Poll: Should unsolicited door-to-door sales and telemarketing be made illegal?

[JoJo]

[HEADING=1]JoJo Proudly Presents:[/HEADING]


[HEADING=2]Should unsolicited door-to-door sales and telemarketing be made illegal?[/HEADING]​

Yeah, so this is something I've been thinking about recently. I'm sure most of us could share stories of cold callers ringing us up at inconvenient times, or answering the door in your dressing gown to find some bloke who wants to sell you a new greenhouse. I'll admit, living in a cul-de-sac and being on the Telephone Preference Service I'm not exactly blighted by these but even so, on the rare occasions they do occur they're an annoying breach of privacy. If I'm on the street, it's fair enough to be marketed to but my home is my own space, I hate being disrupted by unsolicited callers.

So, my question today is: should these practices be made illegal? I suggest this because the impression I get is that almost everyone despises unsolicited marketing and the practice annoys a great deal of people for every one sale made. I personally would not buy anything from such a seller on principle, by doing so you are only encouraging them to exist. It seems to me therefore it would be a popular move to ban them completely, with punitive fines for any business or individual that defies the law.

So, do you agree? Are there any benefits to unsolicited marketing which I'm missing? I guess a lot of charities collect donations this way but there's always other ways of collecting, like selling on the street to passersby rather than invading their privacy. Perhaps the TPS could be changed from opt-in to opt-out, so all numbers are automatically signed up to not be cold-called unless specified otherwise. What do you think?

 

[madwarper]

Yea... They should be made illegal. And, all the people who work in those fields should be fired. Because, if there is one thing that there a dire shortage of in is world, it's the unemployed.

 

[Euryalus]

Absolutely not. Who else would I be able to yell at justifiably from day to day to relieve stress?

It's annoying sure, but unless they ignore you telling them to get off your property, or are looking in your windows, or entering your house without your permission, to call it an invasion of privacy is a bit much.

Making it illegal on those grounds seems... tenuous at best.

EDIT: And I'm still waiting on the day you start changing proudly to actually express your mood

JoJo angrily presents

"Fucking Drivers >.<"

Jojo excitedly presents

"I'm going to visit far off exotic places guise!"

Jojo sadly presents

"That one meteor from the hollywood films is about to hit"

 

[JoJo]

Yea... They should be made illegal. And, all the people who work in those fields should be fired. Because, if there is one thing that there a dire shortage of in is world, it's the unemployed.

Heh, I haven't seen pinktext for a good old time, that brings back memories. Or, rather than being fired, those workers could instead be employed to market in ways that don't invade random stranger's privacy? The businesses and charities which use those tactics will still exist and will still need revenue streams after-all.

 

[Lilani]

Heh, I haven't seen pinktext for a good old time, that brings back memories. Or, rather than being fired, those workers could instead be employed to market in ways that don't invade random stranger's privacy? The businesses and charities which use those tactics will still exist and will still need revenue streams after-all.

I'm afraid it doesn't work that way. These businesses would have to come up with a plan for how to market in the future, which would take time. They aren't going to keep all of these people on the payroll for doing nothing, or even if they don't outright fire them all of those people certainly won't be DOING anything until whatever plan they come up with goes through. So they simply won't be scheduled to work, so they simply won't get paid, and so it will be just the same as being unemployed.

Except with the added bonus of not knowing IF you'll ever be scheduled again, because if the business decides their new tactic only requires half the employees, then half of all those employees who were so patiently waiting to be scheduled to work again are not only unemployed, but have wasted a bunch of time they could have been looking for a job because they thought they were getting their job back. Because of this, a company switching to a whole new marketing system would just lay off everybody in their employ who does those menial tasks except perhaps the managers and supervisors and start with a clean slate. Yes many could go apply for a new position with that employer, but not everybody who applies will get their job like that, and in the meantime they'll still have faced a substantial gap in income which isn't good for the economy on a massive scale.

Also, I'd argue that unsolicited phone calls or having a stranger come to your door aren't "invading your privacy." If someone comes to the door you don't want to speak with, then don't open the door. If they won't go away or come persistently, the call the police. If you consider it trespassing, then put a no trespassing sign up and report them to the police. If you don't want to take a call from a telemarketer, then don't answer. If your caller ID didn't inform you they were a telemarketer, then hang up the moment you DO realize they're a telemarketer. If they keep bothering you, then block the number. There are plenty of things that are in your power to circumvent these things, but just remember the exact function of a front door is for people to enter and indicate their presence at your house, and the exact function of a phone is to provide people with a way to contact you from afar. So please excuse these businesses for using these items exactly as intended for something you happen to not like.

 

[tippy2k2]

I'm of two minds on this...

On one hand, you don't have to respond to them (don't answer the phone or just say no and shut the door) but the problem with making it illegal is sometimes they DO have things I want (Come here Girl Scouts!...that sounded less creepy in my head; I want the cookies!) and where exactly would you draw the line? My bank calls me with a new service that might be greatly beneficial to me; the cable company might actually have something useful to give to me; GIRL SCOUT COOKIES!!!!

On the other hand, a lot of these companies using phone/door to door are using either high pressure tactics or straight up deception to get people to buy their shit. About a decade ago in my freshmen year of college, I received a call that sounded great:

"A cheap magazine subscription!" thought a dashingly handsome Tippy2k2. "That sounds just dandy!". Little did our young and naive hero know that you were ACTUALLY signing up for a membership card and one of the perks of said membership card was cheaper magazine subscriptions. Two months, multiple calls to the service to cancel, and about $300 go away before our defeated and now vengeful hero just says "Fuck it" and shuts down his damn bank account rather than continue trying to fight.

 

[Jamash]

Firstly, I don't think that door-to-door callers and phone callers can be grouped together and approached in the same way, so you couldn't make a blanket law to tackle both of them.

Door-to-door callers are already easy enough to deal with under existing laws. You just tell them you're not interested, and if necessary, request that they remove themselves from your property. If they persist, call then they're trespassing and breaking the law. Any further extension of trespassing and property laws to pre-emptively prevent door-to-door callers would be a bit draconian, encroach on the business of legitimate callers (e.g. charity workers, tradesmen like window cleaners and milkmen, postal workers, people conducting official censuses and other political canvassing) and could be perceived as unfairly and unjustly attacking an industry if the new laws specifically target only certain groups.

The problem with telemarketers is there's no guarantee that they'll follow the laws of your country anyway. I'm pretty sure it's already illegal to use fraud, deception and misrepresentation to gain control of somebody's computer and hold their data to ransom, but that doesn't stop the unsolicited calls from "Windows Security Department", or stop the calls from foreigners claiming you've been miss-sold PPI on a loan you didn't take out.

There's already enough legal protection against telemarketers in the form of the Telephone Preference Service, but that only applies to companies in your own county and doesn't do anything to deter the criminal gangs who call you from other countries, who are practically untraceable and untouchable. Those types of unsolicited calls can only really be targeted with international cooperation between governments and by granting the police further reaching powers of investigation and arrest, and give the CPS the power to try foreign nationals who operate out of their own country, but that's not going to work if the government of the country these calls originate from doesn't recognise their action as illegal or is reluctant to take away those jobs from their citizens.

 

[Redd the Sock]

Well, in theory it's not bad. It can be overdone, but there is value in someone bringing you information about products you might like. It's not like I spend a lot of time looking for better internet packages or energy deals (the most common things I try to get sold) so the info could be nice. Shame it usually isn't. The energy guys try to tell me about a rebate or energy credit, then start filling out paperwork for a 5 year contract. The internet and phone companies sell the savings of the first six months with no mention of the price afterward.

I appriciate the right to make a buck, but there's so much dishonesty in the average sales pitch (if not fraud) that I don't even listen anymore.

Of course the automated calls are funny at times. I recently "won" bonus points for a fight I'd been on, from an aitliner I've never used.

 

[JoJo]

I'm afraid it doesn't work that way. These businesses would have to come up with a plan for how to market in the future, which would take time. They aren't going to keep all of these people on the payroll for doing nothing, or even if they don't outright fire them all of those people certainly won't be DOING anything until whatever plan they come up with goes through. So they simply won't be scheduled to work, so they simply won't get paid, and so it will be just the same as being unemployed.

Except with the added bonus of not knowing IF you'll ever be scheduled again, because if the business decides their new tactic only requires half the employees, then half of all those employees who were so patiently waiting to be scheduled to work again are not only unemployed, but have wasted a bunch of time they could have been looking for a job because they thought they were getting their job back. Because of this, a company switching to a whole new marketing system would just lay off everybody in their employ who does those menial tasks except perhaps the managers and supervisors and start with a clean slate. Yes many could go apply for a new position with that employer, but not everybody who applies will get their job like that, and in the meantime they'll still have faced a substantial gap in income which isn't good for the economy on a massive scale.

I'm not going to lie, I don't really find this angle persuasive. Advantages in technology or safety standards change workplaces all the time, sometimes people lose their jobs because of this. I feel sympathy for anyone who would lose their job but I don't see any reason to advocate keeping a redundant and annoying section of industry around solely to preserve jobs.

Also, I'd argue that unsolicited phone calls or having a stranger come to your door aren't "invading your privacy." If someone comes to the door you don't want to speak with, then don't open the door. If they won't go away or come persistently, the call the police. If you consider it trespassing, then put a no trespassing sign up and report them to the police. If you don't want to take a call from a telemarketer, then don't answer. If your caller ID didn't inform you they were a telemarketer, then hang up the moment you DO realize they're a telemarketer. If they keep bothering you, then block the number. There are plenty of things that are in your power to circumvent these things, but just remember the exact function of a front door is for people to enter and indicate their presence at your house, and the exact function of a phone is to provide people with a way to contact you from afar. So please excuse these businesses for using these items exactly as intended for something you happen to not like.

Got to say I've never seen caller IDs and number blocking on a landline phone, maybe the UK is behind the States on this one. If the phone rings, I have to answer it to see who it is. Same with a door knocking, I can't tell if it's something important or just some seller until after I've opened the door. I do already use such functions on my mobile phone to success, the last few spam calls I got were blocked automatically without me having to lift a finger. TPS does help too, even if there are scumbags who are willing to ignore their industry standards and call up anyway. Still, if the majority of people don't want to be bothered by sales calls then I don't see any problem with banning them altogether, or making opt-outs like TPS automatic. There are plenty of ways to block harassment or stalking, doesn't mean they should be legal either.

 

[Tiger King]

I think they should at least have some restrictions placed on them.
Like operating within certain hours, I dunno about anyone else but they always seem to call just as i'm about to sit down and eat dinner. It's very annoying, especially after a days work when you are tired.

I wonder how efficient telemarketing is anyway?

 

[Johnny Novgorod]

Absolutely. Don't make me get up and walk over to the living to answer the phone, you fucking pre-recorded message.

 

[Fractral]

Nah, they're annoying but only in a small way, can be easily ignored and provide jobs for people who might otherwise not have them. If you feel angry at a door-to-door salesman, just remember that they're already being punished- after all, they're the one who has to go to people's doors and get shouted at for no good reason.
Plus, half the salesmen we get are young people on parole or something like that so it's always interesting to have a chat with them.

 

[Scarim Coral]

Mostly yes toward telemarkerting but unsolicited door to door is a different matter. Ok yes you do get annoying door to door saleperson or survey but what about girl scot? My mate (who get regular door to door sale person problem) once told me that there was this girl going door to door selling her artwork. Not sure what to make out of that (I can't remember if she was poor or not).

 

[teqrevisited]

Yes. Just so that they can't advertise said jobs as retail positions and then when you read the description of the role it's essentially you agreeing to buy things from them to sell for yourself.

 

[Aris Khandr]

I'd be in complete agreement with making both practices illegal. Yeah, it would suck for the people who are employed to do those things, but how many people are really employed going door-to-door anymore? It is mostly people out peddling their religion that I encounter, and I'm fine with living without that. The only people I want turning up on my doorstep are people with food for me, and I call them first.

 

[Lilani]

I'm not going to lie, I don't really find this angle persuasive. Advantages in technology or safety standards change workplaces all the time, sometimes people lose their jobs because of this. I feel sympathy for anyone who would lose their job but I don't see any reason to advocate keeping a redundant and annoying section of industry around solely to preserve jobs.

People do lose their jobs because of technology, but at least there's a pretty long phase-in time for that. It takes several years, usually close to a decade, for a new technology to become dominant in any industry. A law would be more like a door just slamming shut, where one day people are employed and the next day they aren't. Unless a good long phase-in time is implemented and many preparations are made to deal with the influx of unemployed, there's no reason to do this.

Because that's the other difference between technology phasing out jobs and a law phasing out jobs: the improvement of technology is inevitable, laws are not. We don't HAVE to make those people unemployed, and if we're going to do so then we'd damn well better make sure we don't take away the livelihood of thousands of people because some people don't know how to block telephone numbers.

Got to say I've never seen caller IDs and number blocking on a landline phone, maybe the UK is behind the States on this one. If the phone rings, I have to answer it to see who it is. Same with a door knocking, I can't tell if it's something important or just some seller until after I've opened the door. I do already use such functions on my mobile phone to success, the last few spam calls I got were blocked automatically without me having to lift a finger. TPS does help too, even if there are scumbags who are willing to ignore their industry standards and call up anyway. Still, if the majority of people don't want to be bothered by sales calls then I don't see any problem with banning them altogether, or making opt-outs like TPS automatic. There are plenty of ways to block harassment or stalking, doesn't mean they should be legal either.

I've never had to block a number myself, but the way I've heard it being done is calling your phone service provider and having them block the number. And I think there's a code to do it...like *67 or something.

You're never going to be truly anonymous in the world, especially when you constantly have on your person a device which allows anybody in the world to contact you if they simply type the right numbers into a similar device. And stop calling it harassment and stalking, hyperbole doesn't exactly help your case. Unless they're persistently calling you at unreasonable hours and literally camping outside your house waiting for you to come home, they aren't harassing or stalking you. And even then both of those actions are already illegal and you can press charges if a telemarketer or solicitor is doing those things. Calling door-to-door salespeople stalkers is an insult to anyone who has ever been stalked.

 

[JoJo]

You're never going to be truly anonymous in the world, especially when you constantly have on your person a device which allows anybody in the world to contact you if they simply type the right numbers into a similar device. And stop calling it harassment and stalking, hyperbole doesn't exactly help your case. Unless they're persistently calling you at unreasonable hours and literally camping outside your house waiting for you to come home, they aren't harassing or stalking you. And even then both of those actions are already illegal and you can press charges if a telemarketer or solicitor is doing those things. Calling door-to-door salespeople stalkers is an insult to anyone who has ever been stalked.

You misunderstand the point I was making. I didn't say telemarketing was harassment or stalking, I said that harassment is illegal despite the existence of blocking technology that can help block repeat harassers. Equally, that telemarketers can be blocked (only after they call you for the first time, of course) doesn't give them an excuse, especially since many where I live in the UK already break the law by ringing people signed up to the TPS due to lax enforcement. Seems the best way to deal with them would be to ban them altogether, cut the head off the snake by giving them no excuse to hide behind.

 

[irok]

Yes , I've seen many a company try and recruit students to act as telemarketers and door knockers while only paying in commission , they use a whole pyramid scheme where if they can get friends to join then they will get a cut of their calls/door knocking and frankly the whole thing stinks, I know the people running around are only doing this because they need money but I can only be polite to the first few before becoming a tad agitated.

 

[lacktheknack]

They're not "invading your privacy" unless they're crawling through your phone like a stupid version of The Ring. You can always not answer unknown phone numbers and not answer your door if you don't want to talk to anyone. I already do these things, and telemarketers can continue doing whatever.

They really don't bother me.