Poll: *Spoilers* Game of Thrones RAGE and discussion *Spoilers*
- Thread starter xplay3r
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Ned as a person is one of the least important characters in the series. However, as a political figure, he is central to all the backstabbing, bitchiness, betrayal and good stuff that will happen in the rest of the series. You see how Robert has died, and now his Hand is dead?
ASoIaF is not a happy series. Barely a chapter goes by without a rape, murder or power play. Good guys die, bad guys get rewarded, sometimes it's the other way. George R.R. Martin isn't one for the whole "walk into the sunset holding hands" type of ending, and this story is not a happy one. It is EXTREMELY interesting however, a masterpiece of character relationships and moral grey areas, and explores many themes we can relate to today. Simply, don't go expecting the happy outcome!
Stick with it. The series is one of the best I've ever read, and the show portrays it fantastically.
ASoIaF is not a happy series. Barely a chapter goes by without a rape, murder or power play. Good guys die, bad guys get rewarded, sometimes it's the other way. George R.R. Martin isn't one for the whole "walk into the sunset holding hands" type of ending, and this story is not a happy one. It is EXTREMELY interesting however, a masterpiece of character relationships and moral grey areas, and explores many themes we can relate to today. Simply, don't go expecting the happy outcome!
Stick with it. The series is one of the best I've ever read, and the show portrays it fantastically.
I'd say that they are, given that the series misses so much when it comes to detail, and sometimes skips over things that might even become important later on (depending on where and how they deviate from the books however).Merkavar said:
@OT: I think part of the problem is that while the books and the way they are structured made it fairly clear there is no single one protagonist, the series do sort of set up Ned as one. The books had chapters told very much from the point of view of his children, and those chapters translated to the series always seemed to revolve around Ned somehow. However, if they want to stick to the story as told in the books there is no way to write around Ned's death, since that, more than King Robert's death, is what sets things in motion.
That said, it is one the (very few) complaints I have about the series. The books are very clear in the fact that there is no true protagonist or antagonist, they are all just humans with their own opinions, morals, goals and desires. In the series the shades of grey seem to lean more towards either black or white. I'm also still somewhat sad at the loss of detail. Of course, I realise that a tv-series needs to work within time constraints far more, and that money is at the root of that problem, but would adding a few more touches of detail in every single episode and making the entire season one or two episodes longer have been that much of a stretch? An example of what I mean there; the only one of Robb's bannermen to have been given a name is Greatjon Umber, and even he is barely given character. Where does that leave some of the more important side characters, like for example Roose Bolton (who does later on gain in importance too)?
What I really liked about the series, especially after having seen it all, is the casting. There were people cast as characters that I had my doubts about, like Emilia Clarke as Daenerys, but in the end they proved to be utterly right for the part. The musical score doesn't exactly seem extensive just yet, but what is there is easy on the ears. I love the books, and will continue following the series, because it is a good and fairly faithful translation.
I think you've kind of pinpointed my problem, its not so much that he dies, its just that the show set him up so much as the main protagonist. it wasn't very clear how "main" the other "good" characters were but the fact that he was important was very clear and that's why i had such a problem with it, but thanks to this thread i am going to continue watching. I just have to remember that everyone is just as important as everyone else is, and everyone is just as likely to snuff it!TyrunnAlberyn said:
Like i've said before I LOVE shows/movies/books where there is no happy ending, where no one is safe and most of my favorite movies are movies where good is not triumphant. I just felt they put to much emphasis on Neds character making him seem like he was the main protaganist carrying the plot then axing him, I didn't see why I should care to watch more, but i'm going to now thanks to everyone in this threadIcyEvils said:
I <3 the escapist!
"That man is a two-legged spoiler!"DracoSuave said:
lol did you watch the youtube video in the original post? I think you'd get a kick out of it.
As a Person who has read the first two and a half books I can assure you the loss of Ned is sad, but well worth it.xplay3r said:
Personally my two favorite characters are Arya and Tyrion. Jon's story also gets quite interesting.
All in all I think you feel Ned was the main character because that's what the author wanted you to think, so that you would get just the reaction you did.
Also let's think about what this means for the series:
"No, one is safe, anyone can die."
I know Lost tried the same, but Lost failed on one point, they weren't willing to kill the "cash cows", but Game of Thrones did. (Well A song of Ice and Fire did)
The point is unless you have read the books you have no idea who is safe, and that makes for a very good reason to keep watching I think.
What I dislike about the show is the lack of the Dire Wolves in important Scenes, and How they cut away from the combat way to soon. I understand its costly to make big battles, but I would still have liked to see how Robb ravaged the Lanisters in the Whispering Woods.
PS: To those that don't know, the books are structured with the point of view of each character per Chapter, and Each chapter is named using that Characters name. Which makes it much easier to see who the author thinks are important characters in the book.
Yeah the Dire Wolves felt important, but I only seen them a handful of times, granted the times I did see them they kicked ass.Aurgelmir said:
Also Tyrion was really cool in the show, Peter Dinklage was a great choice, he really brought respect and intelligence to the character, while still kind of having a self deprecating attitude.
I'm probably going to go read the books now. This thread really change my feelings about the series and made me think about picking up the books, though I kinda don't want to because I don't want to ruin the twists in the show....hmm... I'm not sure if I will or not now that I think about it....I might idk.
Read the Books, its well worth it. I started reading Game of Thrones after I started watching the show, and I caught up when it was about 4 episodes left, and was ahead after episode 7. The books are so good that it doesn't feel like you spoil the show.xplay3r said:
I didn't read the books, but I thought that the killing of Ned made the war seem much more set in stone. Yes, Ned was probably the best character in the show, but they can't be scared of killing him of--especially if the books say that he died.
Also, the death of Drogo was actually worse to me than Ned's, but it's worth it. Everything builds up, and the story goes on, but with much more intensity.
I honestly hope to see every Lannister die.
I think I'll start reading the books after I finish with the one I'm currently reading.
Also, the death of Drogo was actually worse to me than Ned's, but it's worth it. Everything builds up, and the story goes on, but with much more intensity.
I honestly hope to see every Lannister die.
I think I'll start reading the books after I finish with the one I'm currently reading.
I was afraid that they wouldn't kill ned - that the producers or the network would chicken out.
And for me, that would have ruined the show.
What makes me a fan of the books so much is that Martin doesn't pull his punches, he tries to keep things as authentic as possible.
What I like to say when I describe the books is that in a typical fantasy, the peasant wanders into the throne room, insults the king, woos the princess and rides off into the sunset a hero. In Martin's tale, the peasant wanders into the throne room, insults the king, and is executed for his crimes.
There is a level of threat that every show has - not the danger the characters are put in by the villains, but the danger the characters are put in by the show's writers. When Picard, Worf, Data and Ensign Bob beam down to the planet of the blob monster, you know that no matter how scary the monsters are, anyone whose name is in the opening credits will never die.
Game of thrones keeps a much higher level of threat, because you know that anything can happen to anyone (except that it's already plotted out in the books, but for people who have never read the books)
They even set up the scene the way it normally goes in a fantasy show - Eddard gets dragged to the square to be executed, and you expect Sansa to give a stirring speech about mercy that saves his life. You expect Arya, who has done nothing but learn to use a sword this entire season, to spring to the rescue and help him escape. But this is A Song of Ice and Fire, where none of that trite, hackneyed Deus Ex Machina swoops in to save the day. The traitor gets his head cut off. That's what happens in 99.9% of cases, and just because he's the hero doesn't make the world bend around him.
That scene is why these books are one of the best fantasy series ever written.
And for me, that would have ruined the show.
What makes me a fan of the books so much is that Martin doesn't pull his punches, he tries to keep things as authentic as possible.
What I like to say when I describe the books is that in a typical fantasy, the peasant wanders into the throne room, insults the king, woos the princess and rides off into the sunset a hero. In Martin's tale, the peasant wanders into the throne room, insults the king, and is executed for his crimes.
There is a level of threat that every show has - not the danger the characters are put in by the villains, but the danger the characters are put in by the show's writers. When Picard, Worf, Data and Ensign Bob beam down to the planet of the blob monster, you know that no matter how scary the monsters are, anyone whose name is in the opening credits will never die.
Game of thrones keeps a much higher level of threat, because you know that anything can happen to anyone (except that it's already plotted out in the books, but for people who have never read the books)
They even set up the scene the way it normally goes in a fantasy show - Eddard gets dragged to the square to be executed, and you expect Sansa to give a stirring speech about mercy that saves his life. You expect Arya, who has done nothing but learn to use a sword this entire season, to spring to the rescue and help him escape. But this is A Song of Ice and Fire, where none of that trite, hackneyed Deus Ex Machina swoops in to save the day. The traitor gets his head cut off. That's what happens in 99.9% of cases, and just because he's the hero doesn't make the world bend around him.
That scene is why these books are one of the best fantasy series ever written.
I completely agree now that i've had more time to deal with it and think it over, I see that it was a necessity, and I am excited to see its out come, also if I was reading the books, I believe I wouldn't have found it so jarring, well maybe still as jarring but I would've accepted it quicker. I just felt that we didn't have enough time with him, I would've been fine had they popped him off like mid second season or even earlie second season, but I just felt like we saw how great of a person he was, but didn't get enough time to see it do anyhting.j-e-f-f-e-r-s said:
I personally hate most media that ends with happy sunsets and smiles, I lOVED No Country for Old Men, one of my favorite movies is Donnie Darko, and I prefer the remake of True Grit to the original. I just didn't see how they could continue the story, because they hadn't made it so clear (to me at least) that he wasn't the ONLY main character.
Like I said I'm fine with them killing him, I understand the need for it, I just felt, at first, that it wasn't the correct time (not bad timing in story, just in the progress of the show)
Also thank you for the analysis of the story, it really helped me understand (even more so then how much I had come to terms to, and how much this thread hepled me with so far) what they were going for, how they were making it play out. That was a really good analysis. Thank you!
Yeah I love movies and shows where no one is safe. Have you read any of the Walking Dead comics? they have the same "No one is safe" thing going on, and they fucking mean it! Yet I still LOVE the comic.AGrey said:
Yeah I am about 100 dollars in debt to library right now (never let other people get books out on your own card) but I hope to pay it off soon and, thanks to this thread, when I do the first thing I'm getting is the first book in the seriesAurgelmir said:
....and simon peggs new book nerd-do-well
....and probably a few TBP comics
....and the new alex rider book
....and the new Darren Shan book
....and some H.P. Lovecraft....
....you did ask for a library list right?