Poll: Suicide

[ronald1840]

why is it our dicision? if they want to kill themselves let them. they have all ready made there mind. think of it as natural selection, "strengthening the species".

Like seperating the sand and dirt from water.

 

[Eireronin]

I have had some pretty bad shit happen to me (ages 5-13 were particularly fucked up years), but suicide is not something I could ever understand. It may sound terrible but to me people who are suicidal have surrendered, they're letting the actions of others/random bad shit that happens every day pile on top of them and force them into committing an action that only serves to proves the reason that many of them seem to use, that "the world would be better off without them". From my perspective suicide basically makes every action of the vicim and those who contributed to their being irrelevent. Evolution is based on "the survival of the fittest", if you aren't strong enough to either endure the events and random acts that make life hard then all you are doing is providing proof that the human race doesn't need you.
I've never considered ending my own life, when I was being bullied at school and ignored by teachers I did consider homicide, ending the lives of those who were hurting me.

 

[ronald1840]

I say let'em kill themselves, A) the world has a population problem to begin with and B) some guys are gonna do it, whether they're mocked or not, I see no reason to make fun of someone in that horrible of a situation, but I see no reason to defend them either. I also think talking jumpers off buildings is silly though, for every guy who kills himself (at least in america) there is one more job, 3 more meals a day, and a new home (possibly) for someone who actually wants to live. Now if they're depressed, try therapy first, but if that fails, let them die. Same thing with old people and terminal illnesses, I can't fathom why someone with something like Huntington's or near death cancer would want to live in all that pain.

This is appropriate.

I can't even fucking consider you to be a human being. So someone's suffering is good because it benefits society? A society which, more than likely, rejected the person because of their mental instability. You are a fucking disgusting person.

 

[StellarViking]

I'm much more likely to help someone with it. Sure, I've joked about it here and there and personally, I'd rather die a different sort of death, but if someone's seriously contemplating it, I do all I can to talk them out of it.

 

[Bloodstain]

snip

In a manner of speaking, yes they technically do "want" to commit suicide. However, you're forgetting that these people are mentally ill, and their thinking patterns are extremely twisted and illogical. That's the nature of suicidality; a person sees things in ways that may not actually be as negative as they think they are. If they realized that they were unconsciously blowing things out of proportion, they would probably reconsider. This is the case with most with suicidal depression. ie: Things are never as bad as they think they are, so the reasons for their contemplation of suicide as a potential solution don't exist. If they were able to see this, they wouldn't want to do it anymore.

Still, they can't see it this way. And I will repeat myself: They won't be able to regret their suicide. So unless it's a close friend or relative: Why not let them kill themselves if they want to?
Preventing someone from killing himself even though he wants to is, in my opinion, a severe infringement of his rights. He has the right to end his life as much as he has the right to live.

On a side note: I wouldn't say that all suicidal people are that way, and there is never a good reason for killing yourself. I think there are plenty of good reasons to end one's life, and if one chooses to do so, he shouldn't be regarded as being "wrong" and "misguided".

 

[ronald1840]

Oh, Nancy, this is shaping up to be a controversial thread.

First of all, suicide is not something you joke about. There is no death more tragic than a slow one caused by one's own hand. Suicide isn't something people just "do" on a whim; it often comes after years of depression, self-deprecation and adversity. And suicidal people ARE depressed people. How the fuck else do you suppose a person can do something so incredibly against their strongest innate instincts?

Another important thing that needs to get across: suicide is something ANYONE is capable of. It's not just for cowards, it's the product of a number of conditions that can be present in ANYONE'S life.

Whether suicide is "selfish" or not is irrelevant. People who kill themselves believe a number of things about themselves and the world:

1. Life is nothing but pain.
2. Nobody cares about them. Nobody really loves them.
3. Things are never going to improve, no matter what they do.

They think these things because their cognitive processes are skewed, because the amount of negative or traumatic events they have experienced are so multitudinous they have learned to view the world in a way that isn't necessarily true. Whatever suffering a person's suicide may cause to their loved ones, it NEVER outweighs the suffering they have experienced or caused to themselves. Suicide as a "selfish" action is a concept enforced by Judeo-Christian dogma, because those who follow it believe the human body and soul is not "theirs", but that it belongs to God.

Suicide is a desperate attempt to escape a painful existence that doesn't feel like it's worth living. For a person to even consider suicide, they have to experience a tremendous amount of emotional pain over an extremely long period of time. Suicide doesn't happen to well-adjusted people, it happens to wounded people and those with poor coping skills (for fuck's sake, count yourself lucky that you learned them while growing up, because some weren't so lucky; and you do have to learn them; they aren't innate).

Another thing: you don't get a pass to mock suicidal people if you were once so yourself. If anything, that gives you less of an excuse to do so, and it shows that you're still not over your problems; if you feel the need to mock suicidals, or even the right, that is a very old defense mechanism called Projection, which is a product of repression, and it denotes that the person making light of suicide isn't a "former" suicidal; the conditions in their life that caused them to have drastic cognitive thoughts like the contemplation of suicide are still present.

The only thing I will concede to the above is that those who have never experienced depression at a suicidal level have less of a right to take it lightly than those who have, but only because they have no idea what the fuck they're talking about.

Lemme let you in on something about yourself you may not know: because you're a human, and because humans are social animals, you have instincts built into your psyche to keep the strongest members out. It's the same principle that causes herds to leave their older, sicker, weaker ones to die; if you can't help yourself, the tribe doesn't care to help you. The problem is that the tribe itself more often than not creates the very problems that cause others to become potential "threats." The way this translates into the current topic is that the people who become suicidal are often victims of paternal, social, or economic torment.

You know that phrase "don't let yourself be a victim?" That rancid fart of a maxim is a starry-eyed, overoptimistic view of the world that seeks to inspire others to great achievements by making it seem like everyone is capable of having personalities like Ghandi, who himself "refused to be a victim". Not everyone has the same cognitive processes. Not everyone is fortunate with how their lives turn out (Ghandi himself had money, despite being a minority. He was a lawyer before he became a human rights activist). The sad truth is the only way to live your life is to do the best with what you have. That doesn't mean you shouldn't try; nothing is gained without great sacrifice. What I mean is that not everyone has a high success rate in the total amount of endeavors they seek to accomplish. Not everyone escapes persecution and abuse. NOT EVERYONE HAS THE SAME LIFE. Saying that someone with emotional imbalances deserves to be made fun of is a statement on a level of ignorance that frankly I find staggering.

Wow

This is probably one of the truest things I have ever read on the Escapist. I feel sick looking at the people who say "There is no reason someone should commit suicide.", and I feel sicker when I read people saying that it's right to laugh at them.

 

[spartandude]

i had a suicide attempt

 

[ronald1840]

Thank you OP

 

[Icehearted]

Oh, Nancy, this is shaping up to be a controversial thread.

First of all, suicide is not something you joke about. There is no death more tragic than a slow one caused by one's own hand. Suicide isn't something people just "do" on a whim; it often comes after years of depression, self-deprecation and adversity. And suicidal people ARE depressed people. How the fuck else do you suppose a person can do something so incredibly against their strongest innate instincts?

Another important thing that needs to get across: suicide is something ANYONE is capable of. It's not just for cowards, it's the product of a number of conditions that can be present in ANYONE'S life.

Whether suicide is "selfish" or not is irrelevant. People who kill themselves believe a number of things about themselves and the world:

1. Life is nothing but pain.
2. Nobody cares about them. Nobody really loves them.
3. Things are never going to improve, no matter what they do.

They think these things because their cognitive processes are skewed, because the amount of negative or traumatic events they have experienced are so multitudinous they have learned to view the world in a way that isn't necessarily true. Whatever suffering a person's suicide may cause to their loved ones, it NEVER outweighs the suffering they have experienced or caused to themselves. Suicide as a "selfish" action is a concept enforced by Judeo-Christian dogma, because those who follow it believe the human body and soul is not "theirs", but that it belongs to God, and so they don't technically have ownership over themselves.

Suicide is a desperate attempt to escape a painful existence that doesn't feel like it's worth living. For a person to even consider suicide, they have to experience a tremendous amount of emotional pain over an extremely long period of time. Suicide doesn't happen to well-adjusted people, it happens to wounded people and those with poor coping skills (for fuck's sake, count yourself lucky that you learned them while growing up, because some weren't so lucky; and you do have to learn them- they aren't innate).

Another thing: you don't get a pass to mock suicidal people if you were once so yourself. If anything, that gives you less of an excuse to do so, and it shows that you're still not over your problems; if you feel the need to mock suicidals, or even the right, that is a very old defense mechanism called Projection, which is a product of repression, and it denotes that the person making light of suicide isn't a "former" suicidal; the conditions in their life that caused them to have drastic cognitions like the contemplation of suicide are still present.

The only thing I will concede to the above is that those who have never experienced depression at a suicidal level have less of a right to take it lightly than those who have, but only because they have no idea what the fuck they're talking about.

Lemme let you in on something about yourself you may not know: because you're a human, and because humans are social animals, you have instincts built into your psyche to keep the strongest members in, and the "weaker" ones out. It's the same principle that causes herds to leave their older, sicker, weaker ones to die; if you can't help yourself, the tribe doesn't care to help you. The problem is that the tribe itself more often than not creates the very problems that cause others to become potential "threats." The way this translates into the current topic is that the people who become suicidal are often victims of paternal, social, or economic torment.

You know that phrase "don't let yourself be a victim?" That rancid fart of a maxim is a starry-eyed, overoptimistic view of the world that seeks to inspire others to great achievements by making it seem like everyone is capable of having personalities like Ghandi, who himself "refused to be a victim". Not everyone has the same cognitive processes. Not everyone is fortunate with how their lives turn out (Ghandi himself had money, despite being a minority. He was a lawyer before he became a human rights activist). The sad truth is the only way to live your life is to do the best with what you have. That doesn't mean you shouldn't try; nothing is gained without great sacrifice. What I mean is that not everyone has a high success rate in the total amount of endeavors they seek to accomplish. Not everyone escapes persecution and abuse. NOT EVERYONE HAS THE SAME LIFE. Saying that someone with emotional imbalances deserves to be made fun of is a statement on a level of ignorance that frankly I find staggering.

I totally didn't catch this reply until now. I deeply appreciate your response, more than because it's so well thought out, and not necessarily because I may or may not agree. I just find it heartening to read that others know that they simply DO NOT really know, which is absolutely necessary for people to grow through life. It's so easy to make snap decisions, to assume we get it or understand why, but the truth is unless we're the person going through this period in their life we simply cannot know what their agony feels like, or how willing we would be to live with this grief ourselves.

A wonderfully thought out post I hope some of the others here will consider carefully reflecting upon.

 

[Tomster595]

Complicated answer... I have, but my mocking was because I didn't believe that they were actually suicidal. For example, my friend who is in 8th grade was telling me about this "suicidal" girl that he knew. At first I was kinda concerned, but then he told me that she's already tried to kill herself by overdosing on marijuana. At that point I couldn't really take it seriously.

Other than stuff like this, never. If someone is really clinically depressed and actually wants to kill them self, then I feel bad. I would try to help. I've never been the the point where I actually attempted it or anything but I used to spend a hell of a lot of time contemplating suicide, so I almost know what it's like.

 

[Icehearted]

@ronald1840
I appreciate your appreciation. To be honest while I'm not too terribly surprised at the poll results (even if we take into account trolls and internet tough guys), but it's disconcerting to really see numbers on how many people would readily make fun of someone who is on the verge of suicide. They are a minority, but they are a considerably large one. I don't want to go into personal experiences, but I will say that this is one of those topics that is close to my heart.

I still don't get how it can be considered cowardly or worth picking on someone about. If a person is ready to die because their misery is just too overwhelming, why kick them while they're down, or more so why do it and feel good about that?

 

[thelastgentleman]

I say let'em kill themselves, A) the world has a population problem to begin with and B) some guys are gonna do it, whether they're mocked or not, I see no reason to make fun of someone in that horrible of a situation, but I see no reason to defend them either. I also think talking jumpers off buildings is silly though, for every guy who kills himself (at least in america) there is one more job, 3 more meals a day, and a new home (possibly) for someone who actually wants to live. Now if they're depressed, try therapy first, but if that fails, let them die. Same thing with old people and terminal illnesses, I can't fathom why someone with something like Huntington's or near death cancer would want to live in all that pain.

This is appropriate.

I can't even fucking consider you to be a human being. So someone's suffering is good because it benefits society? A society which, more than likely, rejected the person because of their mental instability. You are a fucking disgusting person.

...part of the society you cant totally lump a single society into an objective argument. Yes there is a majority that may mock said individual, but no matter the case there is always someone out there who is in the same scenario and most likely is suffering the same fate, unless they are antisocial which in that case they relish that fact that they are alone. Its not a bad thing for Moose to feel this way. I know plenty of individuals who would benefit more from their absence then if they continued in their present situation. Take my pin pal Miguel from Peru he would give anything just to be a low-income citizen here in America. If some selfish teen doesn't want his chance in life...Fine give it up Miguel will gladly use it. Be happy with what you got people...it truly is all you have.

 

[Terminal Blue]

You know what's selfish..

Being so self-obsessed that you take someone else's death personally, that you don't actually care about a person's wishes because you're too busy moping over how it reflects on you, or crying because you weren't bright and shining and special enough to make someone want to live.

You know what's cowardly..

Being so afraid of dying that you forget that it's going to happen to all of us and actually consider it one tiny shit's worth of your business how other people do it.

Because, you know, fuck those cowards, they were just running away from their problems. What they should have done is put up with it until nature let them waste away from terminal cancer or turned their brain to wax and let them die and painful humiliating death locked away in a hospital somewhere far away from their friends and family so noone else has to feel bad about it. That's the brave way to die.

I'm sorry to point this out, but people die. It happens, it's unpleasant and it's frightening that one day it will happen to you. Instead of whining because some people choose to die earlier than others, maybe have the basic human respect to accept people's right to self-determination over one of the very few constants in human experience.

The tone this thread is taking disgusts me to my core.

 

[WorldCritic]

I can't say my opinions on suicide due to risk of being put on probation (again) or worse, but I don't laugh at any one who commits or attempts to commit suicide and usually if I'm around someone who does I tend to tell quickly to shut up.

I don't know anyone who has killed themselves, but I do know plenty of people who have tried.

 

[FllippinIDIOT]

for teh lulz of course

 

[Jumplion]

Oh, Nancy, this is shaping up to be a controversial thread.

First of all, suicide is not something you joke about. There is no death more tragic than a slow one caused by one's own hand. Suicide isn't something people just "do" on a whim; it often comes after years of depression, self-deprecation and adversity. And suicidal people ARE depressed people. How the fuck else do you suppose a person can do something so incredibly against their strongest innate instincts?

Another important thing that needs to get across: suicide is something ANYONE is capable of. It's not just for cowards, it's the product of a number of conditions that can be present in ANYONE'S life.

Whether suicide is "selfish" or not is irrelevant. People who kill themselves believe a number of things about themselves and the world:

1. Life is nothing but pain.
2. Nobody cares about them. Nobody really loves them.
3. Things are never going to improve, no matter what they do.

They think these things because their cognitive processes are skewed, because the amount of negative or traumatic events they have experienced are so multitudinous they have learned to view the world in a way that isn't necessarily true. Whatever suffering a person's suicide may cause to their loved ones, it NEVER outweighs the suffering they have experienced or caused to themselves. Suicide as a "selfish" action is a concept enforced by Judeo-Christian dogma, because those who follow it believe the human body and soul is not "theirs", but that it belongs to God, and so they don't technically have ownership over themselves.

Suicide is a desperate attempt to escape a painful existence that doesn't feel like it's worth living. For a person to even consider suicide, they have to experience a tremendous amount of emotional pain over an extremely long period of time. Suicide doesn't happen to well-adjusted people, it happens to wounded people and those with poor coping skills (for fuck's sake, count yourself lucky that you learned them while growing up, because some weren't so lucky; and you do have to learn them- they aren't innate).

Another thing: you don't get a pass to mock suicidal people if you were once so yourself. If anything, that gives you less of an excuse to do so, and it shows that you're still not over your problems; if you feel the need to mock suicidals, or even the right, that is a very old defense mechanism called Projection, which is a product of repression, and it denotes that the person making light of suicide isn't a "former" suicidal; the conditions in their life that caused them to have drastic cognitions like the contemplation of suicide are still present.

The only thing I will concede to the above is that those who have never experienced depression at a suicidal level have less of a right to take it lightly than those who have, but only because they have no idea what the fuck they're talking about.

Lemme let you in on something about yourself you may not know: because you're a human, and because humans are social animals, you have instincts built into your psyche to keep the strongest members in, and the "weaker" ones out. It's the same principle that causes herds to leave their older, sicker, weaker ones to die; if you can't help yourself, the tribe doesn't care to help you. The problem is that the tribe itself more often than not creates the very problems that cause others to become potential "threats." The way this translates into the current topic is that the people who become suicidal are often victims of paternal, social, or economic torment.

You know that phrase "don't let yourself be a victim?" That rancid fart of a maxim is a starry-eyed, overoptimistic view of the world that seeks to inspire others to great achievements by making it seem like everyone is capable of having personalities like Ghandi, who himself "refused to be a victim". Not everyone has the same cognitive processes. Not everyone is fortunate with how their lives turn out (Ghandi himself had money, despite being a minority. He was a lawyer before he became a human rights activist). The sad truth is the only way to live your life is to do the best with what you have. That doesn't mean you shouldn't try; nothing is gained without great sacrifice. What I mean is that not everyone has a high success rate in the total amount of endeavors they seek to accomplish. Not everyone escapes persecution and abuse. NOT EVERYONE HAS THE SAME LIFE. Saying that someone with emotional imbalances deserves to be made fun of is a statement on a level of ignorance that frankly I find staggering.

I had once thought of suicide as an option. I was severely depressed even years after my mother's death, and to an extent I still am probably. I was put on medication, got out of it, and while I still have the occasional thought, I'd like to say I came out better for it.

People don't really seem to understand that calling suicidal people "cowards" or "selfish" is one of the many reasons why they kill themselves in the first place. They (we) think there's no hope in their lives, that someone out there is worse off than them so they shouldn't take up space, all that stuff. It's that feeling of cowardliness, that feeling that "Oh, I'm just being selfish" that (depending on the person) only causes depression even further.

It's not a spur of the moment decision. It's a decision that comes from years upon years of external- and internal-torture. Some people might be going around, giving off hints that they will kill themselves, and that may either be a call for attention or a call for help. After my own experience with it, I take talks of suicide or self-mutilation very seriously. I can joke about it in jest, but when confronted with it I will never mock them or say "toughen up" because that will not help at all.

Survival of the fittest my ass. Should be survival of the decent.

 

[hem dazon 90]

FTL basically

 

[Thamian]

I answered indifferent for a couple of reasons:

1)I have mocked people (ok, one person) who said they were suicidal. But due to the circumstances surrounding that, I not only sincerely doubted they were serious, but felt that if they did kill themselves it would have been a real boost to the quality of the gene pool (yeah, I get like this towards people who harm people who I care about, esp. when they do as much damage as that c**t did).

2)All too often, people who are speaking about it seriously tend to either be beyond saving, or atleast the only people who can save them are the people closest to them. For myself, when I hit that point, if some randomer had tried to help me, I would have thought they were mocking me and so they would have just pushed me closer to stepping over. Only thing which brought me back from the edge was a girl who is basically my sister in everything but blood.

Eitherway however, unless I am one of those people who are that close, I would leave it alone, mainly for fear of making things worse.

 

[Jumplion]

...part of the society you cant totally lump a single society into an objective argument. Yes there is a majority that may mock said individual, but no matter the case there is always someone out there who is in the same scenario and most likely is suffering the same fate, unless they are antisocial which in that case they relish that fact that they are alone. Its not a bad thing for Moose to feel this way. I know plenty of individuals who would benefit more from their absence then if they continued in their present situation. Take my pin pal Miguel from Peru he would give anything just to be a low-income citizen here in America. If some selfish teen doesn't want his chance in life...Fine give it up Miguel will gladly use it. Be happy with what you got people...it truly is all you have.

That's one of the reasons why some people kill themselves. Because they know that someone, somewhere, out there has it worse than them so they should off themselves to make room for the real suffering. That's illogical, however, because there is always someone worse off than the other, and shows that these people are not in the right state of mind. Miguel isn't going to suddenly appear into the US because Moose committed suicide, all it does it make it worse for everybody, and through the twisted logic of a suicidal person it can all make sense.

Not everyone thinks that, but it's certainly what went through my head when I contemplated suicide.

 

[antipunt]

Oh, Nancy, this is shaping up to be a controversial thread.

First of all, suicide is not something you joke about. There is no death more tragic than a slow one caused by one's own hand. Suicide isn't something people just "do" on a whim; it often comes after years of depression, self-deprecation and adversity. And suicidal people ARE depressed people. How the fuck else do you suppose a person can do something so incredibly against their strongest innate instincts?

Another important thing that needs to get across: suicide is something ANYONE is capable of. It's not just for cowards, it's the product of a number of conditions that can be present in ANYONE'S life.

Whether suicide is "selfish" or not is irrelevant. People who kill themselves believe a number of things about themselves and the world:

1. Life is nothing but pain.
2. Nobody cares about them. Nobody really loves them.
3. Things are never going to improve, no matter what they do.

They think these things because their cognitive processes are skewed, because the amount of negative or traumatic events they have experienced are so multitudinous they have learned to view the world in a way that isn't necessarily true. Whatever suffering a person's suicide may cause to their loved ones, it NEVER outweighs the suffering they have experienced or caused to themselves. Suicide as a "selfish" action is a concept enforced by Judeo-Christian dogma, because those who follow it believe the human body and soul is not "theirs", but that it belongs to God, and so they don't technically have ownership over themselves.

Suicide is a desperate attempt to escape a painful existence that doesn't feel like it's worth living. For a person to even consider suicide, they have to experience a tremendous amount of emotional pain over an extremely long period of time. Suicide doesn't happen to well-adjusted people, it happens to wounded people and those with poor coping skills (for fuck's sake, count yourself lucky that you learned them while growing up, because some weren't so lucky; and you do have to learn them- they aren't innate).

Another thing: you don't get a pass to mock suicidal people if you were once so yourself. If anything, that gives you less of an excuse to do so, and it shows that you're still not over your problems; if you feel the need to mock suicidals, or even the right, that is a very old defense mechanism called Projection, which is a product of repression, and it denotes that the person making light of suicide isn't a "former" suicidal; the conditions in their life that caused them to have drastic cognitions like the contemplation of suicide are still present.

The only thing I will concede to the above is that those who have never experienced depression at a suicidal level have less of a right to take it lightly than those who have, but only because they have no idea what the fuck they're talking about.

Lemme let you in on something about yourself you may not know: because you're a human, and because humans are social animals, you have instincts built into your psyche to keep the strongest members in, and the "weaker" ones out. It's the same principle that causes herds to leave their older, sicker, weaker ones to die; if you can't help yourself, the tribe doesn't care to help you. The problem is that the tribe itself more often than not creates the very problems that cause others to become potential "threats." The way this translates into the current topic is that the people who become suicidal are often victims of paternal, social, or economic torment.

You know that phrase "don't let yourself be a victim?" That rancid fart of a maxim is a starry-eyed, overoptimistic view of the world that seeks to inspire others to great achievements by making it seem like everyone is capable of having personalities like Ghandi, who himself "refused to be a victim". Not everyone has the same cognitive processes. Not everyone is fortunate with how their lives turn out (Ghandi himself had money, despite being a minority. He was a lawyer before he became a human rights activist). The sad truth is the only way to live your life is to do the best with what you have. That doesn't mean you shouldn't try; nothing is gained without great sacrifice. What I mean is that not everyone has a high success rate in the total amount of endeavors they seek to accomplish. Not everyone escapes persecution and abuse. NOT EVERYONE HAS THE SAME LIFE. Saying that someone with emotional imbalances deserves to be made fun of is a statement on a level of ignorance that frankly I find staggering.

Not directed at this post -only-, but to this post AND all others like it. It's these kinds of posts that strengthens my faith in the integrity of the Escapist community. I used to frequent gamefaqs, and the insensitive regurgitated garbage you'd read there regarding an issue as sensitive as suicide would've made any sensible person hurl. Kudos to the people who are speaking sanely and maturely.