shitty game. No wonder non-gamers seem to think we're all a bunch of maladjusted, juvenile brats.
Sexism in games is a problem. There's nothing wrong with having a female character who is sexy and runs around in little clothing if it fits her personality and isn't too ridiculous for whatever she's doing, but if the outfit doesn't fit at all and every female character is pretty much running around in her underwear then it's not ok. Now if every character, regardless of gender, was running around scantily clad then it also would be fine, but since male characters are often decked out in armor or at least have pants on that's not the case. I will say that the portrayal of women in games has made me love games that have strong female characters way more than I otherwise would.
Hm, I get annoyed about female characters that are just there for tits and fanservice, or if they're all ridiculously girly, but being a tomboyish woman m'self, ya can kinda guess why.
Then again, sometimes I'm sexist towards women myself. I've gotta stop insulting groups of people that I belong to. (Namely women and British people.)
Male here. I don't consider video games "sexist" in the slightest unless those games actively imply that women can't do certain things that men can. But often some people seem to think that "sexy" and "sexist" are the same. They're not. There's nothing wrong with sexiness. There's nothing wrong with showing a little skin. And thus, there's nothing wrong with making games where characters show a little skin. Or a lot. I don't get why anybody thinks there's something wrong with it. Promiscuity is a right, and if developers want to design promiscuous characters who are proud of their figures and have a very positive body image, they should be able to do that. To say that they can't do that and to imply that they are sexist for doing it is a form of discrimination. The only thing wrong here is getting offended by it.
The only thing sexist about it is that there aren't more games with buff dudes for ladies to check out. I wouldn't beat sexism by ending sexy games. I would just beat it by making MORE sexy games that pander just as much to women as they do to men. Hell, let's have a "Dead or Alive Xtreme Beach Hunks Edition". Or a "Skullguys". Y'know, in Soul Calibur 4 you can design some pretty showy outfits for the men too.
I'm female and I'd rather play as a sexy female than a fully covered up one, though if I had a choice I'd prefer one somewhere in between.
With regards to Skullgirls? I don't find it sexist, at least I don't find skinny girls with big...assets...and not much clothing any more sexist than huge beefy men in say Modern Warfare etc.
With regards to sexism in general? As long as the character is well developed and interesting I couldn't care less what she looks like or what she's wearing.
As a male gamer, I think it's ridiculous to say that sexism isn't a problem in games sometimes. I think the sexist card may be pulled out a few too many times, but it's really really hard to say that it doesn't exist or isn't a problem when I can scroll over to several RPGs on my desktop, and compare a massively bulky male warrior who I'm not even sure is actually located inside the layers of high-tier plate, and the willowy female warrior who's best armor is basically an armored thong and sports bra. Or, alternately, costumes for the normally sensibly-armored female characters that go right down the fanservice road, while the unlockable/buyable male costumes are just different variations on the textures and models of standard armor (I'm looking at YOU Dungeons and Dragons Online!)
Video games in general doesn't by any chance cover tournaments? Cause I'm pretty pissed at the BM that there is girls only tournaments and if the same thing was being done with guys, that tournament would hear an outrage from everyone for not letting females participate...
I'm male, and I really don't pay attention to it. Hopefully, developers try to figure out what people would be wearing, and base the models around that. It doesn't always work that way in practice, such as the totally impractical outfits that adorn most women in fighting games, but I like to think that at least some thought to practicality goes into the design process.
Thing is... if you look at a game like Golden Axe as an example that comes to mind, people might mention how impractical and revealing the only woman's armour is, while the fact that the tall burly warrior is wearing even less in the form of skintight blue speedos would probably go comparatively unnoticed.
The intent and how the audience are meant to engage with it are everything, it's not just about counting the square inches of skin shown. The problem is that the woman is wearing that for no reason other than to appeal to men. Objectification reduces the character and marginalises the female audience.
Whatthe said:
xXxJessicaxXx said:
This is what women have to put up with everyday in games, movies and comics. Female characters are put on display for men while male characters have relevant character based poses. It's pretty indicative of the attitude towards female characters.
(particularly love Iron Man in the usual Samus pose...)
Is there a reason that this is considered sexist? I know that you say that this indicates the attitude toward female characters but that does not mean it has the quality of sexism. Female characters are posed in a way that is most appealing to the demographic but does that indicate inferiority?
By the way I only ask this to see if you have a good reason for this belief not because of my belief that this is or is not sexist. I just want to know why people genuinely think this is wrong.
Yes, it indicates inferiority. Leering over a character actively gets in the way of identifying with them, and the male characters' poses are meant to indicate strength, skill and power, while the female character is meant to possess all of these qualities too but all she's actually exhibiting is a fine ass.
Which isn't to say that sex appeal is 100% bad 100% of the time, but it needs to be balanced out - I'm not too offended by that Avengers poster for example, because I know the character is probably going to get fairer treatment in the actual movie.
(also, that picture is hilarious and incisive as hell and I love whoever made it forever)
Belated said:
Male here. I don't consider video games "sexist" in the slightest unless those games actively imply that women can't do certain things that men can. But often some people seem to think that "sexy" and "sexist" are the same. They're not. There's nothing wrong with sexiness. There's nothing wrong with showing a little skin. And thus, there's nothing wrong with making games where characters show a little skin. Or a lot. I don't get why anybody thinks there's something wrong with it. Promiscuity is a right, and if developers want to design promiscuous characters who are proud of their figures and have a very positive body image, they should be able to do that.
That's the problem - 90% of the time, women in games aren't sexualised because of anything to do with their character, it's to appeal to the male audience. They're not dressed like that because they're confident, sexual characters - they're dressed like that because regardless of their actual personalities they're there for the men to look at. The textbook example is the stone cold warrior maiden who dresses like a stripper - there's no reason in the woman's actual character for that, it's purely to titillate and it contradicts or trivialises the character's actual personality.
This is why while I still have problems with Isabella from Dragon Age 2 and Bayonetta, I consider them a step up from many female characters in gaming - their skimpy outfits and general sexualisation at least fits the characters, and you can actually imagine the developers sitting down and conceptualising a saucy pirate lady as a character before making the decision to give her massive amounts of cleavage.
Ofcourse they're sexist. And if they aren't, someone will make a mod for it.
I wouldn't mind some more games with believable female protagonists, who are there for other than just fanservice, though.
Male here. I feel I am missing out on possible experience by the distinct lack of sexism towards men. I demand to be offended!
Not only is the objectification of just women in video games ridiculous, it's also not historically accurate, I mean, here's a picture of Henry VIII's Armour, used during one or other of our conflicts with France. (I won't lie, we've had a lot of them, get's kinda hard to keep track of which is which...)
Look at that freakin' codpiece! You don't see that your fantasy RPGs, but boobplate and chainmail bikinis are bloody everywhere!
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