It's also Worth to note that the Dominion's weapons pretty much bypassed most Federation shields and the Defiant could still take a beating and give as good as it got in most battles. But she's a tough little ship.
Poll: Star Trek: Which Enterprise is Your Favorite?
- Thread starter Neverhoodian
- Start date
Though the valiant class is clearly the pound-for-pound BAMF of Starfleet designs they never made one called "Enterprise" so that's out for me.
I've got to vote for the post-refit constitution Enterprise of The Motion Picture & Khan. It's the same ship I watched as a kid in the original series (the IP that made me a sci-fi geek) but more capable and a lot better looking. The first time I saw that big blue deflector dish and the sexy tapered nacelle struts I knew the super-connie was the spaceship for me.
<3
The sovereign class Enterprise E is the biggest, baddest & one of the best and most practical-looking Enterprises. Since the connies seem to be out of the running I'm happy to see it leading the poll - just please don't let the crapsack galaxy class win.
Seriously Escapist; if the galaxy class ships looked any wimpier they'd be mistaken for Easter bonnets.
I've got to vote for the post-refit constitution Enterprise of The Motion Picture & Khan. It's the same ship I watched as a kid in the original series (the IP that made me a sci-fi geek) but more capable and a lot better looking. The first time I saw that big blue deflector dish and the sexy tapered nacelle struts I knew the super-connie was the spaceship for me.
<3
The sovereign class Enterprise E is the biggest, baddest & one of the best and most practical-looking Enterprises. Since the connies seem to be out of the running I'm happy to see it leading the poll - just please don't let the crapsack galaxy class win.
Seriously Escapist; if the galaxy class ships looked any wimpier they'd be mistaken for Easter bonnets.
I'm pretty sure it's because the Jem'Hadar like to attack in very large groups, whilst the Borg tend to only send a singular cube to ruin shit (let's just ignore what Voyager did to the Borg). Given the Defiant's design - read: 'a pair of big guns strapped to an engine' - it always felt like something designed for punching a giant hole in something large, as opposed to dealing with a number of smaller, more maneuverable ships.Silverbeard said:
If anything, it's more impressive that Ben 'Motherfucking' Sisko manages to blow up so god damn many Jem'Hadar given he's fighting them in a ship unsuited to countering their preferred tactics. But this is the Sisko we're talking about, he straight up kills some Jem'Hadar with his bare hands, using the wrong ship for the job is nothing to him.
I'm always amused when people try to defend the Defiant's design, which is just... terrible. It's really a bad ship that surfs 100% on plot armor and through it's relationship with the most Gary Sue character in Star Trek, Sisko.Wrex Brogan said:
Anyway, specifically, the Defiant actually does get to go up against a Borg cube. It gets smeared because the wrong black guy is captaining it at the moment.
It's really not that impressive, because it never earns a kill. Everything the Defiant kills, it does so in seconds, usually with the clever setup of Sisko saying something badass that makes the Jemhadar drop whatever they're doing so they can wave their fat, unshielded ass at the Defiant.
EDIT: I take that back. The Defiant earns exactly one kill, when it tag teams the Jemhadar with the Klingons, with them acting as bait. And even that felt like a huge damn stretch.
I think the destruction of the Enterprise D is more a testament to just how bad some of the writing for ST Generations was rather than the vulnerability of the Galaxy class ships. But yeah, the Galaxy class ships were really unfit for war.Zontar said:
Hey now, you're thinking I'm defending the Defiant (aren't it's weapons only foward-facing or something? In Space? Also the whole 'we had a lot of problems getting the thing to stop shaking itself apart'), I'm not. It's just it was clearly designed for a very specific purpose (punching big holes in Borg Cubes), which puts it at a disadvantage to the Jem'hadar, who use a completely different type of tactics to the Borg. It's a Shotgun when it needs to be a Marksman Rifle, hence why the Jem'Hadar kick it's ass half the time, and the whole 'shake itself apart' thing means it wasn't the best designed Shotgun around (Hell I'm pretty sure it's a prototype they just slapped some numbers on and said 'it'll do').AccursedTheory said:
And look, I won't talk about First Contact if you won't. There's a lot of problems with that movie, and given Worf's strategy when his ship was damaged was 'RAM THE FUCKER', appropriate handling of the Defiant is one of them.
[sub]and it's off topic, but... c'mon, what is with people throwing the 'Gary Stu/Mary Sue' label around these days? It's like 'oh hey, this character is moderately competent and well written, he's gotta be a Gary Stu!' I mean, c'mon, Mary Sue/Gary Stu is a very specific type of writing criticism, it's not something so easily thrown around, it's actually only really applicable to a very narrow band of characters! /endwritingrant[/sub]
This was a tough one because we all know the Enterprise-E is a damn fine piece of work, and one I appreciate far more than the D, nostalgia be damned. I even really love the Kelvin-Timeline version, in no small part because it's engineering decks actually look like engineering decks, not just a room with a couple more monitors then usual.
But when it comes down to it I've got to give it to the good old NX-01. Yes it's basically just an Akira flipped upside-down, but the Akira's are woefully under utilized so this starts to make up for it. It's small, cramped, and made for function because they couldn't build for comfort yet. It's got squeaking in the deck plating, needs it's chief engineer to keep it flying and not just to force the system do things it was never designed to do, and can only manage Warp 5 anyways.
And when it launched it was the most impressive damn thing the human race had ever built. It was the literal first of it's kind, made for a genuinely unknown frontier. It served for ten years before being decommissioned, and that's after it took a beating that would make the 'tough little' Defiant shiver and kept right on going.
It broke records, made history, and demonstrated just what humanity was capable of in a time when there was more to prove then ever. And while we're talking records, lets not forget that it was over two years into its mission before there were any casualties among the crew and let's be honest, that's gotta be a number Star Fleet's never been able to beat.
In no small way, we quite literally have it to thank for there even being a Star Fleet at all, or the Federation for that matter.
Plus, now I'm just really wishing we got to see a Galaxy Class try to navigate the Delphic Expanse, cause that would have been funny. Short, but funny.
Since warp drive had become considerably more precise and using fractional warp factors had become more and more common (we seem to start hearing things like 7.5 and the like a lot more often around this point in the timeline), I think they just changed the scale. Effectively, Warp 10 by TNG's count is still as fast as warp technology is capable of, but now there are more numbers leading up to that so you can more accurately state how fast you're going. So when they say 13 it's probably closer to something like what we'd think of as 6.5 or 7 or something.
But the important part is phaser lance. We need more of those. Like all of them. On everything. Garbage scows and all.
But when it comes down to it I've got to give it to the good old NX-01. Yes it's basically just an Akira flipped upside-down, but the Akira's are woefully under utilized so this starts to make up for it. It's small, cramped, and made for function because they couldn't build for comfort yet. It's got squeaking in the deck plating, needs it's chief engineer to keep it flying and not just to force the system do things it was never designed to do, and can only manage Warp 5 anyways.
And when it launched it was the most impressive damn thing the human race had ever built. It was the literal first of it's kind, made for a genuinely unknown frontier. It served for ten years before being decommissioned, and that's after it took a beating that would make the 'tough little' Defiant shiver and kept right on going.
It broke records, made history, and demonstrated just what humanity was capable of in a time when there was more to prove then ever. And while we're talking records, lets not forget that it was over two years into its mission before there were any casualties among the crew and let's be honest, that's gotta be a number Star Fleet's never been able to beat.
In no small way, we quite literally have it to thank for there even being a Star Fleet at all, or the Federation for that matter.
Plus, now I'm just really wishing we got to see a Galaxy Class try to navigate the Delphic Expanse, cause that would have been funny. Short, but funny.
Neverhoodian said:
I don't think the ship's at that point in the timeline were supposed to be transwarp. I was always under the assumption they redefined the warp factors again, like they did in the years between TOS and TNG. Warp 5 for the NX-01 or original NCC-1701 didn't mean the same thing it did for the D.Antari said:
Since warp drive had become considerably more precise and using fractional warp factors had become more and more common (we seem to start hearing things like 7.5 and the like a lot more often around this point in the timeline), I think they just changed the scale. Effectively, Warp 10 by TNG's count is still as fast as warp technology is capable of, but now there are more numbers leading up to that so you can more accurately state how fast you're going. So when they say 13 it's probably closer to something like what we'd think of as 6.5 or 7 or something.
But the important part is phaser lance. We need more of those. Like all of them. On everything. Garbage scows and all.
I'd go for the TOS one.
The TNG one had some bad ideas...don't put kids on it and then don't design the ship to split into two and then not actually use that feature.
Oh, and I'd say Sisko wasn't a Gary Stu, in that he was about as ridiculously incompetent as the Dominion. A competent leader in place and either side could win in a month.
The TNG one had some bad ideas...don't put kids on it and then don't design the ship to split into two and then not actually use that feature.
Oh, and I'd say Sisko wasn't a Gary Stu, in that he was about as ridiculously incompetent as the Dominion. A competent leader in place and either side could win in a month.
I voted for the Enterprise-E, because of both its call-backs to the older designs and the common sense realization that Federation ships needed to be equal parts exploration/combat ships. Seeing it for the first time in Star Trek: First Contact was amazing - and even more when you see how much ass it can kick!
I also like the design of the Excelsior class - seems like it was the spiritual ancestor of the Sovereign-class and is another long-lived workhorse, since IIRC you see them in ST:TNG and they've been upgraded to field the latest advances in weaponry and shield tech.
I also like the design of the Excelsior class - seems like it was the spiritual ancestor of the Sovereign-class and is another long-lived workhorse, since IIRC you see them in ST:TNG and they've been upgraded to field the latest advances in weaponry and shield tech.
I'm not so sure about that. I remember a TNG episode where scientists were warning that ships traveling at faster warp speeds (the exact figures eludes me) were causing damage to subspace or some such technobabble. Turns out they were right, and Starfleet followed up by issuing a "warp speed limit" that was not to be exceeded except during emergencies. Hence the drop back down to lower warp numbers like 5 or 6. This was also before Voyager broke the fabled warp 10 barrier (and turned Janeway and Paris into Space Salamanders, who promptly spawned Space Salamander babies), so Captain Riker casually ordering "warp 13" in "All Good Things" was a real head-turner at the time.Mike Richards said:
Don't think it is a bad design. It's a reasonable all-purpose ship : Faster than D'Deridex, but far slower than Courier ships, enough reach to get anywhere in federation territory, good enough armament to fight any ship of federation enemies already encountered, when it was designed, good enough sensors and laboratories to fullfill research asignments and place for a lot of people not necessary to drive this thing making it a famaly friendly workplace.Thaluikhain said:
I just assume that when it was build, starfleet had more in mind impressing dignitaries and carrying ambassadors around in a prestigious luxus ship instead of wanting a frontline battlecruiser for some future wars. It was never build to fight the Borg, the Dominion or even the Romulans.
The Enterprise i like best is the Enterprise-C.
It's neither fish nor foul, though. Stick a bunch of guns in it so you use it as a warship, stick everyone else on it so you shouldn't.Satinavian said:
OTOH, a similar thing happened with battlecruisers being used as battleships, I could see it being used for things not really in its niche.
NCC-1701-A Refit because the only Star Trek that I enjoy are the first movies (including the Undiscovered Country). There's something majestic, elegant and epic about that design (especially when paired up with the music of Jerry Goldsmith or James Horner).
Although Voyager coined the phrase transwarp in its episodes. Micheal Okuda the designer of the Enterprise-E described transwarp as any warp factor beyond 10 in the Enterprise-E technical manual. Which was a bit confusing as warp factor 10 was described as a barrier point of infinite power requirement. But as you noted in "All Good Things" Admiral Riker requests warp 13 be set while they return to federation space.Mike Richards said: