Poll: Teen Shot dead after attempting to mug man

[Toasted Nuts]

Asking whether or not this 18 year old kid deserved to die is something we cannot know just by reading this article. He was only 18 and yes he shouldn't have his life ended at such a young age.

OP wasnt asking if the teen deserved to die, he was asking if Baker was right. The court would view these as two very different circumstances.

Alot of people are confusing these two points. No the teen didnt deserve to die. But Yes, Baker was right to defend himself. And if you dont think that he was, imagine yourself of a family member in that joggers place when late night assailant try to mug them. Many victims of muggings have not been as lucky to live through the incident. This is a rare occasion that one of the perps got that hard justice.

However, I dont think that arming everyone with a handgun is the way to end crime. I'd prefer swords.

Maybe there needs to be better non-lethal firearms? I personally like the shotgun that shoots riot control beanball slugs (only if my swords are out of the question)

Did you read the whole of my post???????????????????

You pretty much go on to say exactly what I said in the rest of my post that Baker was right..

However i just wanted to make the point before hand that though Baker was right this kid was still only 18....

 

[Dense_Electric]

I don't care whether or not he or others felt it was a life threatening situation. Killing somebody is never right, I don't care who or what they are, it's just that sometimes people go over the top, as did Baker. I'm not saying that if my life really was in danger I wouldn't harm the other person, but if I were to kill them when I didn't truly feel threatened, then I would take my punishment. I'm very surprised that people feel this was a life threatening situation - Mustelier was unarmed and only punched him in the face.
Also it's clear that Baker had premeditated his actions. To instantly pull out a gun and fire straight after being punched in the face, and to have the gun at all, shows that he didn't care whether or not he shot someone on any night of his life, which in itself is an odd and careless decision to make.
I'm not saying I have balls of steel, I'm a pussy compared to a lot of people I know, I'm just saying my experiences have never led me to harm somebody else or even want to. Yeah by the way I'm 16 aswell, which shows you how immature Baker was.

You can go on about "moral highground" or whatever all you want and act like your view is the only right one, but at the end of the day there's a real chance you'll be dead and there will be a potentially dangerous criminal on the loose.

 

[mcl323]

Being from England I don't really know much about gun laws, but in my opinion the shooter acted reasonably in the circumstances. If I was mugged and had a way to defend myself then I wouldn't think twice about going down that route. The amount of shots fired might seem a little excessive, but that's what happens when adrenaline and fear take over.

 

[Klepa]

In an attempt to simplify..

You genuinely believe that a man is about to kill you.

If you fire 8 bullets, your chance to live is 100%, and his is 0%.
If you fire 0 bullets, your chance to live is 0%, and his is 100%.
If you fire 4 bullets, your chance to live is 50%, and his is 50%.


Would you give the attacker a chance to survive, and hold your trigger finger, knowing that the shots you fired might've missed, and it might cost you your life? How many bullets would you fire?

 

[Celtic_Kerr]

Did he deserve to die? No.
But at the same time, I don't think the shooter should be punished for defending himself, especially if he had the license to carry the weapon.

And this is coming from someone who thinks America's right to bare arms is ridiculously outdated.

I'm actually not sure where I stand.

Hollow point bullets, I remember there's something special about those.. I think..

And the dude's vision was blurred, but he had a laser sight...

See, I think that's the one problem for me, the laser sight. Seems like a touch of overkill for "I'm just defending myself"

Shot to the leg or arm would have sufficed...

 

[Mitsozuka]

You break the law, and screw someone's day up, yeah. Minus one face, and heartbeat soon to follow. Still amazes me how stupid people can be though.

 

[Guitar Gamer]

Well from what the news article it would appear the jogger was attacked without even given a chance to peacfully give up his valuables.
It sounds awful but I may have to side with the jogger, I mean it may be a bit rash to kill someone for one punch but hell if you think some guy is gunna kill you and you can defend yourself I can't really blame you for doing so,

 

[BrionJames]

It's unfortunate it had to go down that way, but if you go around trying to mug people in a state that allows concealed weapons, don't be surprised if you get shot.

 

[mythicdawn12]

I'm glad the great majority of the posts are siding with the man who executed his universal right to self defense.
I'm incredibly frustrated with anyone who's said that civilians shouldn't own weapons. I know that plenty of the users here are from Orwellian countries, but I would think they'd realize that America's second amendment isn't just for self defense. Of course, if I start talking about how there is always the possibility of the government going power-happy and taking away people's rights there are going to be those of you saying "conspiracy theorist" etc.
But it's true. Fact is people need guns for self defense. If we had no guns and instead had swords, I would be saying the same thing, except with swords. Stop thinking with only your heart. This "guns are bad because they kill people" mentality is poison.

 

[Katana314]

To those surprised at the number of rounds; Guns are a weapon you use solely to KILL somebody. You do not pull one out if you expect to incapacitate them, hurt them, or even scare them. As an example, police are never trained to fire at the legs. When you fire, you fire under the expectation that you are taking a life. Further rounds are used to avoid the possibility of missing and allowing yourself danger, and to avoid the target having a slow, painful death.

Now back on what I said about what police are not trained to do; they ARE trained, however, to avoid lethal force whenever possible, with other means (paragraph below) and it usually works. You'd be surprised how little an actual police officer actually has to draw their gun with the intent of using it. It may only happen a few times in their entire career.

If you strongly believe that you would never want to take a life, don't ever buy a gun. Invest in something like a taser, pepper spray, or possibly even rubber bullets or beanbags. Even then you can get into more dangerous levels (which is why they call it "less lethal") but even that reduction of force can be worth it if you value human life.

 

[TheYellowCellPhone]

Why.

WHHHHHHHHY.

Was this thread necro'd!?!?!?!? This thread caused a huge gun debate on the Escapist that I really don't want to see return.

 

[Terminate421]

People defending themselves shouldn't be charged with assault, WHEN THEY ARE TRYING TO SURVIVE.

 

[Thyunda]

People defending themselves shouldn't be charged with assault, WHEN THEY ARE TRYING TO SURVIVE.

Question: two kids demanding money from a man, one of which slapped the 28 year old man who's twice their size.

Where is the mortal danger in that situation?

Well, two kids who start a fight with a guy bigger and presumably stronger than them, presumably also have some form of backup. If you go into the woods to fight a bear, it's because you have a powerful rifle.
The mortal danger was there. Either Baker shot first, or the teens revealed their own weapons. Which, as it turns out, they did not have.

Besides, in my personal opinion, they got what they should have expected. You go around confronting people and demanding money, you are going to get punished. You WILL pick the wrong target. The man had a gun. There was a laser sight, which I assume was for sport-shooting. He fired eight shots. To me, that says he just kept firing until he could see again and saw he was no longer in danger.

 

[Uszi]

Old thread is old!!

Honestly, it should be locked. If it died months ago, why revive it? Why would you start a debate where people are pulling quotes people made 3 months ago?


Just start a new thread :|

 

[Ponce Master-General]

He had every right to shoot, but I think that shooting the kid FOUR FUCKING TIMES is a bit much.

 

[Tanis]

He had every right to shoot, but I think that shooting the kid FOUR FUCKING TIMES is a bit much.

Have you ever shot a gun? Maybe under pressure or fear?

Sometimes you just keep pulling the trigger.
One shot becomes four.