Poll: Should Princess Zelda Still Need Saving?

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Rayce Archer

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So Zelda has the triforce of wisdom. Link has courage, and Ganon has power.

Why does wisdom have to be good all the time?

If we look at history, many evil or at least powermongering leaders were brilliant. Napoleon, Genghis Khan, Mark Anthony- nobody would call those guys dumb, right?

So here's my pitch for the next Zelda continuity.

Hyrule is an autocratic police state ruled down to the tiniest detail by Zelda, its iron-fisted queen. Using the triforce of Wisdom affords her a near-clairvoyant knowledge of everything happening in her empire, allowing her to placate her subjects' every need- and put down any who rise up in opposition to her. And of all her underlings, the most feared is Link. An orphan, raised from childhood as the royal family's "legendary hero," he is imbued with the Triforce of courage, making him totally fearless in his execution of Zelda's orders. Even worse, his endless plundering of tombs and temples, once sacred to the people, has armed him with centuries of magical relics, making his self-perceived invincibility all too real.

In a peaceful temple town high on Death Mountain, young Ganon is an apprentice to the local monk, in training to become the next temple guardian. One day, his simple life is shattered when Zelda's army arrives to impose her rule. Although the former temple guardian puts up a strong fight with his ancient magic, he is effortlessly dispatched by Link using the Sword of Mastery, a horrible relic that saps the will to fight from its weilder's enemies. Ganon is left trapped in his own ruined temple as his town is razed.

In his last terrified moments, a third triforce appears and taunts Ganon with the promise of power. Desperate for revenge, Ganon accepts the triforce, gaining superhuman strength and speed, and sets out to free Hyrule from Zelda and her mad knight. But as his power grows, the triforce also changes ganon, giving him an increasingly bestial form and luring him with visions of an empire of his own. Will he use his power to become the hero of Hyrule, or will he be driven to madness just like Link and Zelda?

Core mechanics would consist of stealth theft missions (looting back relics and returning them to Hyrule's temples), Metroid-style unlockable exploration based on gear, and developing increasing power based on the adulation of the masses. Making honorable choices such as sparing an enemy soldier at your mercy or giving up heart containers and other items offered to you by the impoverished citizens of Hyrule would allow Ganon to maintain his human (elven?) form, gaining improved speed, deceptive magical spells, and combat finesse; while taking what you want and doing as you please would cause you to slowly transform into the more recognizable pig demon form, gaining increased attack power and more destructive magic.
 

Something Amyss

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Link's Awakening is still one of my favourite Zelda games, and there's no Zelda in it. Just a lookalike who's sort of there to remind Link of Zelda, but still no Zelda, no major rescue plot point. It'd be nice to see Zelda in a different role, but I'll be honest: I'm not the target audience. I haven't enjoyed a Zelda since they went 3D, and I doubt I'd start just because Zelda was a hero. Like, it'd be nice, but I don't care that much.

Speaking of Zelda as a hero...

Elfgore said:
Instead of having Link being the savior constantly and Zelda the damsel, make them a fighting duo.
Wonder Twin powers activate!

Let our Triforces combine!
 

Windcaler

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Speaking from a gameplay aspect in the earlist games Zelda was a monarch without a lot of skills beyond ruling hyrule (that assumes she had military training in how to lead and organize soldiers for wide spread combat but not necessarily personal combat training and/or experience). However there was a Zelda cartoon that portrayed her as a competant, intelligent, and powerful character along side of Link and this is how most of us started to see her despite the games not painting her that way. I personally loved the idea of a powerful Zelda that just wasnt powerful enough to stand against Ganon, a physical incarnation of evil. It really said something about the villain you were against. So since probably Zelda 2: Links adventure theres always been this expectation that she be a powerful character in her own right which also supports how Ganon and his forces are so much more powerful and how Link is swimming against the current to stop him. The theme at the time was overcoming adversity

Up until Orcarina of time there was a clear and potent narrative about power, defense of a kingdom, and the threat of greater dangers beyond hyrule. Actually Links awakening was originally written as a direct answer to that because it set link leaving hyrule to train so he could stand against bigger then Ganon. That blew my mind at the time because I was thinking what could possibly be more powerful then a hyper intelligent god like wizard?

Warning: Im about to go on a bit of a rant here

Then we got orcarina of time which really just messed up the entire franchise and it hasnt recovered yet. To be honest I dont think it can recover at this point. I havnt played the Zelda games after that. Im just so disappointed in what could have been because they threw out the narrative they had for a reboot. Then they got into the practice of throwing out the entire narrative altogether to make different adventures with the same characters but never interconnected. It wasnt till a fan came up with the "different timeline" theory that it started to look like there was some sense to it all. Nintendo shot that down at some point saying there wasnt a joint narrative and then a few years ago they backpedeled to get their "official" timeline out which gamers and some fans bought hook line and sinker. Obviously Im not one of those fans, I wanted the original narrative to continue but its never going to happen now. Nintendo's stuck on this timeline and reincarnation idea which really saddens me because I felt there was a lot they could still do with the franchise. Ultimately Im very sad that this narrative was not only abandoned but retconned and IMO it really shows the developers had a lack of confidence in what they were creating. Its made me stop being a fan of the franchise and instead avoid it.

Ok rant over

However what I said before about Zelda being powerful in her own right and thus speaking silently to the greater power of Ganon and his forces is still there. I dont think she needs to be that damsel in distress but I do think its fair to say that she may need help to face greater dangers. There may be a message there that people can learn from
 

Windcaler

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Rayce Archer said:
So Zelda has the triforce of wisdom. Link has courage, and Ganon has power.

Why does wisdom have to be good all the time?
Youre confusing Intelligence with wisdom. Intelligence has no conotation to descern if something is right or just. Wisdom does (in fact its one of the definitions of wisdom). Intelligence does not equate to wisdom but being wise tends to assume you are also intelligent
 

Fappy

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Windcaler said:
Rayce Archer said:
So Zelda has the triforce of wisdom. Link has courage, and Ganon has power.

Why does wisdom have to be good all the time?
Youre confusing Intelligence with wisdom. Intelligence has no conotation to descern if something is right or just. Wisdom does (in fact its one of the definitions of wisdom). Intelligence does not equate to wisdom but being wise tends to assume you are also intelligent
It's also a reoccurring theme in the Zelda franchise that one must wield both courage and wisdom to overcome absolute power. While this isn't a concept that needs to be consistent across every title in the franchise, it does make swapping character roles trickier. I can't really see avatars of Courage or Wisdom being corruptible figures considering how overwhelmingly positive those ideals are.
 

Zontar

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I can't really say I care one way or the other, only that I'd want any game in question to be good.

Which is probably the reason we won't see it happen any time soon since the staff who make these games feel the same way, and always tend to put gameplay over story. It's why Nintendo games tend to be light on story, and given some of their attempts to add real depth to some characters it's probably for the better if it stays that way (I still hear the cries of Metroid fans when the night is quiet).
 

TheGamerElite33

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Nintendo only know to rehash same story. mario save princess peach, link save princess zelda.
all childish princess storys.
 

Protocol95

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Diesel- said:
Nintendo only know to rehash same story. mario save princess peach, link save princess zelda.
all childish princess storys.
I'll bite. Kirby Triple Deluxe.

OT: Tropes are tools. If a good story requires the princessbe captured, fine. If it rquries the hero be captured, fine. The series has played with this and outright averted it at points. So I guess I 'Don't give a shit!'
 

MerlinCross

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The Zelda series can really stand to be shaken up a bit. Give us more spin off games or something where the status quo isn't well status quo. Heck, Yahtzee's review of Hyrule Warriors is staying at me in the most commented box(At time of writing). Holding pattern indeed. Hyrule Warriors might be a cash grab but it's a different cash grab than just making another Zelda game.

Story wise as for why she gets kidnapped is well....she's a princess. She's well known, usually located in a few spots and has one of the elements that can bring about Ganon's downfall. Heck, swap 'Prince Link' into that and I can see why he'd be kidnapped first. Because of "I know where they are", at least that's how it always was to me especially playing these games as a kid.

Flipside is why doesn't Ganon go destroy the Master Sword, Sword of Evil's Bane first instead? Well if we want to bring that argument up, I'm going to the fall back answer as to why Zelda keeps getting kidnapped. It's pretty simple.

Lazy, Lazy writing. Or just sticking to a formula that could really stand some shaking up.
 

Scarim Coral

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First Lastname said:
Scarim Coral said:
Well I think they should more of her offensive ability since I do find it abit hard to see her as an fighter in SSBB (well ok the same would apply to Peach). I mean she is capable of fighting like she assist Link against Ganon with her bow in the final battle. Maybe in the next LoZ game maybe they can show her kicking some minions arses before she get capture.
My memory may be a tad sketchy, but didn't they also do that in Twilight Princess? I swear I remember her and some of her guards trying to fight Zant when he first bursted into the Throne Room or something.
Yeah that did happened in Twilight Princess and while she was holding a sword, she then surrender when two of her guards got their arse beat by Zant minions.
 

Scars Unseen

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I voted "don't give a shit," but mostly because I believe the writer should determine the story, not the audience. In general, I'd like to see more empowered female protagonists in games, not for any reasons relating to social equality, but for the simple sake of variety. But that's a general preference in regards to the medium as a whole, not any one given game.

In LoZ, the main problem I see is that Zelda's role as the holder of the Triforce of Wisdom is usually downplayed in comparison to Link and Ganon's roles. If I were to make any suggestion, it would be to make Zelda more of a strategist or planner. This, to me, would feel more appropriate than to turn her into an action girl Like Lara Croft or Bayonetta.
 

Piorn

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Asking for Main character characterizations in a Nintendo game is like asking to characterize the bat, ball and glove in Baseball. They're devices, not people.
Mario doesn't have a character, neither does Peach, Bowser, Link, Zelda or Ganondorf.
They are not the content, they are the 3 act structure, they are the book, they are the paper the story is written on.
Sure they could spice it up some more, mix it up a little, but eventually, someone is going to hit that ball with a bat and catch it with a glove.
 

Danny Dowling

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it's a flagship Nintendo game. Peach almost always needs saving, Zelda always needs saving, Samus always shoots up aliens or something...

Nintendo always keep their stuff simple. i say think about it less and just enjoy the game,
 

johnnybleu

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MerlinCross said:
Lazy, Lazy writing. Or just sticking to a formula that could really stand some shaking up.
The problem is that Nintendo is kind of stuck in a rut, especially with the whole "reincarnation" crutch. Link's Awakening and Majora's Mask were both fine games, and neither featured Zelda, the Triforce, or Ganon, but I'd be willing to bet that if such a game were released today, the internet would catch fire. At this point fans want the formula --they expect it, and cherish it-- and if you shake it up too much, well... But this is a bigger issue relating to all game franchises.

Piorn said:
Asking for Main character characterizations in a Nintendo game is like asking to characterize the bat, ball and glove in Baseball. They're devices, not people.
Mario doesn't have a character, neither does Peach, Bowser, Link, Zelda or Ganondorf.
They are not the content, they are the 3 act structure, they are the book, they are the paper the story is written on.
Sure they could spice it up some more, mix it up a little, but eventually, someone is going to hit that ball with a bat and catch it with a glove.
Very well said. I tip my internet hat to you.
 

Rayce Archer

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Fappy said:
Windcaler said:
Rayce Archer said:
So Zelda has the triforce of wisdom. Link has courage, and Ganon has power.

Why does wisdom have to be good all the time?
Youre confusing Intelligence with wisdom. Intelligence has no conotation to descern if something is right or just. Wisdom does (in fact its one of the definitions of wisdom). Intelligence does not equate to wisdom but being wise tends to assume you are also intelligent
It's also a reoccurring theme in the Zelda franchise that one must wield both courage and wisdom to overcome absolute power. While this isn't a concept that needs to be consistent across every title in the franchise, it does make swapping character roles trickier. I can't really see avatars of Courage or Wisdom being corruptible figures considering how overwhelmingly positive those ideals are.
Right doesn't have to mean morally or ethically right. Lots of people have made useful or productive decisions that have harmed others. And the idea that courage is an incorruptibly positive trait doesn't make much sense. Just google "Knight's Cross of the Iron Cross Recipients" for a long list of brave assholes. I don't think it's much of a stretch to paint Link as an entitled sociopath or Gannon as a champion of the disenfranchised (and moblins!). The idea is that instead of making the characters morally absolute cartoons we emphasize the opposing qualities of their respective personalities- the counterpart to kindly wisdom being heartless, analytic decision making, and the counterpart to heroic bravery being zealotry. The counterpart to power that you abuse for personal gain is power you expend for others. It's not a big narrative stretch.
 

SacremPyrobolum

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McMarbles said:
Honestly, I don't know WHY she can't be the hero. The frickin' series is named after her.
WHAT?! You mean the green guy ISN'T named Zelda? But he's my second favorite videogame protagonist of all time behind Halo!

OT: Doesn't really matter to me, Nintendo can do as they wish with the character and they have no moral imperative to do one thing or the other
 

Bombiz

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Methodia Chicken said:
the December King said:
DrOswald said:
I want to play a turn based strategy Zelda game in which you are Zelda commanding the armies of Hyrule against the forces of Ganon. It fits well with her character theme as wisdom is a strong leadership trait. Zelda has, herself, been a capable fighter many times, but she is rarely on par with the more direct power granted by the triforce of power and courage. It would make far more sense for her to lead an army in a genre switching spinoff than replace Link in an action/adventure game. And it could make a really good spin off franchise.
This is the stuff.

This idea has a great weight to it- the forces Ganon control being thwarted by Zelda's competency in directing forces on the battlefield, collecting resources to reinforce her position, undermining the forces of evil and protecting the people of Hyrule sounds like a really fun game- even having Link act as a resource or elite unit!

"World of Triforce"...
Oh I would so play a fire emblem/final fantasy tactics type game like this. with the range of races and cultures in the Zelda universe (multiverse?) you'd get some really diverse units.
Could even counter-play it with an "evil" campaign where you play Gannondorf conquering the kingdom by force.
With tactics more embodying the triforce of power, where units are expendable tools like in advance wars.
instead of trying to carefully and skillfully undermine the enemy you would be focused more on swiftly overwhelming an established kingdom and crushing their morale.

Or perhaps even something more similar to Civ where kingdom management elements like happiness and administration exist could work. As competent as Zelda seems as a commander I feel she would be in her element in dealing with the problems of maintaining peace, could even have her using her father the current king of Hyrule as a puppet.
why not make it a RTS? in fact I'm pretty sure they have something like in the form of "Hyrule Total War" https://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CB8QFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.moddb.com%2Fmods%2Fhyrule-total-war&ei=Arc2VJ2QLcfnsATTnoHQCw&usg=AFQjCNFPJVt6aPbwAB1-byFeBbbIoG5ZiA&bvm=bv.77161500,d.cWc.
 

agent9

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Needs more shiek. I wouldn't mind though, if zelda became the hero and link the prince.
 

ngl42398

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Good to see the non-extreme options have the most votes. I personally said "no, but she could NOT get kidnapped every game".
As that states, I think that Zelda being kidnapped by Ganon/Ghirahim/baddie is kind of an inherent part of the franchise, but it would be cool to have some games where she doesn't get kidnapped.
 

Adam Lester

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agent9 said:
Needs more shiek. I wouldn't mind though, if zelda became the hero and link the prince.
Dude, I skimmed over this and thought it said "Needs more Shreck"

I almost pissed myself.