Poll: So Valve broke HL1...

[Connor Lonske]

he didn't say he had a laptop outright in the OP. he said the word laptop yes, but "the problem i have is on a laptop" he did not. however i did not read the thread so shame on me anyways i guess.

also it's hl1. what matters is that it plays and if the frame rate isn't like an xbox 360 trying to play the PC version of crisis.

Dude

Now, I don't have anything against OGL per se, but my intel integrated can't handle OpenGL for shit, and I am stuck with 5FPS (playing sven coop, which requires OGL or D3D). Why do I care? LAN-parties on laptops...

Why would he bring up LAN parties on laptops if he had a problem with a desktop PC? What logical reason would there be for that? Because when the game lags he randomly keeps thinking of different platforms and circumstances? Yes, it's not outright "I have a laptop and when I use it to have a LAN party with other people" but it's pretty clear that's the meaning.

And it matters because 5-10 FPS is just awful - quite visible stuttering and slowdowns, it's even worse when you have to play the game with somebody else. 50-60 FPS is fine, 30 FPS is OK-ish, although some people do have problems with that, 15 for an action game is borderline before it's really bad, below it it's really bad. Try this [https://frames-per-second.appspot.com/] - set the FPS to 5 or 10 and remove the motion blur. Compare it with, say, 30.

you have a point, and agrueing over this is dumb and off topic.

on topic, i agree with what you've said about frame rates for games, but you don't really need a amazing one for a game like hl1, nor do you need it to not look like shit because it's almost 15 years old and by that determination already looks like shit

 

[Stryc9]

In a weird move from valve, they are fiercely updating the first (yes, that old poo) half-life.

"What did they fix?!" you ask, "What new features we got?" you cry.

Uh, none. They removed D3D. They removed EAX.

Only two options remain in the video rendering department - software (uh...) and OpenGL(UH...!)

Now, I don't have anything against OGL per se, but my intel integrated can't handle OpenGL for shit, and I am stuck with 5FPS (playing sven coop, which requires OGL or D3D). Why do I care? LAN-parties on laptops...

And this is why I don't like Steam. first they force us to use steam's auth servers, and now THIS? Come ON!

VALVE, WHAT THE FUCK?


Discussion value: What do you think of such moves? (also the question in the poll, escapist ate it)

I say it's being an asshole. Were it a fresh buy I would definitely demand my cash back. I think it is definitely wrong to downgrade a game - even as old as this - just to satisfy some 'policy'. Fine, don't add DirectX to new games Valve*, but why downgrade purchased copies?

What next? "Multiplayer has been dropped in new build"?



*oh right, you don't make games anymore.


EDIT: it seems it happened almost a year ago... still, haven't heard about it till now.

You can find a copy on disc somewhere, try second hand stores, depending on where you live you should have next to no problem finding a copy. You'll be free of Steam's screwed up copy completely.

 

[jehk]

Not really surprised. DX is going the way of the Dodo.

 

[Rad Party God]

I have a 2004 HP laptop and I can perfectly play Half-Life 1 in OGL at 60 fps in 1280x800.

What was the complaint again?.

Also, Valve did so to give the game a better compatibility with Linux, take that as you will.

 

[DoPo]

on topic, i agree with what you've said about frame rates for games, but you don't really need a amazing one for a game like hl1, nor do you need it to not look like shit because it's almost 15 years old and by that determination already looks like shit

Well, "over 10 FPS" should not be considered amazing by any stretch of the word. It'd call that "playable" myself. And I still like how HL looks - I too do LAN parties and we play it, along with Quake 3 and other games. Yes, it's not ultra mega photorealistic but it doesn't have to be, also it looks adequate. I don't see why the attitude of "it doesn't need to look better, since there are other games that look better". That's just a very bizarre thing to say - if something has a defect, should we not mind because something different works better?

 

[Weaver]

They're clearly doing this to push OGL for Linux and Mac adoption (D3D is not available on any other platform but windows).

 

[Something Amyss]

Valve did it, so it's good.

I can't wait to find out EA did something similar in a week or so, so that I might rage about how horrible it is.

 

[DoPo]

I have a 2004 HP laptop

I'm sorry but I just have to say this - a 2004 HP laptop? That's an absolute damage sponge, man. I hope it doesn't have a huge armour class, otherwise it would take hours to take down.

I'm here all week, folks!

 

[Sable Gear]

Just download Black Mesa and play that.

There is no COOP for Half Life 2. Also, I don't own HL2. Neither do my buddies with whom I play. Furthermore, Source games are more demanding than their GoldSRC counterparts.

I'm not sure I understand the second point of your rebuttal. You don't need HL2 to download and play Black Mesa, you just need the Source Base SDKs (2006 and 2007) which are free from Steam's Software store. I can sympathize with a computer's limitations, though. BM runs pretty well on my machine, it's only a year old and not a gaming laptop by any means.

 

[Atmos Duality]

Am I glad i found the Sierra/Valve Anthology for a couple of euro's (no steam required). This is one of the reason's why I don't use Steam since '11.

You stopped using Steam in 11' because in 2013 Valve was going to remove EAX and D3D from Half Life?
Are you a time traveler?

 

[[REDACTED]]

I have a 2004 HP laptop

I'm sorry but I just have to say this - a 2004 HP laptop? That's an absolute damage sponge, man. I hope it doesn't have a huge armour class, otherwise it would take hours to take down.

I'm here all week, folks!

*Wipes away a tear*

That was... beautiful. Thank you.

 

[Poetic Nova]

Am I glad i found the Sierra/Valve Anthology for a couple of euro's (no steam required). This is one of the reason's why I don't use Steam since '11.

You stopped using Steam in 11' because in 2013 Valve was going to remove EAX and D3D from Half Life?
Are you a time traveler?

I stopped using them due to the mandatory updates and braking HL2 with the engine port. In this case it seals the case of never using Steam anymore, Valve seems to start to loose the focus on developping anyway.

 

[Bad Jim]

I have a 2004 HP laptop and I can perfectly play Half-Life 1 in OGL at 60 fps in 1280x800.

What was the complaint again?.

That some people have buggy OpenGL drivers that deliver terrible frame rates even on new computers because they are BUGGY. These buggy drivers also show display errors like flickering, tearing, textures not being drawn, z buffer errors etc. Many of these people paid for the game on the understanding that it would work with their DirectX drivers which were not buggy. And now it doesn't.

You savvy??

 

[Kopikatsu]

That's bullshit. I hate Steam's policy of forcing you to update, even if it doesn't benefit you you. Not to mention the stupidity of updating a 15 year old game to take functionality AWAY from it!

Shogun 2's 12GB patch still irritates me. I'm growing increasingly impatient with Steam. The sales and the fact that my friends use it are the only good things about it.

GOG and GMG generally have better sales than Steam, despite giving you a Steam key most of the time. So there's another thing against them.

 

[DarkRyter]

I don't understand what half those words mean.

Acronyms, man.

 

[Connor Lonske]

on topic, i agree with what you've said about frame rates for games, but you don't really need a amazing one for a game like hl1, nor do you need it to not look like shit because it's almost 15 years old and by that determination already looks like shit

Well, "over 10 FPS" should not be considered amazing by any stretch of the word. It'd call that "playable" myself. And I still like how HL looks - I too do LAN parties and we play it, along with Quake 3 and other games. Yes, it's not ultra mega photorealistic but it doesn't have to be, also it looks adequate. I don't see why the attitude of "it doesn't need to look better, since there are other games that look better". That's just a very bizarre thing to say - if something has a defect, should we not mind because something different works better?

well i should of been more clear and said the frame rate for hl1 should be around 30 for it to be good, seeing how it's old software running on new hardware and that's more related to the quality of the gameplay then how it looks.

also you miss took my argument for, as you said "if something has a defect, should we not mind because something different works better" when i mean, "the game is old enough where expecting it too look good graphics wise is kinda silly."

if you're dealing with outdated graphics then why would they mater. also that part of what i was saying was referring to what you said about the game running crappy on software rendering and i assume you were talking about the graphics not the frame rate seeing how you didn't mention the frame rate and i wasn't talking about it beforehand.

(also hl1 does kinda look like shit to me personally but whatever)

also you should do a doom LAN with a modern version of the executable (Zandronum) that has mouse look and updated controls. it'd be killer if you and your friends like old games.

 

[Requia]

your pc can't run hl1 with open GL... does your GPU use shared memory or somethin?

[...]

if your CPU is shit maybe you should be considering getting an entry level GPU for your computer that's a separate card. the price range for this is around 80 to 120 USD and stuff. pretty cheap, all things considered.

look for a Radeon HD 6670 or 7750. both around 100 bucks and worth the money if you just want to play games both old and new at a cheap price

It's a laptop. Seriously, people, the OP is not that long or confusing to read.

anyway if your CPU is super powerful software should run the game fine.

I've always had the game look shit in software rendering. Runs fine, yes, but it's just ugly.

Really? I generally don't have problems with ATI or AMD stuff, I'm running a 4770 right now in my desktop and it's doing really well for a 4 year old card.

It's just this card that has been annoying. It's a 5470 which I obviously didn't do enough research on when I bought the laptop. I actually was looking at several ones and it was down to just picking which video card I'd pick and for some reason I took the 5470 for another one (can't remember the model number but it was a digit off, I think - something like 5770). Only later did I realise it. Still, as I said, mostly annoying not a huge deal breaker, since it plays most of what I want from it.

Anyway, I'll be building a new PC hopefully in a few months time, a proper desktop now, and I think I'll go with nVidia. I've got nothing much against ATI...well, although I do think nVidia are the leaders in top tier stuff, I'm not really after that. The reason I'd probably go with nVidia is that they seem to have better Linux drivers. The current ones by ATI require black candles and sacrifices as part of the installation. OK...you can also do as much good with just a silent prayer to anything you choose - God, other beings, your shoe, or even Thursday and it would do as much good but it just won't convey the proper mood.

As of 8 months ago (when I replaced my hard drive, I have no idea about the actual date of change) ATI drivers install on Ubuntu with no issues, I assume it also works on Debian once you get past the bitching and moaning about non free software. (for the record, anything more complicated than 'aptitude install $name' is needlessly complicated to me, and that works now, though the package name is still impossible to remember flrgx, frlgx, something like that).

 

[gLoveofLove]

There was no option to choose in the poll, but I am in the rare camp of "I still regularly play HL multiplayer but I don't care about this"

 

[Gorden Springel]

Its half life one, time to get a new bloody game if you ask me. Or a new computer, I bet you could buy one that runs half life 2 for like 200 bucks...

 

[DoPo]

As of 8 months ago (when I replaced my hard drive, I have no idea about the actual date of change) ATI drivers install on Ubuntu with no issues, I assume it also works on Debian once you get past the bitching and moaning about non free software. (for the record, anything more complicated than 'aptitude install $name' is needlessly complicated to me, and that works now, though the package name is still impossible to remember flrgx, frlgx, something like that).

It's fglrx and yeah, I tried installing it multiple times both from the repos and downloading the package itself, I even tried several permutations. Well, I managed to break X several times, break the drivers (so it just fell back to the Intel chipset - while I was getting picture, for some reason, cannot do OpenGL and there is no 3D acceleration at all) several other times and I think once or twice nothing happened. I finally concluded that the driver was just incompatible with my card. I saw reports from many other people that it doesn't work for them, too. Apparently, it's quite hit and miss - it either works for your platform or it doesn't.

also you miss took my argument for, as you said "if something has a defect, should we not mind because something different works better" when i mean, "the game is old enough where expecting it too look good graphics wise is kinda silly."

if you're dealing with outdated graphics then why would they mater. also that part of what i was saying was referring to what you said about the game running crappy on software rendering and i assume you were talking about the graphics not the frame rate seeing how you didn't mention the frame rate and i wasn't talking about it beforehand.

No, it just looks way worse than before. I don't expect the game to throw Crysis levels of visual quality at me, but I do want it to not look worse than before.

also you should do a doom LAN with a modern version of the executable (Zandronum) that has mouse look and updated controls. it'd be killer if you and your friends like old games.

I do like old games, but apparently 1998-ish is the lowest they'd go - I tried to suggest Quake 2, which I've legitimately had most fun playing multiplayer (and Q3 was the first game I played in LAN), but they didn't feel like it.

Also, I've played the original Doom 2 in multi in a more modern setting (back in...2002, I think) - it was still a blast, even though you don't use a mouse and all. Good times.