Poll: So I found this "feminist" site

[red dragon 52]

What angers me is how they think that transgender individuals are trying to subvert women. My boyfriend is F to M and is definitely more discriminated against then any woman, gay or straight, and the hatred these people show to him and other trans people is sickening.

This blog is not for gender equalists, but female supremacists. It is full of hatred and pseudo-scientific dribble that has no real bases in reality.

 

[Calibanbutcher]

There are extremists to any group of people feminism is not a exception to this. While all extremism should be exposed and opposed none of this is shocking at the least. I proudly call myself a feminist and I am a male, while I would never support the extreme end of it I see feminism as both a respect and equality issue. A real man has a respect for others therefor any real man must be a feminist.

I'm starting to think we should have our own sub-forum for discussing Feminism.

Or you know what?

Hmmm discussion and support of women's rights or the life of a single common baby animal.
I think women are more valuable than a cat. Things like this are a hot topic because they need to be discussed. This is something that has to happen gender equality and mistreatment issues are a real thing and are still common to this day. The only way it will ever change is if it gathers wide and constant attention. This is something all people should be exposed to and not hidden and tucked away.

This is something that doesn't just effect just women but all of us including you. So just try to bear with it. If you have any doubts that these topics need to exist here go ahead and go to the comments regarding the sexual assault that took place at the PAX minecraft party. The Escapist is no miracle exception.

How is discussing the same topic over and over and over and over and over and over and over again on the "off-topic" forums attached to a site dedicated to video-gaming "supporting women's rights"?
How?
By spreading awareness?
Nope, the news section does that already.
By convincing others to "see the light", aka agreeing with "your" take on things ?
[sub][sub]"your" being used as a placeholder for "everyone arguing in such threads[/sub][/sub]
Anyone truly believe that arguing over the internet will ever change someone's mind?
So, I would rather save a few kittens by NOT arguing about feminism on the escapist, whilst leaving the feminism discussions to the rest of the internet, where I am quite sure many forums dedicated to sexism and the fight against it already exist.

I fail to see your objection on being in off-topic, this thread certainly wouldn't be worthy of falling under news nor should the discussion be limited to news worthy events.
And yes, whether you realize it or not, or perhaps refuse to accept it or not it does create awareness. Also I find no wrong in trying to send a message to others on what I believe to be right when the goal is to aid others and harm none.

While changing a persons views is hard it isn't impossible. As I grow older I still find myself evolving over issues and have changed my positions on things over time. These very forums have actually witnessed myself changing my position on a certain subject and while the discussion itself wasn't a main drive it certainly was a minor one that aided opening up the gate-way of thinking about the subject. I will never be a perfect man but I do wish to better myself and I cannot do that if I make all my behaviors and stances on issues ironclad.

But aiming at those who are ironclad isn't the goal anyways. To win over those who are undecided or young minds who need to be put on the right path. Take America and racism as a great example of this. While racism is still very present it looks pathetic compared to the terrible past and the actions that were common place. This isn't because the majority saw the light suddenly but rather people age out and die. Entire generations go away and this leaves opportunity for progress within the next. This is how society evolves over time on issues and why we often find ourselves still tackling what generations before us were.

The aim should focus on young males to sway them towards the path of respecting women and young females to teach them to NEVER see themselves as less than a man or to endure being treated like such. If you think such a thing cannot be done online you would be wrong.
I met a 13 year old kid who happened to stumble into one of my clan's servers and right away he goes straight to harassing and saying the typical rhetoric to one of our female members.
Not the stuff boys stupidly do at that age either but the stuff that is learned and passed down. Instead of banning the kid I decided to step in and talk to him, which of course lead to unpleasantry at first. But in the end I convinced him to talk to me more and we did, I shared my views and he began evolve his behavior and his views. I also learned that he was extremely disrespectful to his mother who was the single parent in his life and that changed too. He is now 19 year old a man in the US Army, respects women and is a fine example of what a man should be. I still talk and game with him to this day.

I do not take credit for his progress but I did point him in the right direction and tell him why I believe it is such and he did the rest. We should not shirk our duty as adults in guiding the youth onto a better path no matter where the opportunity arises.

Feminism is not a topic for the "Off-topic" board.
It belongs with religion and politcs, since it is primarily a political issue.

And I still stand by my point, that this board has seen enough "feminism" topics already.

There were 3 topics concerning feminism/sexism/gender issues on the front page of the off-topics board just now, and in the news section there is another one being advertised to me, as is in the most commented section, plus there is ANOTHER one in the gaming forum.


yes feminism is important.
yes we need to reach the youth, but NOT BY SPAMMING THIS BOARD WITH MORE FEMINISM THREADS EACH AND EVERY DAY, but by educating them IN REAL LIFE.

you managed to change one guy one-on-omn. And kudos to you for doing so, I appreciate what you did.
But I still stand-by what I said:
On an internet forum with communications taking place in the form of anonymous messages, you will not sway a single mind, no matter how eloquent and thoughtful your posts are.

While I do agree that it spans into a political issues I would disagree that it is primarily such. Even if every government world wide came into full acceptance of gender equality and respected all of the rights women should have Feminism would still be required. It isn't just laws that are flawed, this wouldn't solve behavior and attitudes towards women. It's not like once African Americans achieved equal rights after so long of oppression that suddenly public flipped like a light switch and everyone was kind and loving to them just because the laws changed. The political agenda if anything is the minority part as nothing will truly change unless the people willfully adopt the methods of thinking over time.

So feminism threads if regarding actual political talks such as "Middle eastern country X has opened voting to women for the first time" That would be political. A topic like this however would be a random and thus off-topic discussion. It of course isn't limited to that a discussion about the Hitman game's trailer with the latex nuns that many found offensive would fit right into gaming with a feminist discussion.

If you disagree with me still, just reverse the role a bit. Imagine a AAA game with so much hype and buzz was found to have a extremely racist outlook and message upon a certain race. You wouldn't go post a thread in the political section about it. Misogyny is really no different than racism but instead of race it's gender based. It shouldn't be treated any differently.

As for minds being reached or not I cannot guarantee such but you, yourself point out the popularity of these discussions and they do clearly get a-lot of attention so I believe you are mistaken. These forums I would presume have a rather young in median age and if anything getting attention with the current trends with the youth is by far the way to go.

Ah, on one part you are wrong: I would banish a "triple A racism-discussion" to the "gaming" subforum. (And we had a rather extensive hitman discussion as well)
And as for popularity:
Who is it that reads these discussions?
People like me, that find the flame-wars amusing and those that are already interested in the subject at hand.

And I had another idea:
Maybe we should change religion and politic to "religion, politic and society" that way we could banish the feminism threads there, thos interested in them could spend their time there, the youth would be reached through the news feed
(Hitman Nuns, Borderlands 2 Girlfriend mode, Notch rage over sexual assault).
Your thoughts?

So why would be willing to give gaming special treatment and allow a topic that would be related to feminism there but not off topic ones being in the off topics? It seems you are taking a rather pick and choose stance on this rather than judging fairly. Also I doubt that, people of all kinds will read it and your responses have been nothing but mature and I do believe my replies have been as well. I'm certainly not involved in any flaming here and have no desire in getting into a poo throwing match with others.

As for adding society to that section and throwing feminism topics into there, then the same argument could be made about any topic. Everything from the music made and enjoyed to now mainstream video game industry is a reflection upon our society. The comic-cons and E3 type events all reflect upon our current society. To toss Feminism into there alone would simply be out of bias. I get it you are tired of hearing about it, but you are hearing about it because it is a issue. Women's rights is something that effects everyone, no matter where one happens to be born, their religion or lack of, their race, or if they are male or female. But I do understand you feel like you are being overwhelmed with the topic and I don't mean this in a rude manner so please do not take it as such. But this is something that is larger than you, and yes larger than me. Just bear with it, it may not seem like it, but it is for the best.

Well, I object to the notion of being "pick and choose" about the forums I want to "allow" feminist discussions in.
If the thread is about sexism in games / in one specific video-game, then it belongs with the gaming forums.
If it is about real-world issues (e.g. father in rural germany wearing skirt, sexual assault not being punished harshly enough / too harsh / being drunk means you can / can not consent, women in geek-culture) then I would argue it belongs with the (non-existant) society forum, since all of these topics basically boil down to "the place of women in society" or "sexual assault and society's stance on it"
If however it is pure flame-bait (read: THIS thread) it belongs exactly no-where.
However, that is only my take on it and I understand why you would disagree with me, but agree with your viewpoint I do not.

And as for your accusations of being mature:

Spoiler

fudge sundae, banana muffin, titty sprinkles



 

[TeletubbiesGolfGun]

Does the fact that some women enjoy submitting and handing over control to a man really bother you so much that you refuse to respect what they do?

Who said it bothers me? Or did you just assume? Oh you did. Cool.

I don't like the male dominant version because I dislike men having any power. My current boyfriend enjoys it, so I've little reason to care about changing lol.

I'll refuse to allow a man any say sexually, but am willing to take a lesser role with a woman.

>Radical personal views, does everything to justify it

>Claims never said anything and purposefully trolls instead of having a level headed debate

....the world is clearly against you, we will all submit to you since that is the only way in your eyes.

Not wanting to be with a dominant man in bed is radical? So, how many men have you allowed to pin you down in bed lately?

lol way to avoid everything I just posted. I guarantee I already know the response to this, but I'll toss it out there anyways, you do realize that you don't have to be with any dominating person, and that there IS this fancy thing called "take and give"? Not to mention your being a hypocritical borderline misanthropist, considering you'd never allow a man to, but a woman you would. Your boyfriend might allow you to be always dominant, but have you ever once had the thought go through your mind that he might not ALWAYS like that? Quite selfish.

"allowed" to pin me down? zero, but I was pinned down 4-5 times in the past week, got farted on once in that process, but if you are referring to stuff in the bedroom, no one has to be "pinned down", sex isn't some fucking battle with you versus them, generally i prefer to work with the person and see what gets us both going.

 

[TeletubbiesGolfGun]

have you ever once had the thought go through your mind that he might not ALWAYS like that?

Let's ask him, shall we?

I'll get him in here.

once again, dodging the rest of the post, always classy.

regardless, you'll never know the real answer, he could just say "he doesn't mind" just to get you to drop it, and even then "he doesn't mind" is a neutral answer, it's not signifying at all if that's what he truly enjoys. I just hope that thought actually goes through your mind when you always have to have reigns in the bedroom.

 

[TeletubbiesGolfGun]

snip

in case you missed it, in my original post I had a very sarcastic "assumptions, assumptions everywhere pic" which clearly covered that fact. Not to mention, she completely dodged that post after she got called out on it..but, anyways, I couldn't care less what actually goes on between you two, if you got something goin on that works.

but anyways, getting down to it

"give and take"

do you not know what that means? it is not about transactions, i clearly intended it for "sharing", as that is what normal people tend to do when having sex.

seriously, go look it up if you must, it's about collaborating with the other person for optimal cooperation.

once again, dodging the rest of the post, always classy.

regardless, you'll never know the real answer, he could just say "he doesn't mind" just to get you to drop it, and even then "he doesn't mind" is a neutral answer, it's not signifying at all if that's what he truly enjoys. I just hope that thought actually goes through your mind when you always have to have reigns in the bedroom.

Well, fancy that, he and I enjoy what we do together. Shocking, I know.

Oh and by the way, misanthropy doesn't mean you hate men. It's poor form to use words you don't know.

Well fancy that, instead of accounting for all of my posts, you physically go and get him to respond to try and prove some point built up in your head. Shocking that your boyfriend likes doing stuff with you, I know.

Correct, for some reason misandry is not liked by the escapist auto correct text box..so it corrected it to that. Still, at least your addressing my posts more now, maybe I'll go back and put more grammar nazi mistakes in my post to see if you'll bite at em.

have you ever once had the thought go through your mind that he might not ALWAYS like that?

Let's ask him, shall we?

I'll get him in here.

once again, dodging the rest of the post, always classy.

Just give it up. The bint haven't acknowledged a single sentence she doesn't have an answer to. Deflection, desperately ignoring what she can't deal with and outright trolling is all you have to look forward to when dealing with her. Oh, and mod-baiting. Let's not forget that.

Well it's a slow day in teletubby land, so I might as well have a wonderful chat with someone of her caliber.

Still, appreciate the post, I lol'd with a facepalm a few times earlier reading you calling out her posts. Funny stuff at that.

 

[Mylinkay Asdara]

[sub][sub]Also, 50 Shades of Grey? What, you thought the smeared toilet paper of the book world was a good point of study?[/sub][/sub]

I've almost finished reading it, I wanted to be included and I wanted to be able to say it was bad on good authority.

I was not disappointed. The woman cannot write, at all, even ignoring the plot and the terribly constructed characters. She loves the word 'beguiled' too. Oh, oh and the main character drinks Twining's English Breakfast tea, she always writes "Ana has some Twining's English Breakfast tea", never "Ana drinks some fucking tea".
Seriously, I'm basically at the end and she's still pointing out that her main character likes English classics and Twining's English Breakfast tea. Never mind how often she name drops classic literature she has obviously never read and... Okay, I'm going to stop now.

Oh crap. Really? If that is why my local store was out of that kind of tea... the world is ridiculous. Just silly at this point. (There aren't many selections of Twinings Tea the average local store in the US, and I don't go out of my way 20 miles to find a fancy tea store just to have a wake up cup, for those who live in the glorious land I once stayed in where Twinings varieties need half an aisle and wouldn't understand my pain.)

 

[TeletubbiesGolfGun]

Shocking that your boyfriend likes doing stuff with you, I know.

Yes. Yes he does like what we have together. He loves it. He loves me. I the same. Why are you telling me this? You've confused me.

Well I did use a confuse ray attack on you, and so I was trying to set you straight.

Spoiler

way to dodge the rest of the post again, quite a strapping young lady at that.

 

[TeletubbiesGolfGun]

Shocking that your boyfriend likes doing stuff with you, I know.

Yes. Yes he does like what we have together. He loves it. He loves me. I the same. Why are you telling me this? You've confused me.

Well I did use a confuse ray attack on you, and so I was trying to set you straight.

Spoiler

way to dodge the rest of the post again, quite a strapping young lady at that.

So, you don't actually have any point at all? I mean, if you do, go ahead and actually say so. Right now you're not really saying anything. You started by stating my partner and I's sex life was selfish and somehow wrong, but then switched to say it's not.

So... nice?

haha woah woah woah, going on the offensive AFTER you ignored most of my posts?

do you realize how "full of fuck" that is?

If you clearly read the original post, it was not about your partner and yours sex life being selfish and/or wrong.

 

[TeletubbiesGolfGun]

snip.

Does the fact that some women enjoy submitting and handing over control to a man really bother you so much that you refuse to respect what they do?

Who said it bothers me? Or did you just assume? Oh you did. Cool.

I don't like the male dominant version because I dislike men having any power. My current boyfriend enjoys it, so I've little reason to care about changing lol.

I'll refuse to allow a man any say sexually, but am willing to take a lesser role with a woman.

>Radical personal views, does everything to justify it

>Claims never said anything and purposefully trolls instead of having a level headed debate

....the world is clearly against you, we will all submit to you since that is the only way in your eyes.

original post...right there.

you were saying?

captcha: good luck


thanks captcha, glad you are rooting for me

 

[That Greek Guy]

i am a necrophilic rapist?
......good to know

 

[TeletubbiesGolfGun]

snip.

Does the fact that some women enjoy submitting and handing over control to a man really bother you so much that you refuse to respect what they do?

Who said it bothers me? Or did you just assume? Oh you did. Cool.

I don't like the male dominant version because I dislike men having any power. My current boyfriend enjoys it, so I've little reason to care about changing lol.

I'll refuse to allow a man any say sexually, but am willing to take a lesser role with a woman.

>Radical personal views, does everything to justify it

>Claims never said anything and purposefully trolls instead of having a level headed debate

....the world is clearly against you, we will all submit to you since that is the only way in your eyes.

original post...right there.

you were saying?

captcha: good luck


thanks captcha, glad you are rooting for me

Please do tell me what is radical about the post.

Also pretty sure I never claimed that I "never said anything," and calling someone a troll or accusing someone of trolling is against the forum's rules, so I'll ignore that one.

ohhhh so now you are going to go back and address it? wonderful

about the post? well the fact that you said "who said it bothers me?" when i clearly snagged two posts by you where it clearly DOES bother you, therefore calling you out. not to mention it's a very hypocritical viewpoint based on gender, ergo when i said misandry.

ignoring points and deflecting conversations in your favor while attacking others viewpoints. yes, forget that i used the word troll, i'll just say that sentence everytime.

against the forum rules! oh my goodness...*whew* in this debate, i almost perched up to give a fuck.

Spoiler: with all this bouncing around on posts:

 

[TeletubbiesGolfGun]

snip

but you had said it before, therefore, it was of your belief, and it was fair game for them to call you out on it.

once again, "crazy pills", i must be eating a whole bottle of them...

it wasn't the fact that they "assumed" as such, it was the fact that you do have that belief, which is why they were calling you out on it.

next point?

 

[TeletubbiesGolfGun]

Babe, give 'em hell. I'll rejoin this hateboner gangrape attempt when I get back home.

oh how dominating of you.

I'll leave you a spot open on the side here, perfect 50 yard line seat.

 

[iTeamKill]

heh, if sucking a dick does all that to a women, I wonder what it does to a man. :3

 

[EstrogenicMuscle]

I don't see it attacking women who have sex with men, I see it attacking the social standard of femsub and maledom as the norm. That isn't attacking sex or female sex or men at all. I don't know where you're getting all of these so called "heterophobic" or "misandrist" accusations here, but the article is spot on.

IT'S NOT ATTACKING MALE SEXUALITY. IT'S ATTACKING MALE DOMINANCE.

Why is it that feminists cannot say something truthful or good or anything without being strawmanned?

 

[Phasmal]

I wonder how the website would interpret that.

Why would you care for the opinion of people who label themselves radfems?
(The word rad will forever just make me think of Fallout).

Radical people will probably find something wrong in what you do no matter what you do.

As an aside, I'm not really attracted to tattoos. Mostly because the only people I really know who have tattoos are my parents. But I do like knowing the stories behind them.

 

[EstrogenicMuscle]

But the whole point of the whole 'consent' thing is that the women want to be dominated by a male.

Wait, what? No. That's ridiculous.

Some women want to be "dominated" or rather, taken initiative upon in bed. But that doesn't constitute all women. And this blog makes the poignant observation that, while much of our sexuality we do not choose, much of our sexuality may be dictated by society.

And society is dictating that the sexual norm should be that men are sexually aggressive and women are sexually submissive. That isn't healthy. That is a male supremacist, patriarchal value.

A value that should be taken a second look at. It doesn't mean that "sub" feelings in women and "dom" feelings in men are always bad. But the standard is bad and we should take a second look at why many of us have these feelings.

 

[EstrogenicMuscle]

I can foresee the argument that they can only want this due to the brainwashing by a male-dominated society, which I feel is rather the larger point; that women only allow themselves to be dominated because they're brainwashed into believing they want that, at least according to the blog.

Why do people always use this "brainwashing" buzzword retort whenever someone implies that many people like something because of society? Particularly when they imply something is caused by society when they don't believe it is causes by society.

It severely underestimates the power of culture and I'm tired of seeing it. In fact I wish I said this sooner because I'm seeing this "brainwashing" word trash thrown around everywhere.

Our personal experiences, much of which are cultural in origin, determine much of all of our values and feelings about things. That's not "brainwashing", that's the reality of our species. Other animals don't have culture. And our culture is a large part of what makes us the human being that we are, whether we accept or deviate from our cultural values. In which case here, feminists are being deviants and rebels based upon personal morals they find in conflict with the majority.

Yes, culture influences us. It influences what toys we want to play with as children, it influences what food we want to eat, it influences what political parties we support, it influences what we want to look like, and it even influences who we want to date and how we want to date them.

That is the reality. Culture is powerful. And sometimes, we need to take a look at things about it which could be better.

If most women, do indeed to be "dominated" or at least initiated upon, the question is, is why. There is always a why and a skeptical mind is always curious. Many evolutionary psychologists believe that is it neurological. And feminists tend to combat this belief with the only actual logical alternative, that it is cultural.

Because sadly much of evolutionary psychological claims, are neurosexist claims that male supremacy is biological, neurological. And allows people to erroneously believe the unequal status quo biological fact and deviating from that is a waste of time.

Norms have to come from somewhere. They aren't unexplainable random occurrences. They come from somewhere. And it is the feminist position, and my position, that they are cultural, not biological.

 

[EstrogenicMuscle]

Wait... that was on the blog? My mistake, I thought it was an argument against the blog by you.

I wish they didn't use the wording "brainwashing", because it is frequently used against our case.

I'm frequently saying culture influences people's desires and behaviors with "oh, so you just think women want that because they're brainwashed, huh?".

My apologies for the miscommunication. I often do a lot of skimming to save time. Forum usage is time consuming, after all.

 

[EstrogenicMuscle]

but that culture had to come from somewhere.

True, but that doesn't mean that thing is mostly biologically hardwired, cannot be changed, and managed to sink its teeth into our neural networks. Furthermore, culture is a complicated things. And things that don't make a whole lot of sense do seep into culture. As culture becomes more complicated, it works almost like its own organism and not every meme or so comes from biology. We develop things like religion and all sorts of other things that don't make sense. We can understand why we might have come up with them, like a need to cope with the pain of death. And once culture accelerates, it can create things that are far removed from its biological origins.

And also, there appear to have indeed, been, for instance, Matriarchal societies. The Hongshan culture is believed by many anthropologists to have been matriarchal, and that is just one of them. Also many notable animist religions have been led by women. So certainly many women have been put into positions of power. It may seem like things always "naturally" go towards male empowerment over women, but that isn't always the case.

Honestly, this idea that our society wants to keep women down is just nuts to me, it's nothing more than thousands of years of instincts assigning us to our places

And the reason that there are still people in the world who think that way is why I am a feminist and why I believe that feminism is still necessary.