Poll: The DeathNote
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the sweet escape?Nemu said:
if you put them in with gen pop what do you thing will happen, and also if they dont kill him then the tax payers are just paying money to keep an unwanted/dangerous/hazard to society, alive, money that could be used on other things... but still that could be said about most convicts.
Agreed on all points. Although L was also awesome.Ultrajoe said:
I hated the Anime once:
He died. Everything up to that point was pure awesome, it wasn't the fact he died but all the crap that happened afterwards.
All of it? Any particular reason? I think it made some excellent points on 'morality' as well as the abuse of power.Nemu said:
If only I could get my hands (and pen) on that book. First thing I'd do is get a list of everyone in the world.
He's in the grey area. If he's killing Sociopaths, mass murderers, reapeat offenders then its still a grey area but alright. But since he's killing the cops trying to get him that makes him a bit of a bad person. I havent seen the anime since i dont watch much anime but it seems like this guy is gunna go all corupt and think he can do whatever he wants.
I'll go with bad, not only because I think the Deathnote gives a person like Light too much power which can ultimately corrupt them, but because I'm personally against killing any human being even if they've done a terrible crime. Even if the majority of evidence can support a person had done the crime in question, there's always a chance, if only a slim one, that the individual is innocent of the crime.
I'll go into more detail about my thoughts on this, as I'm a fan of this anime and I'm against the death penalty, as that's what Light is basically giving to anyone's names he writes in his deathnote. Ultimately, Light believed that a presence of a God of sorts in people's lives would've kept humanity's tendancy to sin or commit crime in check, especially if that being had the ability to kill any who did wrong. However, it is unfortunately part of the human condition to sin and do bad things occasionally, no matter what forces tell them not too, even if death is the punishment for their sins. People sin or kill for basically three reasons - profit, passion, and compulsion. Those who do it for profit do it very rationally, beliving they'll never be caught, such as gangsters and professional assassins. Then there's passion, as if you're that angry at someone or something that you'd do something terrible to whatever is in question, then nothing not even punishment by death can deter you because thinking rationally can't usually overcome such a level of anger, such as finding your brother in bed in your wife and you kill them both in a fit of rage. And finally, compulsion, in which there is no reason for why the sinner commits the crime in question, because they did it on compulsion to get some kind of satisfaction out of it, such as serial killers. Granted, the presence of some kind of force that would punish criminals with death can probably deter them from commiting crime to a certain degree, but you can't fight instinct, and humanity itself has a very unfortunate complex balance of it's instincts of self-preservation and self-destruction.
As for the criminal in question being possibly innoncent when proven guilty by court or by the feelings of the general public, there have been several instances where people have been convicted of terrible crimes and later discovered that they were innoncent. This is due to that there is always a chance some kind of evidence, no matter when or if it ever comes in, or how weak or strong it is, that it can show proof that the person in question is innoncent of commiting a crime. And there's always the chance a witness to the crime or sin in question can mistakenly indentify a person for the one that did commit the crime, or even lie to protect whoever commited the sin if they happen to know who the person is. Even various prosecutors have been caught from time to time withholding evidence that the person they're trying to convict is innocent. You just can't kill somebody over something, because they'll always might be something that may prove of their innocence, and Light is basically giving into his temptations of wanting to rid evil in the most dumb way possible. Also, many also think killing someone in order to prevent others from possibly following their footsteps or teachings or even think of doing so, can possibly believe that, but if you do, then you should look towards several historical people like Jesus or Guy Fawkes that prove there are inspirational people who have been killed and who's beliefs still resonate in the hearts of many people who admirred or worshiped them.
As for Light himself, I once read a book that discussed about Deathnote and Light, that there are fans who believe and theroized that there's a possibility of Light doing what he's doing because he feels guilty over killing his first two victims with the deathnote. After realizing he killed two people with the deathnote, and his two victims crimes were the least serious of all the criminals he's killed, he obviously tried to rationalize to himself that they deserved to be killed and that all who commit crime derserve the same thing. He obviously knows deep down that he himself is a killer and by his logic, he himself his a terrible criminal who deserves to be put to death, regardless if he was doing whatever he was doing was for the benefit of mankind. But if it were up to me on how I'd punish Light for his crimes, I wouldn't kill him but I'd put him in some kind of Hannibal Lecter-like cell where he'd spend his entire life in, though Ryuk would of course kill him as he did in the final episode/manga of Deathnote when Light was found out that he was Kira. As far as I'm concerned, criminals should be kept in prison. If the prisons start getting overcrowed, make more prisons. If it's becoming more expensive, feed them cheaper food. Punishment doesn't always have to fit the crime, because if we have to try to be a better people, we must not submit to our sinful instincts, including the desire to get rid of those who threaten us or each other with a threat of death or misfortune.
In the words of Near in the final episode of Deathnote, Light is nothing more than a multiple serial killer with a god-complex, who posesses the most destructive murder weapon in history. Nothing more, nothing less.
I'll get off my soap box now.
I'll go into more detail about my thoughts on this, as I'm a fan of this anime and I'm against the death penalty, as that's what Light is basically giving to anyone's names he writes in his deathnote. Ultimately, Light believed that a presence of a God of sorts in people's lives would've kept humanity's tendancy to sin or commit crime in check, especially if that being had the ability to kill any who did wrong. However, it is unfortunately part of the human condition to sin and do bad things occasionally, no matter what forces tell them not too, even if death is the punishment for their sins. People sin or kill for basically three reasons - profit, passion, and compulsion. Those who do it for profit do it very rationally, beliving they'll never be caught, such as gangsters and professional assassins. Then there's passion, as if you're that angry at someone or something that you'd do something terrible to whatever is in question, then nothing not even punishment by death can deter you because thinking rationally can't usually overcome such a level of anger, such as finding your brother in bed in your wife and you kill them both in a fit of rage. And finally, compulsion, in which there is no reason for why the sinner commits the crime in question, because they did it on compulsion to get some kind of satisfaction out of it, such as serial killers. Granted, the presence of some kind of force that would punish criminals with death can probably deter them from commiting crime to a certain degree, but you can't fight instinct, and humanity itself has a very unfortunate complex balance of it's instincts of self-preservation and self-destruction.
As for the criminal in question being possibly innoncent when proven guilty by court or by the feelings of the general public, there have been several instances where people have been convicted of terrible crimes and later discovered that they were innoncent. This is due to that there is always a chance some kind of evidence, no matter when or if it ever comes in, or how weak or strong it is, that it can show proof that the person in question is innoncent of commiting a crime. And there's always the chance a witness to the crime or sin in question can mistakenly indentify a person for the one that did commit the crime, or even lie to protect whoever commited the sin if they happen to know who the person is. Even various prosecutors have been caught from time to time withholding evidence that the person they're trying to convict is innocent. You just can't kill somebody over something, because they'll always might be something that may prove of their innocence, and Light is basically giving into his temptations of wanting to rid evil in the most dumb way possible. Also, many also think killing someone in order to prevent others from possibly following their footsteps or teachings or even think of doing so, can possibly believe that, but if you do, then you should look towards several historical people like Jesus or Guy Fawkes that prove there are inspirational people who have been killed and who's beliefs still resonate in the hearts of many people who admirred or worshiped them.
As for Light himself, I once read a book that discussed about Deathnote and Light, that there are fans who believe and theroized that there's a possibility of Light doing what he's doing because he feels guilty over killing his first two victims with the deathnote. After realizing he killed two people with the deathnote, and his two victims crimes were the least serious of all the criminals he's killed, he obviously tried to rationalize to himself that they deserved to be killed and that all who commit crime derserve the same thing. He obviously knows deep down that he himself is a killer and by his logic, he himself his a terrible criminal who deserves to be put to death, regardless if he was doing whatever he was doing was for the benefit of mankind. But if it were up to me on how I'd punish Light for his crimes, I wouldn't kill him but I'd put him in some kind of Hannibal Lecter-like cell where he'd spend his entire life in, though Ryuk would of course kill him as he did in the final episode/manga of Deathnote when Light was found out that he was Kira. As far as I'm concerned, criminals should be kept in prison. If the prisons start getting overcrowed, make more prisons. If it's becoming more expensive, feed them cheaper food. Punishment doesn't always have to fit the crime, because if we have to try to be a better people, we must not submit to our sinful instincts, including the desire to get rid of those who threaten us or each other with a threat of death or misfortune.
In the words of Near in the final episode of Deathnote, Light is nothing more than a multiple serial killer with a god-complex, who posesses the most destructive murder weapon in history. Nothing more, nothing less.
I'll get off my soap box now.
... My god OP, your spelling could cause a miscarriage, I swear... Do pay some attention to that, think of the children... Anyways...
On the other hand, he is a megalomaniac trying to become a god... He does kill an innocent person or two during his campaign raising the question, what is he really capable of? He is only human after all. Can someone really be trusted with that much power?
Then we got L Lawliet, Hideki Ryuga, Ryuzaki, Eraldo Coil, and heavens knows what other names. His purpose is equally noble, he shares Light's view of a world without crime, but he goes about it the opposite direction. He sees anyone who tries to take the law on his own hands as just another part of the problem. One can definitely see the point he makes. After all, isn't taking the law on their own hands what makes a criminal in the first place?
On the other hand, he certainly has no problem using more "shady" approaches, like torturing a little girl... And certainly his rigid, downright obsessive, following of the law can't be too good. After all, if the law was meant to be mechanical and absolute we wouldn't have judges or juries.
And even by the end of the anime you never know who was right.
See, the point is... It's all ambiguous. It makes you think. And that's what makes it excellent for me. The world we live in is one of relatives, not absolutes. There is no such a thing as "good" or "evil", regardless of what we want to believe in, and this anime/manga does an excellent job of exemplifying that.
Was more than that. Certainly there's the point that power corrupts, but ultimately the point of the anime was the ambiguity of morality. Is Light (Lighto? Righto? The translations are split, but the most common seems to be Light, so we'll go with that) really bad? Sure we may not agree with his means, but we can't say we don't empathize with his goal. Sure, by the end of the show he's a complete megalomaniac, but from the start his intentions are noble: stop crime, injustice. Certainly any of us at one point or another in our lives felt some douchebag got off easy. Some rapist that was acquitted on a technicality. A cold-blood murderer who got a sentence way too lenient for us. Someone who purposely ruined someone else's life simply because they could. Boy, wouldn't it feel good to kill him? You can say no, but you'll be lying.Ultrajoe said:
On the other hand, he is a megalomaniac trying to become a god... He does kill an innocent person or two during his campaign raising the question, what is he really capable of? He is only human after all. Can someone really be trusted with that much power?
Then we got L Lawliet, Hideki Ryuga, Ryuzaki, Eraldo Coil, and heavens knows what other names. His purpose is equally noble, he shares Light's view of a world without crime, but he goes about it the opposite direction. He sees anyone who tries to take the law on his own hands as just another part of the problem. One can definitely see the point he makes. After all, isn't taking the law on their own hands what makes a criminal in the first place?
On the other hand, he certainly has no problem using more "shady" approaches, like torturing a little girl... And certainly his rigid, downright obsessive, following of the law can't be too good. After all, if the law was meant to be mechanical and absolute we wouldn't have judges or juries.
And even by the end of the anime you never know who was right.
After L dies and "Kira" takes over, crime rates go down immensely. Hard to say that was a bad thing... Hard to say it wasn't worth it at all... But by the time Light dies, he's certainly sounding like a complete tyrant. He's putting himself in the position of a GOD. How long till he started killing anyone who dared oppose him?
See, the point is... It's all ambiguous. It makes you think. And that's what makes it excellent for me. The world we live in is one of relatives, not absolutes. There is no such a thing as "good" or "evil", regardless of what we want to believe in, and this anime/manga does an excellent job of exemplifying that.
Hey, he created a perfect world - I see near as the villain for plunging the world back into crime and evil.
The bastard.
Plus I'm all for vigilante justice.
Light went a bit too creepy towards the end, though.
The bastard.
Plus I'm all for vigilante justice.
Light went a bit too creepy towards the end, though.
Wow, this poll is a lot closer than I had imagined. I answered no, the deathnote ought to have been destroyed, but that really depends on how you frame the question.
In the anime, the power soon rushes to Light's head, and by the end he's killed dozens of innocent folks (including L, my favorite anime character ever) on top of hundreds of un-named criminals. And his motive seems to be less "cleansing the world of evil" than it is "appointing myself ruler of the world". I think he started out with benevolent intentions, but near the end he became no better (and in fact much worse) than all the people he set out to kill.
But in relation to the concept of capital punishment? I think some people deserve to die. But we can't have some self-appointed vigilante smiting people whenever he pleases.
Regardless of where you stand on the capital punishment debate, I think the scariest part of Death Note was that all the executions were decided and commited by one guy, and an arrogant and corruptable one at that.
In the anime, the power soon rushes to Light's head, and by the end he's killed dozens of innocent folks (including L, my favorite anime character ever) on top of hundreds of un-named criminals. And his motive seems to be less "cleansing the world of evil" than it is "appointing myself ruler of the world". I think he started out with benevolent intentions, but near the end he became no better (and in fact much worse) than all the people he set out to kill.
But in relation to the concept of capital punishment? I think some people deserve to die. But we can't have some self-appointed vigilante smiting people whenever he pleases.
Regardless of where you stand on the capital punishment debate, I think the scariest part of Death Note was that all the executions were decided and commited by one guy, and an arrogant and corruptable one at that.
Belive me or don't, but No.Caliostro said:
I thought the Anime went pretty far to point out exactly who was Evil. The colours and shading of the characters when juxtaposed, posture and positioning, hell, even the music was bent on making sure we were sure of when badness was running amok. The lesson here to me isn't that Evil is relative, but that Evil is always Evil and abhorrent no matter who does it and for what purpose. A work aiming for moral ambiguity wouldn't have used every subliminal tool in the book, short of a twirling moustache, to define black and white.Caliostro said:
I like the whole thing except for this. A lot of what kept me watching was seeing what truly genius thing Light (or L or to a lesser extent Near) would do next, so only having one piece of the Death Note seems like an oversight for many but pretty much ridiculously stupid for him, and conversely stupid for Near to assume he didn't have one-- you can argue he read Light like a book which he clearly did but somehow I don't think L would've taken that chance, in fact when he said it I was pretty sure it was going to be "grab other piece --> write down names --> Light lives or dies --> roll credits" and of course that didn't happen-- you could say he got overconfident but I would think he wouldn't after being so careful for around six years, so yeah, it's either stupidly careless or just stupidly stupid and so didn't fit. Also I wanted to see Ryuk, as Light had mentioned early on, go back to the shinigami realm and reinvigorate it or something.blakfayt said:
That much power has to be in good hands. You said he was smart so it is ok i guess...
He also could go mad with power.. much to dangerous, but if you have a fake ID or something and no one knows your real name, your easily immune, so there some holes in this "hero"
He also could go mad with power.. much to dangerous, but if you have a fake ID or something and no one knows your real name, your easily immune, so there some holes in this "hero"
Doesn't sound like a plain, and simple plot the way you put it.Julianking93 said:
(sorry for double post D: )
i perposely left the poll with only those 2 options,Lullabye said:
because even tho the reasons for a persons actions are rarely black and white, the choice of whether or not to kill those people is. its simple, you can either choose to kill them, or choose not to kill them. there is no grey area to this choice, there is only grey area to its moral decency
But he was claiming to be a god from the beginning. Didn't he always seem slightly crazy to you? He told Ryuk he wanted to create a new world in which he was the god the first time they met, and was such an egomaniac that he killed that FBI agent even though he wasn't under suspicion.Caliostro said:
That being said, at least he was willing to go all the way with the Death Note and not just use it for personal gain.
Yeah, I know EXACTLY what would happen to a child molester in GenPop--which is precisely why s/he would be out of his/her misery with death.Viivrabe said:
And, sorry, I threw "taxes" out of the window when discussing a hypothetical situation brought on by the subject of a bad manga/anime series. One person has the power to judge life or death over all? Hmm...no.