Poll: So the F-22 has been cancelled

[RicoADF]

And I hope everyone realizes that the reason we have no enemy fighters to fight is because our dogfighters are so damn good. One could argue that the F-15 is still doing fine, and I would agree to a good extent, however that is not the point of this. The need for the fighter may have manifested itself in the Cold War era but the fact that the USSR is dissolved is in no way the defining reason the F-22 is a bad investment. Air superiority fighters are a must in any air force that wishes to have any fucking chance in a fight, let alone survive.

No, the reason there are no enemies to fight is that war is expensive and no-one except the US is silly enough to do it, especially against another military. The SU27/30/35 etc are far superior to a F-22 and the stealth features aren't nearly as effective as the military trys to make the public believe.
Saying that the F-22 is an awesome plane to look at and fly in games, but its cost is so much more than a F-15 (which can do the job if not better then a F-22) it's economically not worth it.

As a side note, the F-35 has alot of the F-22's failings and then some, however its lower price and being designed to be a strike fighter (which stealth is a big plus for) give it a chance to get away with it.

And lack of communication to other aircraft? How much more bs will they throw out there? It is hardly a difficult to gets communications up to par with the rest of our forces, no matter what the F-22 has.

She's explained this wrong, its not that the plane is incapable, its that if the plane uses any active radio or radar (as in sends a signal or a pulse of radar) then it'll be detected by the enemy and thus its stealth is taken down and its useless.

 

[gl1koz3]

As the world becomes more interconnected, physical wars can become obsolete. We just have to wait until the no-internet generation dies off and we're good to go settling our fights in Halo.

 

[Kair]

I'm going to stop writing now, before I tick off everyone on the forum...

Too late, you already did.

 

[Cookiegerard]

Ah well, the american's still have A-10 Thunderbolt's for ground mission's, and the F-15E, which is "All weather"..... while us Irish have little or nothing, all we pretty much have is the weapons that where taken during the trouble's.... so I think American's have no right to complain...

 

[lukey94]

It's okay America, we Brits know your trouble we recently cancelled our Harriers and share our Aircraft carriers with France .......

 

[RuralGamer]

The F-22 is an air superiority fighter and who exactly is America fighting for control of the skies with? F-35 is multirole aircraft that can handle practically any mission type thrown at it.

Europe and Russia didn't bother jumping straight to 5th generation fighters; we built '4.5' aircraft like the Eurofighter (which cost half of the F-22 to develop) and the Su-35; both are cheaper and more practical. No one else (save Russia now) actually has working prototype 5th generation fighter; America has an active 5th generation fighter they won't deploy or sell in case it falls into foreign hands - well what's the point in it existing then?

I'll admit the F-22 is aesthetically beautiful and I don't doubt its capabilities, but it seems to be nothing more than a white elephant. It's too advanced and by the time it becomes the norm, other nations will have found cheaper, simpler ways to deploy the same technology.

 

[RuralGamer]

It's okay America, we Brits know your trouble we recently cancelled our Harriers and share our Aircraft carriers with France .......

Tell me about it - sure Dave, we need cuts, but I'm sure that you can just fire all those overpriced consultants the MoD hires and still make the same savings.

 

[Raptorace18]

Lets all just remember; its not the capacity of the plane that has the final say in the out come of a fight, but the quality of the pilot.

We can talk about BVR combat and stealth until the cows come home and puck all over the lawn but the fact is a new pilot fresh out of flight school in the F-22 is always going to have a huge disadvantage against the combat hardened veteran in an F-15.

 

[Rockchimp69]

Bullshit.

The United States needs an air superiority fighter to replace the F-15. This women knows nothing about combat, the importance of air superiority and how disarmament DOES NOT WORK. It cost money to be the best, and I for one expect my government to protect me from ALL enemies foreign and domestic.

This women enrages me. I really think that she does not understand what an air superiority fighter is supposed to do. Which is one thing, kill enemy fighters. It doesn't need armour against small arms because it will be flying at 30,000 feet or better at mach 2. Her dissenting voice drives me to kill babies, god damn she is annoying.

Granted, the structuring of how it was manufactured is flawed (cash expenditures.) But the need for an air superiority fighter is still here. The USSR isn't around any more, but China and India are going to be the new threats to western ways of life.

I'm going to stop writing now, before I tick off everyone on the forum...

I HAVE BEEN TICKED OFF BY YOUR POST..
Just kidding

So why does disarmament not work? Because not everyone in the world agrees to it and we end up laying down our weapons in front of someone who will stop at nothing to kill us?

 

[Crolley]

Lets all just remember; its not the capacity of the plane that has the final say in the out come of a fight, but the quality of the pilot.

We can talk about BVR combat and stealth until the cows come home and puck all over the lawn but the fact is a new pilot fresh out of flight school in the F-22 is always going to have a huge disadvantage against the combat hardened veteran in an F-15.

I'm with Raptor Ace. Whether you think the F-22 is the best, or the Eurofighter or a Sukhoi or a MiG, none of these aircraft are so much more advanced than the other that it can compensate, in any meaningful way, for a difference of skill between pilots.

It's been like this for a long time. Pilot quality (including their training and tactics) has proven to be the most important factor in combat aviation, even above numbers and superior aircraft, ever since WWI.

 

[BonsaiK]

China and India are going to be the new threats to western ways of life.

China and India are the enablers of the western way of life!

If you don't believe me, get the keyboard you're in front of now, flip it over, and tell me where it's made.

It's made in Kentucky. It's a Unicomp Customizer, based on the IBM Model M, which had previously been made in Scotland. This isn't a Chinese-made keyboard.

You're the exception that proves the rule.

 

[Glademaster_v1legacy]

I do agree that it should be scrapped given certain things but I do think that should create something that is either equal to it or better more economically which I am sure they can do. It was designed in the Cold War awasn't it? I am sure anyone if they have enough people can put their mind to making a better craft. Although they do need to keep Air superiority crafts just maybe use them less.

 

[Private Custard]

haha, 1 eurofighter typhoon would bash 3 f-22

Thats funny because the Eurofighter couldn't even find an F-22 much less hit it.

You'd be surprised. There are ways around stealth if you're willing to try. I've heard numerous reports of the Typhoon holding its own against the Raptor during excercises in the U.S.

The US Air Force has already begun to take delivery of another superjet, the F-22 Raptor.

This is very stealthy but costs twice the price of the Eurofighter, and reports suggest that RAF's Eurofighters have flown highly successful missions against the F-22 during recent exercises in the US.

Source (fairly old, dated 2006) http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/1818077.stm


There's no reason why it shouldn't do well, it's different to the Raptor, but has just as many plus points......just in different areas.

But, as others have pointed out, the pilot is a major contributing factor, and in this respect, I'm way more confident in the abilities of the RAF.

It just kills me a little inside, seeing what the current government are doing to our airforce

 

[hunterm16a2]

http://www.acc.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123041831

Anyone who doubts the capabilities of the F-22 need only look at the only place it has ever actually been in a "dogfight": Red Flag. Now, I'm glad we stopped making them when we did, and I think it's expensive and certainly unnecessary for our current fights, but calling it incapable, useless, or problematic is anything but accurate.

The way I see it, people who want it cancelled call it too terrible to exist, and people who deem it America's only line of defense deem it too fantastic to shelf, but neither group actually looks at what the plane accomplishes. It has proven to be a vastly superior dogfighter, and a capable combat aircraft. It sports a higher price tag than other planes, sure, but the price does pay for an extremely competent aircraft.

It seems some of you may not even understand how stealth works. It's not a "system" that is installed, and sending communications does not void an aircraft's "stealth capabilities". Stealth makes an aircraft invisible to radar systems, primarily weapons targeting systems, by reflecting the radar waves in wide angles. This gives the aircraft a radar cross section too small to be detected or targeted. The quote in the article I used,

"I can't see the [expletive deleted] thing," said RAAF Squadron Leader Stephen Chappell, exchange F-15 pilot in the 65th Aggressor Squadron. "It won't let me put a weapons system on it, even when I can see it visually through the canopy. [Flying against the F-22] annoys the hell out of me."

refers to the fact that this Aussie pilot can't shoot at the F-22 with any of his weapons systems, no infrared, no radar, nothing, because the systems cannot tell it is there. Now, he could shoot it down with his cannon, but given that an American F-22 pilot, coupled with the F-22, will out-maneuver anything in the sky, he didn't get that chance.

The most frustrating complaint about the F-22 I've seen thus-far is that it is of a cold-war design. That it was designed to fight an enemy we are no longer planning to fight. While this is true, that statement rings true about *every other combat aircraft we operate*. Everything we have right now was designed in the 80's or earlier, with the exception of UAV's and a handful of other cutting edge equipment. The F-22 may be a Cold War relic, but it's not useless, and 187 is more than enough. Other *more unnecessary* projects were more expensive, and there's not a peep about them like the B-2 Spirit, or the Zumwalt Class destroyers, or even the ancient "Sea Shadow".

All-in-all, complain all you want about this problem or that problem, but when the F-22 was actually pitted against modern aircraft flown by well-trained pilots, it smoked them. I'm glad it's no longer being built, but no real aircraft is capable of what the F-22 is. Speculate all you want about what a Sukhoi or Typhoon can do, but pilots from several air forces can actually show you what the F-22 does.

Another good article on Typhoon vs. F-22.
http://www.ausairpower.net/Analysis-Typhoon.html

 

[Eclectic Dreck]

The biggest "threat to western way of life" is the USA itself. Anyone looking at military spending and equipment between countries, who thinks that the USA is a defender, rather than an aggressor, has lost more than common sense.

So yup, good riddance.

Yet none of that was the basis of the argument I was presented.

Spoiler alert to those who didn't know: military equipment exists in two states: failing and broken. Plenty of military equipment turns in worse numbers in terms of operational hours versus maintenance hours. Hell, pick any helicopter currently in service if you want a horror story.

And if you want to talk expensive, just look at the HMMWV. The most basic model has a line item cost to the government that is greater than the luxury (but in most ways identical) civilian model. By tens of thousands of dollars. The armor kit that went on my HMMWV, literally just 3/4 inch thick RHA slabs that I had to bolt into place myself, cost the government tens of thousands of dollars.

 

[StBishop]

Bullshit.

The United States needs an air superiority fighter to replace the F-15. This women knows nothing about combat, the importance of air superiority and how disarmament DOES NOT WORK. It cost money to be the best, and I for one expect my government to protect me from ALL enemies foreign and domestic.

This women enrages me. I really think that she does not understand what an air superiority fighter is supposed to do. Which is one thing, kill enemy fighters. It doesn't need armour against small arms because it will be flying at 30,000 feet or better at mach 2. Her dissenting voice drives me to kill babies, god damn she is annoying.

Granted, the structuring of how it was manufactured is flawed (cash expenditures.) But the need for an air superiority fighter is still here. The USSR isn't around any more, but China and India are going to be the new threats to western ways of life.

I'm going to stop writing now, before I tick off everyone on the forum...

Pretty sure India like us (The British Commonwealth) dude. They play cricket with us a bunch.

Edit: Sorry I don't think I made sence. They're a part of the British Commonwealth. As in they have the same Queen as the UK, Australia, New Zealand and a bunch of other people that are currently fighting in a war to protect freedoms.

 

[tkioz]

I honestly have no clue why they keep building pure fighters, the recent wars in the middle east have shown they need fighter bombers more, hell Australia's F-111 did a shit load of bombing and those planes are old.

 

[Wintermoot]

all lies WHY THE FUCK DO YOU WANT SUCH A TERRIBLE FIGHTER?! if it really is as terrible as she describe,s it the minestry of defence was on crack when they adopted that plane
PS then again they also adopted the M16 as a assault rifle (for those who never heard of it, it was so bad the geurilea forces didnt even wanted to pick them up it had a habbit of jamming,was hard to clean and the stock would shatter if you wanted to use it as a improviced club)