Poll: Steam, how do you feel about it?

[cainstwin]

Digital distribution is the enemy.
Valve is the enemy.
Therefore Steam is one of the biggest enemies of gaming.

Explain.

You really need someone to? You don't own the game, you are renting it. You can never resell it so if you dislike it you are just screwed. The prices will never go down because shelf space and retailer competition is not a factor. You will be paying $50 for a game 5 years after it's release. Ever notice how prices of download only games (like VC, WiiWare, 360 Arcade) never decrease in price? Know why?

Yeah, lack of competition on the format. Oh wait, there's half a dozen DD services of PC, each competiting with each other. Even if consoles go DD-only, I'd imagine most publishers will reduce the price after a while to squeeze out the last bit of profit. As for the rest of your comments, it all boils down to something that you can argue already happens (e.g. disc breaks, loss of CD key). Resale has been something that's pretty much non-existent for PCs anyway, and if publishers get their way it may turn true for consoles as well.

Ironically, the only format capable of going DD-only at the moment, the PC, is the one least likely to go completely (someone will always print a special-edition disc).

Agree with delusibeta, just wanted to add that where I live its illegal to resale PC games, therfore the inability to resale isn't much of an issue. You can't even have a refund if you've opened the box.

I guess where you live the corporations have a great advantage. Here, it isn't illegal to sell PC games but you can't do it anyway thanks to DRM schemes and you also can't return it if you opened it unless you are exchanging for the exact same item.

The scam of it is, you can't even view the EULA until you open it. Once opened though, you can't return it if you disagree with the EULA. It's a scam, why can't most people see that?

Here too, the corporations have a huge advantage, I just don't think it's ok.

What part of it is an advantage to them? All they want to do is earn a living. Games can cost millions of pounds to produce and if half the users didnt pay to play then you have to make hundreds of people redundant, just because some people are too pig headed to feel that a corporation has actual people working in it. It isnt about restricting freedom its about making sure people earn what they deserve to get for 2 years of hard work. Its not as if games are overpriced to begin with either, compared to other media like films, in terms of hours you get 3 to 4 times as much entertainment per pound, and in terms of quality of entertainment for those hours i think games beat films in that respect too. Is it too much to ask then that the people who helped make that game a reality get paid for doing so? If we have it ur way there might not even be a games industry as we know it

 

[mjc0961]

I like it okay. I'm not a huge fan of digital distribution or DRM, but Steam manages to do both in a way that doesn't make me want to find everyone who works for Valve and punch them in the face like the kind of crap EA pulls does (what do you mean I have to install malware to play Red Alert 3 or be always connected to the internet to play C&C4 FUCK YOU NO SALE!).

I mean, come on, I can download the games to any PC I want as long as I have my log-in and password. Or just use an external drive and it's even easier. And as far as I know the offline mode works just fine, no problems there yet.

Basically Steam isn't perfect, but it could be a hell of a lot worse too, such as my previous example of EA's lovely stunts or take a look at that Wii Shop Channel where if your Wii breaks, you're usually stuck re-buying everything because Nintendo doesn't give you a solid account (you can link your Wii to Club Nintendo to get surveys but it doesn't work in the same way a Steam, Xbox Live, or Playstation Network account works in keeping track of shit you bought) so you can go to a download history on a new console, and even if you send it in they usually can't get your games back for you.

 

[Vigormortis]

No, you're wrong. Steam is free in the same way television is free. It's there to advertise products, it gets paid for from the games we purchase. Just like television is paid for by us purchasing products from companies who advertise on television...

......

What in the bloody hell are you talking about? Television broadcasts aren't free. You have to pay to get the service. Unless you're one of those people that's pirating your cable/satellite access or someone that has their parents pay for it, TV is NOT free.

I can understand people not liking Steam. I really can. If the games on there (hard to believe as there's so many now) or the DRM aspect of it bother them, then I'm cool with it. Those are all valid complaints. It's part of the reason I've not picked up a copy of StarCraft 2. The front end of that game is just obnoxious. I can't even play single player on my account offline. Yikes.

But the crap I've been seeing in this thread? Come on poeple. Try harder. Otherwise, you're just coming off as a troll.

What do you think will happen if Steam and Valve ever have to shut down?

You will lose your games. I do not believe for one second that the publishers would allow Steam to take the DRM off their games and you shouldn't either.

Um...no you won't. Valve has said as such. Unless a specific company request that they don't, Valve has a bevy of patches and launcher downloads ready at any time for anyone that wants them. Thus, allowing people to play their Steam games without needing Steam. Should Steam shutdown as a service, that is.

 

[JaysonM]

No, you're wrong. Steam is free in the same way television is free. It's there to advertise products, it gets paid for from the games we purchase. Just like television is paid for by us purchasing products from companies who advertise on television...

......

What in the bloody hell are you talking about? Television broadcasts aren't free. You have to pay to get the service. Unless you're one of those people that's pirating your cable/satellite access or someone that has their parents pay for it, TV is NOT free.

I can understand people not liking Steam. I really can. If the games on there (hard to believe as there's so many now) or the DRM aspect of it bother them, then I'm cool with it. Those are all valid complaints. It's part of the reason I've not picked up a copy of StarCraft 2. The front end of that game is just obnoxious. I can't even play single player on my account offline. Yikes.

But the crap I've been seeing in this thread? Come on poeple. Try harder. Otherwise, you're just coming off as a troll.

You obviously didn't get the point of my post and you obviously haven't heard of "free to air" television...

I was telling him it's free in the same way television is free... but even then it's not really free because you are essentially 'paying' by watching advertisements which are purchased by companies. Not all television networks are driven by subscriptions mate...

 

[Yureina]

I love Steam and use it everyday. All of my PC games (which means all the games I play) are linked to Steam in some way, which means I am always on Steam whenever I am at my computer either to play or to just chat with people.

 

[Vigormortis]

You obviously didn't get the point of my post and you obviously haven't heard of "free to air" television...

I was telling him it's free in the same way television is free... but even then it's not really free because you are essentially 'paying' by watching advertisements which are purchased by companies. Not all television networks are driven by subscriptions mate...

True, just those worth watching. In all seriousness, air-wave television is all but dead. The few remaining channels that do broadcast on the airwaves are either public access, PBS, or broadcasting studios that still air their local news casts. Even considering this, your analogy makes no sense. If Steam had very little content and had maybe 1/1000th of features it does, then I could see the comparison. Otherwise, it's a hell of a stretch.

While I will admit that Steam does have ads and promotions for new games or sales, sort of like your TV ads, you can turn off those ads and announcements in options. Pretty sure your TV can't do that.

So, in essence, yes you're right. Valve makes money off promoting, hosting, and selling other companies titles. However, you're analogy is a failure as the Steam ads are not at all the same as advertising on broadcast television as Valve doesn't charge for the adverts.

 

[botobeno]

Aaaaaand what evidence do you have for this point? Being that the hats released that you get from other games (Max's Severed Head, Lumbricus Lid, Ellis' hat, Bill's hat) haven't affected gameplay, and the weapons released the same way (Lugermorph, Big Kill, Frying Pan) have only been replacement models for the weapons and have had no new stats added gives no evidence for this whatsoever.

Just look at the way the game-economy is evolving now. Less content, bugs on release, overpriced DLC's usually with content that should have been in the release, content cut from the 'normal' version so they can sell a deluxe version, few or no demo's,...

The game industry seems to be trying hard to fck itself over and i'm pessimistic about steam not joining in.

 

[joshuaayt]

Steam? I'm willing to go as far as to suggest that it is the best thing the Internet has to offer, at least from the standpoint of a politically apathetic gamer.

A week or so ago, I realised The Sacrifice was coming out for both Left 4 Dead games, and I said to myself, I said, "Well, that's good, Steam'll probably throw a ridiculous sale", and so it did.

Frequent low prices, automatic patching, easy source of Valve news, that impulse-buy approach to video games (Torchlight? Only X dollars! Heck, why not) all add up to one seductive package.

Sure, it's useless if you have severely limited download allowances (We used to be allotted 2 GB a month, which left precious little for schoolwork, let alone 1+ GB games), but for those who can take advantage of it, it is a smoothly functioning fun machine.

I've personally never encountered any bugs, but I can imagine the frustration of losing access to
the games you have purchased. If I could alter one aspect of Steam, I suppose it would be the fact that it can prevent you from playing games at all- surely only online play should have to go through it. Not like it stops pirates, if they are willing to only play single player they've probably downloaded it already.

EDIT: Oh, right, speeds. Well, I'll admit that a big game can take a while to download, but it's usually faster than organising myself to go out and buy it from EB anyway.

 

[SentryGun]

great great program... if you've got at least (and this is the bare minimum) 50gb data a month, other than that its an excellent place to buy games, check out trailers and chat with friends

 

[cainstwin]

Digital distribution is the enemy.
Valve is the enemy.
Therefore Steam is one of the biggest enemies of gaming.

Explain.

You really need someone to? You don't own the game, you are renting it. You can never resell it so if you dislike it you are just screwed. The prices will never go down because shelf space and retailer competition is not a factor. You will be paying $50 for a game 5 years after it's release. Ever notice how prices of download only games (like VC, WiiWare, 360 Arcade) never decrease in price? Know why?

Yeah, lack of competition on the format. Oh wait, there's half a dozen DD services of PC, each competiting with each other. Even if consoles go DD-only, I'd imagine most publishers will reduce the price after a while to squeeze out the last bit of profit. As for the rest of your comments, it all boils down to something that you can argue already happens (e.g. disc breaks, loss of CD key). Resale has been something that's pretty much non-existent for PCs anyway, and if publishers get their way it may turn true for consoles as well.

Ironically, the only format capable of going DD-only at the moment, the PC, is the one least likely to go completely (someone will always print a special-edition disc).

Agree with delusibeta, just wanted to add that where I live its illegal to resale PC games, therfore the inability to resale isn't much of an issue. You can't even have a refund if you've opened the box.

I guess where you live the corporations have a great advantage. Here, it isn't illegal to sell PC games but you can't do it anyway thanks to DRM schemes and you also can't return it if you opened it unless you are exchanging for the exact same item.

The scam of it is, you can't even view the EULA until you open it. Once opened though, you can't return it if you disagree with the EULA. It's a scam, why can't most people see that?

Here too, the corporations have a huge advantage, I just don't think it's ok.

What part of it is an advantage to them? All they want to do is earn a living. Games can cost millions of pounds to produce and if half the users didnt pay to play then you have to make hundreds of people redundant, just because some people are too pig headed to feel that a corporation has actual people working in it. It isnt about restricting freedom its about making sure people earn what they deserve to get for 2 years of hard work. Its not as if games are overpriced to begin with either, compared to other media like films, in terms of hours you get 3 to 4 times as much entertainment per pound, and in terms of quality of entertainment for those hours i think games beat films in that respect too. Is it too much to ask then that the people who helped make that game a reality get paid for doing so? If we have it ur way there might not even be a games industry as we know it

They are only entitled to get paid one time for each copy of the game. That they found ways to circumvent the First Sale Doctrine doesn't make them right.

Do you feel the same about reselling other products?

What you are buying is software, something that to reproduce costs virtually nothing but to make the original costs millions. If you were to sell a second hand car it would have dropped in price due to the ageing of the materials used, and the fact that it is no longer as good as it once was relative to itself. For the company that made it, they made a physical machine that has already paid for itself in terms of materials after 1 sale, so reselling the car does not hurt the company in any way. When you buy software, the actual physical side of it costs so little you aren't really paying for it at all, if there is a physical side to it. If you resell it for half the price you paid for it, then the company has effectively had 2 products bought at half price, and have therefore had a large cut into the profit margin. These companies need to sell an amazingly large number of games just to break even, and every time a game is resold instead of bought new again you are costing them money. I do feel the same way for similar media, cds in particular are bad to resell because you probably still have a usable version of the album saved on the computer, so 1 albums been paid for but 2 now exist. When you buy any software or cd or any form of digital entertainment you aren't paying to own it you are paying for the right to use it, and each household should have to pay for that right to use it. You haven't paid for the right to distribute it, that is still owned by the publisher or whatever.

 

[Kenko]

Steam is a love/hate relationship for me tbh. Its great the same time that its the worst thing ever.

 

[Woodsey]

What do you think will happen if Steam and Valve ever have to shut down?

We will all continue to use steam offline, like it was prepared to do in the case it does fail.

Yes, I know.

I just wanted to see how uninformed he was.

Uninformed?

You don't know what would happen if Steam went under any more than I do. You hope that the DRM (the online check) will be removed but it may not work out that way. It didn't work out that way for people who bought music from Microsoft.

Just out of curiosity, why do you think Microsoft didn't remove the DRM?

We have been told that the patch is ready should Valve fall off of the face of the Earth. It is then perfectly reasonable to assume that Valve (of all people) would put that patch online.

And I have no idea what you're talking about, so I can't comment. Comparing MS and Valve never really works though, and I'm assuming MS never promised to release such a patch beforehand.

 

[Delusibeta]

They are only entitled to get paid one time for each copy of the game. That they found ways to circumvent the First Sale Doctrine doesn't make them right.

The small fact that the First Sale Doctrine does not apply to at least 98% of the world's population may have something to do with it.

 

[Hoplon]

In the steam group I chat with on a regular basis, we have an expression. GSB.

General Steam Bullshit.

This sums up steam nicely, it's a useful tool and by far the best DRM solution I have yet had to put up with but some times it's fucking annoying (like password recovery for instance)

But having used stuff like EA's download manager, the various MMO updaters, Direct to drive and the like, steam wins by like a 100 km in a 100m race, they are by far the least worse solution.

 

[Megacherv]

Aaaaaand what evidence do you have for this point? Being that the hats released that you get from other games (Max's Severed Head, Lumbricus Lid, Ellis' hat, Bill's hat) haven't affected gameplay, and the weapons released the same way (Lugermorph, Big Kill, Frying Pan) have only been replacement models for the weapons and have had no new stats added gives no evidence for this whatsoever.

Just look at the way the game-economy is evolving now. Less content, bugs on release, overpriced DLC's usually with content that should have been in the release, content cut from the 'normal' version so they can sell a deluxe version, few or no demo's,...

The game industry seems to be trying hard to fck itself over and i'm pessimistic about steam not joining in.

Ooooh, right, you were on about the industry in general, I thought you were on about Steam and TF2.

Oh god yeah, it's totally Effed-in-the-A

I highly doubt Valve will do that. With their trac-record, they seem to be doing very well without resorting to this. Remember that for most of the time, Valve don't have any other publishers or distributors whose rules they have to abide by, since they do it all themselves.

The only time they have to listen to a publisher/distributor is on the console releases. vale only charge for DLC on Left 4 Dead because Microsoft says that have to, and EA seem to just let Valve get on with their own thing.

 

[Delusibeta]

They are only entitled to get paid one time for each copy of the game. That they found ways to circumvent the First Sale Doctrine doesn't make them right.

The small fact that the First Sale Doctrine does not apply to at least 98% of the world's population may have something to do with it.

It applies to the US so I would suggest that any game released in the US should respect it. Do you agree?

It's not a question on if I agree, it's a question if the publishers agree, and judging by pretty much all the evidence (DRM, anti-used sale schemes, etc.) it seems that it's a resounding "no" from them.

 

[AdmiralMemo]

I even use Steam to organize my non-Steam games. It's a good jumping-point to playing games.

Not perfect, but it's a good start.

 

[SuperNashwan]

I love steam. Never had any problems with it plus sometimes you pick up bargains - like when I got Fallout 3 GOTY (thats with all DLC) for £6.99 ($11.00). Borderlands I got for £6.99 as well.

 

[Diddy_Mao]

I don't have any major issues with Steam, but there have been some irritations with it.
For example, Dawn of War II. I bought the game in a store, I own a physical copy of the disc. Why should I have to download the steam client in order to verify my purchase. It's just a bigger pain in the ass than it needs to be. Plus it's not the most stable of services, I can't tell you how many times I've tried to play a game I downloaded off of Steam only to tell me it couldn't connect.
I know there's an offline mode that I can mess with but I really shouldn't have to do that to begin with.

 

[Fragged_Templar]

love steam, I prefer to get my games as hard copy, but for all the games I download steam is my first and usually only choice.