Poll: Should British Police be armed?

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claymoreguy18

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Jan 3, 2011
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Yes. Because if its a guy with a gun vs. a guy without a gun most of the time the guy with the gun will win. So if a robber has a gun and the policeman (or woman) does not then chances are the officer will lose.
It sucks but it often doesn't matter who is actually right and who is actually wrong when you have the gun then you are always right. period.
Then again I'm an American so maybe I'm a little biased.
 

manaman

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bahumat42 said:
manaman said:
Da Orky Man said:
Tasers, possibly. Proper guns, no. We have substantially less violent crime than the US, and I'd like to keep it like that.
Eh, the UK has more violent crime then South Africa. We are talking orders of magnitude bigger then the US. Enough so that different crime reporting statistics, and justice systems can't make up the entirety of the difference. About the only statistics the US can be seen as truly ahead on are gun crime (as a subset of total crime) and homicides. Even then the vast majority of those come from specific small socioeconomic groups around the country. In other words, it's a tiny percentage of the population committing the vast majority of those crimes, and in only specific areas. You are far safer walking down the streets in most US cities then are are in most UK cities.
thats got to do with urban sprawl and population density more than anything else.
The US and the UK have pretty close to the same (US 82% UK 80%) population living in urban areas. Actual city density is closer still with the UK in a slight lead. The only real difference is that the cities and urban areas are simply closer together in the UK.
 

alrekr

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Zarkov said:
I think there should be special layer of the police that are allowed to have guns, but the every day police officer should not.

T
There already is; its called the armed response unit. Here in the UK if some nutter has a gun they call these chaps in. Also police men at likely terroist targets (government buildings, airports etc..) also tend to carry guns.
 

alrekr

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Forlong said:
a criminal thinks he'll get shot, he'll avoid the crime that could get him shot.
Most people who commit crimes think they will get away with it and do not think about what the police might do or what the law courts will do.
If police carried guns more often it would encourage criminals to pack heat and then we'd have an arms race.

The police here do good job without guns. If a situation happens in which guns are needed; armed response units are called in.
 

omega 616

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May 1, 2009
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No 'cos I bet it would increase deaths from things like a man pulling his wallet out or something, which I have heard of before.

I think it would increase deaths from over zealous/cavalier cops with itchy trigger fingers.

Can I remind people of the cause of our recent riots? A cop shooting a person.

If police need guns they can call in a specialist team.

DragonLord Seth said:
I find it disturbing that there's so many pacifist hippies who don't think anyone should be armed. Like that massacre a while back, the reason it took so long was because the cops had to go get permission to go to the armory and gear up.
Second Amendment, fuck yeah!
I think it's disturbing the amount of aggressive people who need a safety blanket to feel safe while walking around. What next your all going to be donning full riot gear, why not just go the "surrogate" film route and build robots to live for you.

Could the massacre your talking about have happened if the ability to get guns was made harder? In the end people are going to kill if they want to dishing out guns like free money isn't the way to make people safer.
 

bootz

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Feb 28, 2011
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Guns for cops are a bad idea.
In the states where I live they pull it out and point it at you just for speeding or running a stop sign. They are very over used for no purpose.
 

manaman

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bahumat42 said:
manaman said:
bahumat42 said:
manaman said:
Da Orky Man said:
Tasers, possibly. Proper guns, no. We have substantially less violent crime than the US, and I'd like to keep it like that.
Eh, the UK has more violent crime then South Africa. We are talking orders of magnitude bigger then the US. Enough so that different crime reporting statistics, and justice systems can't make up the entirety of the difference. About the only statistics the US can be seen as truly ahead on are gun crime (as a subset of total crime) and homicides. Even then the vast majority of those come from specific small socioeconomic groups around the country. In other words, it's a tiny percentage of the population committing the vast majority of those crimes, and in only specific areas. You are far safer walking down the streets in most US cities then are are in most UK cities.
thats got to do with urban sprawl and population density more than anything else.
The US and the UK have pretty close to the same (US 82% UK 80%) population living in urban areas. Actual city density is closer still with the UK in a slight lead. The only real difference is that the cities and urban areas are simply closer together in the UK.
I was reffering more to the face that in suburbia in the uk houses are right next to each other, so the unsocial types have an easier time of getting a hold of each other (yes sadly even our middle class produces thuggish offspring) from the little time i spent in small town america people were far more spread out and such grouping together (at least from my perspective) would seem to be less common.

And yes our population densities may be close BUT this only down to the hugely high density the us have in inner city areas, whereas we just have quite high all over.
The funny thing is, the inner city density is actually higher in the UK then the US. A higher percentage of your population actually lives in your cities then the US. While the US has a higher urban population (which includes suburbia, smaller towns linked to a larger area). Seattle is a great example of this. The entire I5 corridor (which is the area around interstate 5) between Tacoma and Seattle is populated. 3.4 million people live in the Seattle-Tacoma metro area, while only 600k live in Seattle and only 200k live in Tacoma, with other scattered towns between 30k and 80k. Most live in smaller towns that blur together into one large metropolitan area.

I will grant you that overall across the entire UK the population density per square kilometer is far higher then in the US, again this has to do with the incredible distances between metro areas in the US.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c1/USA-Urban-Areas.svg This link will take you to a map that will show you exactly how spread out the densely populated areas are in the US. Open with caution it's quite substantial.

I highly doubt that proximity of houses does anything to increase crime, when it actually tends to have the opposite effect. Over here houses are hit when it's rare to find a burglary in an apartment complex or town home complex, even in bad areas. There are just to many people around.
 

AngloDoom

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twistedmic said:
Did your friend explain that he was highly asthmatic and he needed his medication on hand to prevent serious health problems, or did he just simply refuse to hand over the medication? If he did explain the situation and the cop was still yelling at him and threatening arrest, then the cop was a prick. If he didn't bother explaining, then the cop had reasonable doubt.
Also, did you friend have proof that the medication was his (i.e. his name printed on the labels and photo i.d., prescription cards etc?)?
Being quite a reasonable and rather lovely guy, he did indeed explain. I believe he had a prescription for the inhaler but didn't have a prescription for the pills. I'm unaware of whether the pills had his name on them, and I believe he was too young at the time to hold valid ID so he may not have been able to prove those were his anyway. When he produced the pills and said they were for his asthma, the officer laughed and said "You don't get pills for asthma."

Fair enough, I wasn't aware of it until I met the guy, but this is not the first time he's been hassled by police in his area. It's a terrible area for violent crime and everyone holds themselves like they're ready for a fight, and as a result the police take a very much more aggressive approach. I'm not saying that they are bad people for it, but nervous police-officers who are forced to 'walk the walk' when they're hardly capable of 'talking the talk' is bad enough - adding a weapon that blasts shrapnel out of the end seems highly undesirable.
 

Jimmy T. Malice

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Dec 28, 2010
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Nah, that'd give them an advantage against the criminals. Much better to give them silly hats and truncheons.
 

nakininja

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Sep 4, 2011
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I guess that it depends on where you compare it too.
For example I live in Northern Ireland where the police are armed with live weapons so perhaps you could do some comparisons there.
After all we have much more experience with both REAL rioting (not a little riot and then a lot of looting) and also a culture where the police are real targets for violence from the public and specific terrorist groups.
This has been the case for years and could maybe help you.
:)
 

MrJKapowey

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Zantos said:
MASTACHIEFPWN said:
Give them tazers. If things get to out of hand call in the SAS... or SBS because I never here of them doing anything.
Or send in the Royal Marines Commandos, British ninjas!


Disclaimer: I know that the best royal marines commandos go into selection for the SBS, I just wanted an excuse to post the ninja video.
Why would we even need to bother those guys? The RIFLES could probably do a good job. I don't see what's wrong with deploying a British Army unit during the riots. I even came up with a plan for how to (in a highly immature and probably scary (for the rioters, funny for bystanders) way) shut down a massive group of people rioting.

Get four sections of regular soldiers and arm them with L85s.

Give them 5 magazines each, one in the rifle, two in the ammo pouches (left side) and one in the rear-most 'nade pouch (right side).

Fill each of the magazines (except the 'nade one) with blank rounds to the top. Fill the 'nade one with 10 live rounds.

Box the rioters in with two sections deploying from Saxons and other armoured (but wheeled vehicles) on each end of their street. Riot police oversee the operation and also block off any side streets.

The soldiers advance armed with blanks, wearing riot armour under the supervision of Coy. SgtMajs.

Basically they order the rioters to cease the disturbance and lie down, awaiting arrest. As they box the rioters in further, groups of police officers follow behind.

When any rioters attempt to break out or attack the soldiers they pass it over the radio as if they were getting ready for a fight in Afghanistan 'Ready' (cock the rifle).

The unmistakable sound should subdue them a bit, if not then the blanks-overhead as the next warning should stop them.

The police then dash through and subdue any idiots who are still trying to resist. The Live rounds are only for if a shooter appears or a soldier is in mortal danger.

That should scare them shitless...
 

Iron Mal

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Use_Imagination_here said:
Why does everyone think that the absolute only way for police to use a gun is killing someone?
That could have something to do with the fact that killing stuff is the only function and purpose for which firearms are designed (and to their credit, they do that really, really well).

Overall I disagree with arming the police for the same reason I'm glad that guns are largely restricted over here (that being that it's pretty damn hard to shoot someone if you can't get your hands on a gun).

In my opinion you should have suspicion of and be cautious of anyone who is carrying a weapon of any variety, whether they're a cop or criminal.

Both can potentially be dangerous individuals and while being punched in the face hurts, odds are on it won't kill you (unlike wounds from firearms and knives which tend to be fatal most of the time).
 

JamesStone

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Jun 9, 2010
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No. Giving someone firearms isn´t the way to bring peace. It increases civilian unrest, and remember kids, guns fire projectiles really really fast, and they do not always hit the target, so there are numerous ways things could go wrong. Now it a baton, you would need have true bad luck to things to go wrong the way guns can.
 

Treblaine

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Jul 25, 2008
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mortalsatsuma said:
I know this question has probably been asked many times before but I need some help with an essay I am handing in tomorrow with the title being the one above. I'm looking for peoples opinions on the subject, especially Americans who already have armed police "Protecting and serving" them and whether they think it is a good or a bad thing to have armed police and whether You think it has any effect on the levels of crime in your country.
Police of any sort cannot reduce crime rate by changing something as mundane as what they are armed with (guns or pepper spray).

Guns simultaneously make things harder and easier for coppers.

In deal with unarmed suspects they have to use a lot more caution so they don't shoot someone without warrant, or allow their gun to be stolen or used against them.

On the other hand, the use of weapons is so common is hobbles police response, over and over again the experienced beat police are forced to stand-down when guns, imitation guns or other dangerous weapons (machetes, chainsaws, etc) are threatened.

It's no longer the situation that police can depend on most violent/gang disturbances will not have weapons involved.

Two cops vs 5 thugs with knives, a pistol is the only defence.

Frankly, I'd much rather arm the cops who are PART OF the community than some "elite" outside force. Canteen Culture is a big problem with British policing - by that I mean how our police force are so separate from the communities they police only ever socially interacting with other police in canteens (which is the only designated place junior officers are allowed to eat.

I find it an infuriating contradiction that high ranking Police Officers are permitted to have exquisitely expensive lunches and hotel visits with rich media moguls (who depend on police "leaks" to fuel their tabloid newspapers) yet a beat copper isn't allowed to go into Burger King for their lunch break while in uniform.

That's the problem, THAT is why we cannot have armed police nor have our police have many powers at all because they are so detached that they cannot be trusted to use such powers responsibly.

There is this idea that there will be less unjustified killings if only highly trained officers are armed but that has not been demonstrated. If you want people to be SAFE you need EMOTIONAL incentive! My dad told me of a French explosives company that had a terrible safety record, the solution: move the families of the employees on sight so they would be in shrapnel range of any explosion.

Accident rates fell through the floor, safety shot up with no other encouragement.

You send an elite firearms unit to confront a gunman who may just be a kid with a black-spray-painted water-pistol: the LOCAL copper with less experience but 10x more consideration is going to be way less "trigger happy".

In conclusion:
Armed Policing needs to be a grass-roots exercise, starting with local and integrated policing.
-Cops always need to have guns within quick and easy deployment. We cannot have a repeat of Derrick Bird's shooting spree where his path of destruction actually went past a police station where not a single policeman could respond with a gun. They tried to follow him but were forced to turn and flee.

Every copper should have firearms training and have one in their car in a bio-metrically locked gunsafe.

(I also had the idea that police helicopters should consider using it as a platform for Sharp-shooters. A bird's eye view with a high power rifle would be supremely effective against spree-killers or a mumbai-style terrorists attack.)
 
Dec 27, 2010
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Zarkov said:
I think there should be special layer of the police that are allowed to have guns, but the every day police officer should not.

There needs to be some enforcement, but trusting every police officer with something that can take a life easily is just asking for trouble.
I'd agree with that. The problem we have here in Ireland is that the Gardaí don't really hold much authority because;
A) Most of them are lazy bast*rds and
B) If anything serious actually happens, they have to call the army, whose nearest barracks (where I live) are quite a while away.

An armed force in each station seems like the best solution. But anyway, I voted yes. The crime-rate in some areas of London's too high.
 

Treblaine

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Jul 25, 2008
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DarkRyter said:
The only arm they need

IS JUSTICE.
How did "Justice" stop Derrick Bird on his shooting spree when he passed a police station? And there was not a single armed officer in the station for the whole town? He had incredibly crude weapons yet was able to kill so many people because there was no COMMUNITY armed policing!

Where was the justice that he didn't stop killing till he was down to his last round that he used to take his own life, denying the justice of him being put on trail?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lady_Justice

Lady Justice is blind: with a Scales in one hand, and A SWORD IN THE OTHER!

To be armed with justice, IS to be armed!
 

the.gill123

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Jun 12, 2011
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They are armed, with a stick, you know, you wouldn't want to face a machine gun without a stick.

Seriously though, there might be a need for it in some inner city areas, but in the majority of the country it just isn't a necessity.