Poll: Superior Character: Batman or Superman

[Nalgas D. Lemur]

Neither is superior to the other; Batman has his place, and Superman has his. There's a time for every thing and so forth.

In general with how they are written (which is distinct from their character as a whole), I would say that Batman tends to be much better. But the deepest pieces I've read of Superman are far deeper than Batman's, so it all depends on what you're needing.

Can't really disagree there. They both have the potential to have some pretty interesting things done with them, but it doesn't always happen with the writing for Superman. Something like Secret Identity [http://www.amazon.com/Superman-Kurt-Busiek/dp/1845760077/] that really explores the character well is better than anything Batman-based I've ever seen though. It's kind of tragic that it's been out of print for so long, because it's one of the best comics I've ever read, period.

 

[A Free Man]

Alright. When it comes to fighting I am quite sure that Superman would punch a hole through Batman's face and that would be the end of it. Now it pains me to say that because I think as a whole Batman is a far better character than Superman. More interesting. His story lines are better, but, what do you guys think?

Can't believe this is even a question! Batman hands down. Dark Knight was one of my favorite movies ever. Well maybe not top 5 but somewhere up there. Saw it 3 times at the cinemas which is very unusual for me.

 

[scorptatious]

I'm not too knowledgeable about Superman so someone fill me in:

What exactly is kryptonite? Does it come from Krypton? If so, why would Superman be weak against something from his own planet? I've never understood that as I never took too much interest in Superman other then videos of the infamous Superman 64.

Anyway, I personally prefer Batman. I feel that he's a more sympathetic and interesting character. Plus one his greatest enemies is the Joker.

The FUCKING Joker.


How can you not love this guy??

 

[Thaluikhain]

Generally Batman, but depends on teh writer, Superman can be done well.

In any case, the bat family is much more itneresting than Batman is...hang on, Robin1/Nightwing was Batman for a bit...Batman wins, hands down.

Having said that, the reboot has presumably ruined them alogn with everything else. If the DC offices were invaded by Daleks[footnote]The cool, old school ones, not the rubbish new ones[/footnote], killed a bunch of the staff and turned others into Robomen to enslave the rest, the comics still wouldn't be as bad as they are now.

 

[Pandabearparade]

Sorry, I can't look at Superman's character with anything even resembling objectivity, so I won't try. He's a God, he can do just about anything the plot needs him to (unless the plot needs him not to), and that's just not something I can look past. He's a god-mode Mary Sue from a time period and medium that didn't have high standards regarding character depth. Fuck Superman.

Inversely, Batman is actually a human being with flaws and weaknesses: Batman wins.

 

[Twilight_guy]

1. Define "Superior." No serious. More interesting character? Who would win in a fight? WHo do I like more?

2. This argument is stupid. There fictional characters and thus are nebulous lumps of potential. They're personality and powers have varied wildly between decades, writers, and storylines.

3. Why does one need to be superior to the other? Can't they be equal? Can't we say "superman and batman are friends who save the world" and be done with it? There is always a forced tension where we have a Highlander mentally that there can be only one and we have to chose the best for everything, why not just let things be?

 

[Scarim Coral]

Batman but only becasue I find him to be a deep and complex character when compared to Superman.

 

[axlryder]

1. Define "Superior." No serious. More interesting character? Who would win in a fight? WHo do I like more?

2. This argument is stupid. There fictional characters and thus are nebulous lumps of potential. They're personality and powers have varied wildly between decades, writers, and storylines.

3. Why does one need to be superior to the other? Can't they be equal? Can't we say "superman and batman are friends who save the world" and be done with it? There is always a forced tension where we have a Highlander mentally that there can be only one and we have to chose the best for everything, why not just let things be?

1.) I believe most people are taking this from a character and writing standpoint. A legit "who would win in a fight" debate is kind of silly, pandering crossovers notwithstanding.

2.) No it's not stupid, the premise is merely vague (admittedly vague to the point that most VS. forum moderators would probably ask for further details), but even taking into account the various versions of supes (golden age, silver age, one million, all star, modern, etc.) and the decidedly fewer iterations of Batman, there are obvious patterns that have formed regardless of who's writing who and when. Superman's power level is probably the most inconsistent thing, but even the weakest version of superman could (realistically) beat batman in a fight with his oft-touted intellect intact and no PIS.

3.) If you're referring to the poll, Yeah it could probably use an "eh, about the same" option. However, if you're just saying in general, it's because it is obviously within several people's range of interest to cast their own opinion and thus likely are interesting in the opinions of others in regards to which character is superior. It's natural to want to see where the numbers stand on the matter in relation to one's own opinion, and that's why polls like this exist. Seriously, it's like looking at two video games and saying "can't we just like both the same?". Obviously people are going to form a preference and feel one is superior. Opinions will diverge but that's what sharing opinions is all about. That's why forums exist.

 

[Hero in a half shell]

Spoiler: I think this interview of Grant Morrison is relevant

GB: Superman and Batman are the two defining icons among comic books, and now that you've spent considerable time with both of them as a writer, I'm curious how you've come to view them, both as separate figures and as linked opposites.

GM: Superman is very bright and optimistic. It's all the simple things. He's of the day and of the sunlight, and Batman is the creature of the night. I'm interested in the fact that they both believe in the same kind of things. But Batman is better. He's screwed up. Thats what makes him cool. Even though he's solved all his problems in his own head he is, as I see him, a man with a very dark sense of humor and a very dark view of the world. He has to overcome that constantly. He's forever fighting to make the world better, which means it's never good for Batman. The rest of us have good days. We don't fight everyday. Batman fights every single day. He has that dark Plutonian side.

GB: The public personalities of Bruce Wayne and Clark Kent don't seem as polarized as their alter egos.

GM: Bruce Wayne is a rich man. He's an artistocrat. Superman grew up as Clark Kent on a farm bailing hay, and he's got a boss that shouts at him if he's late to work. He's actually more human; Batman is the fetish fantasy psyche of the aristocrat overlord who can do anything he wants, and that's fascinating. The class difference between the two of them is important.

GB: I?ve never thought much about the class distinctions between the two.

GM: You're an American; you live in Los Angeles! You don't have to think of class distinction in the same way we Brits do. But there is very much a distinction between the two. People often forget Superman is very much a put-upon guy. Bruce has a butler, Clark has a boss ?

GB: True, but Clark also owns real estate in the Arctic, flies for free and can crush coal into fist-sized diamonds. He doesn?t need to have a boss.

GM: Yeah, but he so wants to be like us. He pines after one girl while Batman has a whole host of fetish femmes fatale at his beck and call.

GB: The ladies love the car, I think.

GM: Of course. He's got everything. I like that. He's our kind of dream of the aristocrat. He?s even better than the Tony Stark/Iron Man thing; he's got that as well as the dark side. That's the difference between Superman and Batman. There both interesting to write, but Batman is the sexier one, definitely.

Spoiler: and this

In the end, I saw Superman not as a superhero or even a science fiction character, but as a story of Everyman. We're all Superman in our own adventures. We have our own Fortresses of Solitude we retreat to, with our own special collections of valued stuff, our own super?pets, our own "Bottle Cities" that we feel guilty for neglecting. We have our own peers and rivals and bizarre emotional or moral tangles to deal with.

I felt I'd really grasped the concept when I saw him as Everyman, or rather as the dreamself of Everyman. That "S" is the radiant emblem of divinity we reveal when we rip off our stuffy shirts, our social masks, our neuroses, our constructed selves, and become who we truly are.

Batman is obviously much cooler, but that's because he's a very energetic and adolescent fantasy character: a handsome billionaire playboy in black leather with a butler at this beck and call, better cars and gadgetry than James Bond, a horde of fetish femme fatales baying around his heels and no boss. That guy's Superman day and night.

Superman grew up baling hay on a farm. He goes to work, for a boss, in an office. He pines after a hard?working gal. Only when he tears off his shirt does that heroic, ideal inner self come to life. That's actually a much more adult fantasy than the one Batman?s peddling but it also makes Superman a little harder to sell. He's much more of a working class superhero, which is why we ended the whole book with the image of a laboring Superman.

He's Everyman operating on a sci?fi Paul Bunyan scale. His worries and emotional problems are the same as ours... except that when he falls out with his girlfriend, the world trembles.

Personally I love both and think we'd be poorer without both.

Wow, I never knew Supermans character had so much depth before, I just never thought of him like that.

It's a pity more people didn't seem to read your post though, judging by the amount of "Superman has no character" posts appeared after yours. Thanks for those quotes anyway, they've given me a whole new outlook and respect for Superman.

 

[Starik20X6]

They're two sides of the same coin, but I grew up as a Batman fan, something that has defined a lot of my personality. I wonder what I'd be like in an alternate universe where I'd been a Superman fan instead...

 

[kasperbbs]

Batman, because superman is way too powerful, so whenever he gets his ass kicked it looks ridiculous, a lot of his hardships could have been avoided by simply flying into the sky and blasting bad guys with his laser eyes, but that would be boring.

 

[WolfThomas]

Wow, I never knew Supermans character had so much depth before, I just never thought of him like that.

It's a pity more people didn't seem to read your post though, judging by the amount of "Superman has no character" posts appeared after yours. Thanks for those quotes anyway, they've given me a whole new outlook and respect for Superman.

Yeah Morrison gets Superman. If you ever have the chance read (or watch the animated version of) "All Star Superman". Can be a bit confusing at times, but some of the best Superman ever written.

Spoiler: Has this great moment

Also thanks for the quoting, heh, I usually only get notifications when people are arguing with me.

 

[Adeptus Aspartem]

I'm not a comic pro, but wasn't there a fight between Batty and Superboring, and Batman won with his superior intelligence and tricked him into something. Dunno anymore

But that would make it clear: Batman > Superboring.

Superman is the comic equivalent of Super Mario. Wanna be Chuck Norris'.

 

[Vivi22]

Yeah Morrison gets Superman. If you ever have the chance read (or watch the animated version of) "All Star Superman". Can be a bit confusing at times, but some of the best Superman ever written.

Spoiler: Has this great moment

Also thanks for the quoting, heh, I usually only get notifications when people are arguing with me.

I love that moment, and All Star Superman in general. I have the Absolute edition sitting on my shelf at home.

The way I see it, although I like Batman, I actually do like Superman more. I think a lot of writers find it easier to write Batman, or perhaps more accurately, his rogues gallery (many a Batman story has been saved by the likes of the Joker), but that's simply because writing a character as powerful as Superman is hard. Most writers simply don't know what to do with him and how to make a story with any sense of pacing. So they get too hung up on trying to find ways to challenge Superman and completely forget that there's more to him than just his powers.

The best Superman stories I've ever read often outshine some of the best Batman stuff I've read. It just takes a writer who really gets the character to get the story there, and they're usually interesting because they address the actual character; his views, beliefs, and how he sees his role in the world.

 

[Wintermoot]

just read Superman Red Son

Spoiler

Batman lures Superman to a field where lamps replicate Krypton,s red sun causing Superman to lose his powers Batman then nearly beats Superman but WonderWoman disables the lamps causing Superman to regain his powers and beat Batman.
If WonderWoman had not intervened Superman would have lost

Batmen obviously.

 

[Muspelheim]

Blacksad would kick their butts.

But, alright... I think Superman would most likely win, but Batman would still be the spiritual victor, since he's at least marginally less eye-glasingly boring.

 

[WolfThomas]

The best Superman stories I've ever read often outshine some of the best Batman stuff I've read. It just takes a writer who really gets the character to get the story there, and they're usually interesting because they address the actual character; his views, beliefs, and how he sees his role in the world.

I agree with this, while on average I find Batman stories more enjoyable, but when I think of the best Batman story it's like the Dark Knight Returns or the Long Halloween, but when I think of the best Superman stories there's All Star Superman, Man of All Seasons, Whatever Happened to the Man of Tommorrow, Red Son, Secret Identiy, Kingdom Come (admitteldly an ensemble piece but he's the main character) and more.

 

[For.I.Am.Mad]

In my old age I've come to appreciate Superman and what he stands for. So...Superman.

'All that power makes him boring.' Ok, then what's Goku's excuse?

 

[KrossBillNye]

just read Superman Red Son

Spoiler

Batman lures Superman to a field where lamps replicate Krypton,s red sun causing Superman to lose his powers Batman then nearly beats Superman but WonderWoman disables the lamps causing Superman to regain his powers and beat Batman.
If WonderWoman had not intervened Superman would have lost

Batmen obviously.

And if Batman didn't have the lamps Superman would have won... So they both needed help. Although without either of them getting help who do you think would have won. That'd be like me slipping Mike Tyson a roofie punching him in the face and insisting I'm a better fighter than Mike Tyson.

That can be highly arguable. Lets say Superman didn't have his powers. Who would win? Batman because of his martial arts training, his constant physical training because he honed himself to be in top physical and mental form.

Superman would only win if he had his superhuman strength, speed, and agility.

Without his powers, Superman doesn't stand a chance.

 

[Philol]

Batman! He fights crime without super powers. Plus he gets to fight the joker.