Poll: So windows 8 then...

[Megacherv]

Okay guys, prepare for my rant...AGAIN!

Windows 8's main differences from Windows 7 are:

Slightly different UI changes
A hell of a lot more optimised
Integration with Windows Live accounts (now called Microsoft accounts)
Start Menu is now full screen
A closed Metro environment ON TOP OF the normal PC UI

Windows 8 is not closed off if you use it on a regular PC. Windows RT (the tablet version of Windows 8) is as closed as you would expect a tablet, although developer access is still easy to get hold of.

Feel free to question me on this, I've been using the previews since about February and three of us in our house are using Windows 8 RTM as our main OS

EDIT: Oh yes, and developers don't need to make a lot of their software compatible with Windows 8, at least not Steam. I've been using Steam for months on Win8 and it's only been as fucky as Steam is for me anyway

lol u dnt understand then, windows 8 all devs have to certify their games with microsoft which isnt what they want and people dnt want tht metro it gets in the way and isnt useful i for one wont get windows 8 ill concider dual booting with 7 n ubuntu IF i have to for games but definatly not if 7 is supported n ill uninstall windows all together if linux is supported by the big publishers

Nope.avi

The 'certification' is the same that's been around for years, it's simply asking if you can put 'Made for Windows' on the box. It's been around since 1995. You do not require certification to release your program for Windows on the desktop. As far as I know the only thing that you need to certify is a driver.

Start Menu is now full screen

Do not want.

It's actually much better than the Win7 start menu, as you can just pin what you use onto it, rather than have everything, and you can organise them all into separate categories as well. For me switch isn't that much of an issue as I use the taskbar for launching stuff.

A closed Metro environment ON TOP OF the normal PC UI

Uhh, from my experience its the other way around. You can run Desktop as an App for Metro, but Metro is where its based, do correct me if I'm wrong.

Nope, you can click on a tile in the start menu to go to the desktop, but it is not an 'app'. Once you go to the desktop, it's like using Windows 7. By default you boot into the start menu, but the desktop is running underneath that.

its a piece of crap metro its clunky and not as good as 7 desktop

Metro is not a desktop, it is the start menu and full-screen apps. The desktop is the desktop.

Also, it is not clunky in the slightest. The Start menu is fluid and the OS is more optimised than Windows 7. If you have proof otherwise feel fuckin' free, but I'm using a Windows 8 PC to type this, and out of the 3 years of using this, having Vista, Win7 and Win8's various previews on prior to installing the RTM, this is the best that it's ever run.

 

[Megacherv]

It's actually much better than the Win7 start menu, as you can just pin what you use onto it, rather than have everything, and you can organise them all into separate categories as well. For me switch isn't that much of an issue as I use the taskbar for launching stuff.

Sounds like what my Desktop is used for, with my Start menu being used for all my programs so that I can get to them easily, rather than going through my Computer and such. Organizing into separate categories I've always done on my Desktop anyway, either 'unofficially' by placing the icons in certain parts of the screen dependent on their program type, or 'officially' by using free programs like Fences.

As for Metro, so long as it boots to it, I'm not going to like it. Its easier just to login and get to my desktop instantly with Windows 7 then it is to log in, find the Desktop button - which is annoying thanks to how similar all the buttons look, and then go to desktop. It adds in an unnecessary extra step because MS seems to like touchscreen stuff now. Fine, for your phone OS. Not on my desktop.

You can get software for Windows 8 that gets you straight into the desktop when you boot. You can also disable the hot corners for the mouse and even bring the old Start Menu back.

I'm a heavy multi-tasker, always working with two screens (unfortunately only HD screens, not full HD). Ever since i got Windows 7, i did a few changes to the way i Windows looks and how i work with it and start software.

First of all, i moved my taskbar to the left side of the screen. On widescreens, you have limited horizontal space, so why people insist on having the taskbar in the bottom is beyond me. With the new Windows 7 approach of grouping icons together, moving it to the left side of the screen is one of the things that really has optimized my use of screen space:
Picture 1 [http://i46.tinypic.com/2ptumx0.png]

Another thing i did was incorporate two small menus (apps and games) into the taskbar as you can see at the left side of the screen. The reason for this is that as a multi-tasker, launching programs from the desktop sucks because it requires you to minimize running Windows (and i can sometimes have a LOT of Windows open) while the Taskbar is always visible. The alternative is to use the start menu, but it's cluttered with different stuff, and keeping my own menus down there keeps things more organized.
Picture 2 [http://i47.tinypic.com/whxzkn.png]

Finally, i use a software called Deskpot, which is a multiple-desktop software (they've been around for years) and also has a functionality that allows it to emulate Mission Control in OS X for quickly switching between windows. In fact, in Picture 1 above, i have iTunes running, but you can't see it because it's on the second desktop. The software supports dragging Windows between desktops, which is a huge feature that many desktop-switching softwares lack, and the Mission Control emulation is just awesome.
Picture 3 [http://i48.tinypic.com/6z4jh5.png]
Picture 4 [http://i47.tinypic.com/20jkebs.png]

On the subject of Windows 8, too many people view it as something bad. It is drastically faster than Windows 7, and the new Start Menu isn't bad at all once you learn to use it. All you need to do is apply some tweaks. I'll personally be disabling the Hot Corners, and using keyboard shortcuts instead for their functionality. Whether or not I'll bring back the old start menu (and use it side-by-side with the new start menu) i haven't decided on yet.

Windows 8 really isn't that bad people. It just requires you to get used to a few things, and the things you still don't like can generally be disabled. Windows 8 is still a big leap forward. It's not another shitty Vista.

I love you man, someone who's actually been using it

 

[Mikael Guldborg Rask Andersen]

Okay guys, prepare for my rant...AGAIN!

Windows 8's main differences from Windows 7 are:

Slightly different UI changes
A hell of a lot more optimised
Integration with Windows Live accounts (now called Microsoft accounts)
Start Menu is now full screen
A closed Metro environment ON TOP OF the normal PC UI

Windows 8 is not closed off if you use it on a regular PC. Windows RT (the tablet version of Windows 8) is as closed as you would expect a tablet, although developer access is still easy to get hold of.

Feel free to question me on this, I've been using the previews since about February and three of us in our house are using Windows 8 RTM as our main OS

EDIT: Oh yes, and developers don't need to make a lot of their software compatible with Windows 8, at least not Steam. I've been using Steam for months on Win8 and it's only been as fucky as Steam is for me anyway

lol u dnt understand then, windows 8 all devs have to certify their games with microsoft which isnt what they want and people dnt want tht metro it gets in the way and isnt useful i for one wont get windows 8 ill concider dual booting with 7 n ubuntu IF i have to for games but definatly not if 7 is supported n ill uninstall windows all together if linux is supported by the big publishers

Nope.avi

The 'certification' is the same that's been around for years, it's simply asking if you can put 'Made for Windows' on the box. It's been around since 1995. You do not require certification to release your program for Windows on the desktop. As far as I know the only thing that you need to certify is a driver.

Start Menu is now full screen

Do not want.

It's actually much better than the Win7 start menu, as you can just pin what you use onto it, rather than have everything, and you can organise them all into separate categories as well. For me switch isn't that much of an issue as I use the taskbar for launching stuff.

A closed Metro environment ON TOP OF the normal PC UI

Uhh, from my experience its the other way around. You can run Desktop as an App for Metro, but Metro is where its based, do correct me if I'm wrong.

Nope, you can click on a tile in the start menu to go to the desktop, but it is not an 'app'. Once you go to the desktop, it's like using Windows 7. By default you boot into the start menu, but the desktop is running underneath that.

its a piece of crap metro its clunky and not as good as 7 desktop

Metro is not a desktop, it is the start menu and full-screen apps. The desktop is the desktop.

Also, it is not clunky in the slightest. The Start menu is fluid and the OS is more optimised than Windows 7. If you have proof otherwise feel fuckin' free, but I'm using a Windows 8 PC to type this, and out of the 3 years of using this, having Vista, Win7 and Win8's various previews on prior to installing the RTM, this is the best that it's ever run.

Amen to that! Of all OS I have ever had, Win8 definitely takes the price as the best ever!

Also, I am getting utterly tired of listening to ignorant people who has not even tried it, but apparently already knows that it will be apocalyptically bad!

 

[ZephrC]

Honestly? There is currently no OS capable of taking any significant portion of the gaming market away from Microsoft.

MacOS doesn't work because most of the complaints about Win8 are basically that it's becoming more like MacOS. Anyone who doesn't like that obviously isn't going to go with Apple's computers.

Linux has different problems. Linux is an absolutely terrible operating system for a group of people that I've taken to referring to as intermediate computer users. People who can't program or anything, but still know the difference between a video card and a RAM chip. People who know the Windows Control Panel like the back of their hand. People who've become knowledgeable about computers because they see a box they don't know the purpose of and click it to see what happens. Linux doesn't work for these people because it is stupidly easy to very thoroughly break if you go around clicking advanced options without understanding what they do. And there is a lot of overlap between these intermediate computer users and PC gamers.

Frankly, what's actually going to happen is that most games are going to continue to be made for Windows 7 until Windows 9 comes out and fixes most of the things people hate about 8. It's happened many times before, and there's no real reason to think this time will be any different.

 

[Entitled]

Windows becoming more locked down, is like Google or Facebook increasing user tracking: Even if you don't have anything to hide, and they swear they are not using it for evil, we would still complain about it out of principle, because no monopoly should have that kind of power over us.

It's the same deal with a locked down market. The consoles are already closed enough, Windows was always the more open alternative. Even if they aren't planning to become entirely like a console right now, it's still a threatening move, to even remind us that they very well could be.

It would be very wise to prepare for a migration to Linux, just in case a few years from now, they decide that they don't need to allow for any installations outside of the Windows store-approved content after all.

 

[Playful Pony]

Well for a few years at least we'll still be able to play most new games on Win 7 I suspect. Was like that with XP anyway. Hopefully by the time Win 7 becomes obsolete there is a better alternative around!

 

[kasperbbs]

Reading some of the posts gave me a headache.. No, devs wont abandon windows because of the metro ui which i only use to get to the desktop because its ****** optional. I have been using it since RTM was released and it's pretty damn good so far. If you have never tried it then please stop making shit up.

 

[Entitled]

Well honestly how many big games even come out exclusively for PC or with PC in mind first? If things really do stay as bad as they seem then I think maybe the big name devs might just not work on PC ports anymore, and smaller publishers and developers would just move to Linux.

Windows 8 is not a threat to "big games".

The whole issue with Windows 8 is the threat of it being too locked, and as you just said, big games are already selling themselves on the even more locked consoles. Nothing would stop Creative Assembly from licensing Total War: Rome 2, or EA from licensing Sims 4, on a Windows Store.


It is innovation and freedom that would suffer, the indies, the modders, the hackers, the pirates, and generally the kind of attitude that you can do whatever the hell you want with your PC. That when a publisher adds ridiculous DRM, you can just cut that shit out like a cancerous tumor from a body. That when they release botched ports, we can just fix them in a matter of minutes. That we can make our own unlicensed My Little Pony fighter games, or try to invent "the next minecraft", or we can download Japanese Visual Novels even with the occasional porn scenes in them.

In other words, all the really meaningful stuff.

 

[Spartan212]

What I've gathered from this thread is that the people who are actually using Win8 like it, and people who have only heard things hate it already.

Notch, Gabe, Blizz, etc are blowing hot air (just like the ps3 remarks). Nobody is going to switch to Linux just because Valve has an axe to grind with Microsoft. After Win8 has been out for a month, these conversations will be moot

 

[Moderated]

This is not a good poll, as there should be three options for windows
Windows 7, Windows 8, and both.
Anyway, Windows 8 is shit, so I'm waiting for 9.

 

[Kae]

Well considering that the devs that don't like it don't like it because it's not an open platform, it would seem the most logical option would be Linux since that's going to be THE open platform, though I'm guessing most big companies will stick to Windows and possibly expand to Mac, since they are more popular.

imo linux is perfect IF it had the game support id never use windows if linux had steam support which i think its getting and most other games brilliant os linux is

Well, yeah sure, but I was talking about popularity, both Mac and Windows are considerably more popular than Linux, so from a marketing standpoint it doesn't make much sense to abandon these platforms, I'm not going to be surprised if Linux starts getting some exclusive games every now and then, or if making a Linux version of a game becomes more popular, but I find it doubtful that most big companies will move to the least popular platform, regardless of quality.
[sub]Also that's some serious quoting right there.[/sub]

 

[TheLazyGeek]

I always thought the issue with Win8 was not the actual UI or metro bit, but rather that it's a more closed-off OS that wouldn't allow for good ol' haberdashery and whatnots. You know, modding and indie developing...

[small]and secret porn folders...[/small]

I've not kept up with Win8 development so I'm really out of the loop with this one so feel free to correct me if I'm wrong or mislead

 

[Blood Brain Barrier]

Poll needs an option for "develop for multiple platforms"

I expect most of the visual changes will be customisable. There's no way MS aren't going to put an option to replace the fullscreen tablet-style start menu with the classic taskbar and start menu.

Classic taskbar and start menu have been gone for a long time. You could get rid of the newer, screwier taskbars and start menus and switch back to classic style in Windows XP and maybe Vista, but sadly not 7.

Not sure what you mean. The "click on a button on the lower left and bring up a sequential menu" has existed since Win 95 and all the way to 7.

 

[thesilentman]

Guys, am I really the only one who sees it?

Most game developers put up with certification-based closed platforms from Sony, Microsoft, Nintendo and Valve. They would no problem with Windows 8 if it did this. Certification only comes from selling it on the Windows Store, where a game can get full support, and hopefully lose some of that "take an hour to get the fucking thing to work" bullshit we used to put up with.

You can still install games as normal on it that haven't been certified. You can still run those free game downloads, you can still run Steam.

Gabe Newell only calls Windows 8 a disaster because it cuts in on his profits, because now a developer can pay someone other than him to make a game on the PC with a chance of selling. Someone cutting in on his territory. Doesn't anyone see it?

Newell: "Hey Microsoft! Stop putting DRM and Closed Platforms systems on the PC! That's MY job!"

I agree completely except the Windows Store bit. That's only for Metro apps.

Linux has different problems. Linux is an absolutely terrible operating system for a group of people that I've taken to referring to as intermediate computer users. People who can't program or anything, but still know the difference between a video card and a RAM chip. People who know the Windows Control Panel like the back of their hand. People who've become knowledgeable about computers because they see a box they don't know the purpose of and click it to see what happens. Linux doesn't work for these people because it is stupidly easy to very thoroughly break if you go around clicking advanced options without understanding what they do. And there is a lot of overlap between these intermediate computer users and PC gamers.

Frankly, what's actually going to happen is that most games are going to continue to be made for Windows 7 until Windows 9 comes out and fixes most of the things people hate about 8. It's happened many times before, and there's no real reason to think this time will be any different.

I'm a PC gamer. I'm one of those intermediate computer users. And yet, how the hell is it possible that my PC hasn't bricked yet? Why? Try openSUSE or Ubuntu and then come back and tell me that Linux is not that great for us "intermediate computer users." It's also stupidly easy to get help in those distros. Just run terminal and type

info <command or thing you don't know>

. That's it. So at least try a Linux distro now and see if it is what you're saying. PC gamers won't care anyway, because if the games go to Ubuntu, so will the gamers. PC gamers will adapt to Ubuntu/openSUSE/Debian/Fedora if the games go there.

OT- Windows 8 is 7 with a reskin and some weird design choices. I've said this for the umpteenth time and it really is laughable at how many people believe that Windows 8 will start closing the PC games industry. (Notch, I'm looking at you.)

EDIT- One of the distros was Arch and Gentoo, also known as being user unfriendly. I changed it to Debian and Fedora to prove my point. Mint is also baby Ubuntu, so that got nixed to openSUSE instead.

 

[Ed130 The Vanguard]

Poll needs an option for "develop for multiple platforms"

I expect most of the visual changes will be customisable. There's no way MS aren't going to put an option to replace the fullscreen tablet-style start menu with the classic taskbar and start menu.

Classic taskbar and start menu have been gone for a long time. You could get rid of the newer, screwier taskbars and start menus and switch back to classic style in Windows XP and maybe Vista, but sadly not 7.

Not sure what you mean. The "click on a button on the lower left and bring up a sequential menu" has existed since Win 95 and all the way to 7.

I like the new start menu, honestly. There's a lot of things I love about Windows and think Microsoft should never drop, but the visual design of the Star Menu was never one of them. I think the whole issue with the start menu and the hatred of the tablet-style design is just people looking for something to complain about.

Don't forget the whole "closed OS" and being a ***** to code for, which were the main reasons why the company I work for isn't 'upgrading' to Windows 8.

 

[orangeapples]

Windows 8 should have been Windows 7 SP2 since it is pretty much the same thing except the startup screen.

Windows 8 certification does not mean that games that are not certified by MS will not work, just that Windows 8 certified games are guaranteed to work.

 

[MeChaNiZ3D]

Well I'd love if they all ditched Windows but I don't think most of them have that privilege. They'll stick with it.

 

[deadish]

Nothing will happen. Dev will just ignore the certification thing - which I assume is optional. If MS's pushes it, you can expect a possible legal backlash and a second anti-trust lawsuit against them.

Though I doubt microsoft will even care, windows 8 is going to put a dent, albeit small dent, in their revenue. Microsoft is like Blizzard: they think they know best and refuse to listen to their fans, however come launch day they'll be begging for forgiveness.

LOL. They have a monopoly, they aren't going to beg anyone. They can release a complete turd and still make millions. The only thing they have to fear is the DoJ breathing down their neck if they piss off too many people.

 

[Ed130 The Vanguard]

-snip-

Don't forget the whole "closed OS" and being a ***** to code for, which were the main reasons why the company I work for isn't 'upgrading' to Windows 8.

I don't know about code, since I'm not a programmer, but the fact remains it isn't a closed OS. It's the same OS it's always been, with a closed feature added for the sake of cross platform.

Hence the quotation marks.

While not a completely closed OS Microsoft appears to be steering in that direction, a notion enforced by their past actions. (search for Microsoft anti-trust to see why)

Whether or not this is Microsoft's plan is up for debate.

 

[Mikael Guldborg Rask Andersen]

Poll needs an option for "develop for multiple platforms"

I expect most of the visual changes will be customisable. There's no way MS aren't going to put an option to replace the fullscreen tablet-style start menu with the classic taskbar and start menu.

Classic taskbar and start menu have been gone for a long time. You could get rid of the newer, screwier taskbars and start menus and switch back to classic style in Windows XP and maybe Vista, but sadly not 7.

Not sure what you mean. The "click on a button on the lower left and bring up a sequential menu" has existed since Win 95 and all the way to 7.

I like the new start menu, honestly. There's a lot of things I love about Windows and think Microsoft should never drop, but the visual design of the Star Menu was never one of them. I think the whole issue with the start menu and the hatred of the tablet-style design is just people looking for something to complain about.

Don't forget the whole "closed OS" and being a ***** to code for, which were the main reasons why the company I work for isn't 'upgrading' to Windows 8.

As someone who has actually developed for Windows RT (which is what I assume you are referring to, when you say "closed OS"), I have only one thing to say: wat.

Of all these sandbox operating systems (Android, iOS, etc.) WindowsRT far exceeds all of them in how easy (and how well defined) it is to program for. MS is catering to the developers like no other company by introducing the most AWESOMEST (yes, that's a word in my dictionary) features to what is already the most feature rich language (C#), which is what you should use when you program for WinRT (or the new .NET for that matter).