Poll: The Dragon Age 2 hate

[Sable Rhapsody]

*shrug* I loved both Dragon Age: Origins and Dragon Age 2. And I'm an avid PC RPG player.

But we are creatures of habit, and Dragon Age 2 changed a lot of things about the franchise. No wonder people got upset. So is the hate to be expected? Absolutely. There's nothing some BioWare fans love more than badmouthing their supposed favorite dev Is it deserved? Probably not.

 

[tycho0042]

I don't think it deserved ALL the hate it got. The combat system felt funky to me, the pace was much faster than the last game. That kind of put me off because it went from a bioware RPG to feeling like one of those cheap F2P korean MMORPGS.
The story was interesting enough but frankly, likes always with WRPGs you're either a paragon of humanity or a thrice-cursed baby eater. In this case you'll always been one of those to the other faction. There was zero room for working out a middle ground which kind of pissed me off. I ended up siding with the mages just because I couldn't stand the templar leader. call me strange but tyrannical psychotics tend to do that to me. But at the end the mage leader proves to be JUST as bad! What's more the one character I really liked ends up turning on me. I understand his motivation to hate mages but it would have been nice to be able to work on his prejudices so he was at least TOLERANT. Speaking of character foibles how about the fact that like all the characters now are sexually indifferent? I think it's great that people can hook up with the character they want to now but good grief. Anders got gay really fast for me which sucks because it made me not want to use him at all.
It's a small issue but what the holy hell happened to sten's race? Where did those horns come from?! Or perhaps is the Quinari just some collective "race" of people dedicated to the Qun?
When I got the mission to escort the Quinari mage I was really hoping he'd be a party member. He looked awesome I thought.

 

[SonOfVoorhees]

DA was awkward. The combat, characters, story and every other aspect was awkward. DA2 made things better but i think they went to far. What you needed was a middle ground between the two.

 

[Smokej]

the unpolished feel and subpar quality aside, Brent Knowles (ex Lead Designer) pretty much summed it up what was wrong with the transition the game took for an huge part of the fanbase:


"[...]Discussion on Dragon Age 2 began around this time and looking ahead I knew that I wasn?t going to be satisfied with what Dragon Age 2 would be. Party control/tactical combat are huge factors in my enjoyment of a role-playing game as is adopting the role of the hero (i.e., customizing my character). I was fairly certain Dragon Age would transition towards more of a Mass Effect experience, which while enjoyable is not the type of role-playing game I play. Could I be the lead designer on such a title? Certainly? though if I were going to work on a game adopting a set-in-stone protagonist I?d rather work on something lighter, like a shooter. [...]

 

[WaywardHaymaker]

Dragon Age 2 wasn't a bad game. It wasn't a good game, either. The story was separated into three parts with nothing to do with each other, the combat was... awkward, and the characters were largely forgettable. I think its main problem is how mediocre it is. It won't be remembered like the first one will be.

I get why people hate it, I just don't think it's worth the effort that goes into hating something when you can just forget about it.

 

[Riff Moonraker]

I dont think it deserved the hatred it was getting, but it did have its share of aggravation. There were alot of really good things about this game, that I really enjoyed, and Legacy (The first DLC) was REALLY enjoyable. My biggest issues were the cut and paste dungeons did get old, and I really did NOT like every male character hitting on Hawke when you began to talk to them. If you want to pursue a relationship with a character, have avenues you can take to do so, but dont make me feel like I am being a jerk to a character I like because I have to turn down their advances. It just wasnt handled the way it should have been, in my opinion.

I remember in Mass Effect, it actually took some work to pursue Ashley. She certainly didnt meet you, and say, "Hi, I'm Ashley. Thanks for saving me from the Geth! Want some?". It, like real life, would come off as awkward.

*EDIT* I almost forgot, I voted no. While it did have its issues, its still a very, very good game.

 

[spartandude]

In all honety i think it does deserve the hate and then some.

 

[The Lunatic]

I feel the dislike was pretty justified and to enforce that Bioware doesn't make the same mistake twice, the outcry was needed.

 

[honestdiscussioner]

I found the mage class if DA:O the most engaging ever, to be frank. I think those that find it boring simply built their character to be boring. I could start a new DA:O game with a mage that worked entirely differently than my last one. I focused on primal spells and healing, but had I gone entropy and blood magic instead of destruction it would have been a whole different deal. On top of that, the spell combos could be entirely devastating.

Now for DA:2, I agree the areas were repetitive. Even the non-caves. I don't agree about the story however. DA:O was not a personal tale, it was an epic, as you said. DA2 was a personal tale, one that as others have pointed out makes you more attached to the main character. There is nothing wrong with either of these approaches, they are just different from each other.

One other criticism that I'd add for DA2 though is the darkspawn. They looked awesome in DA:O, and for some reason they look entirely different . . . with perfect chainmail on their heads? They were mostly supposed to piece together their armor and now they just look like regular warriors that happened to go zombie. Tisk tisk.

All in all, DA2 isn't perfect, but is no where near worthy of the hatred it has received.

 

[Condiments]

I found the mage class if DA:O the most engaging ever, to be frank. I think those that find it boring simply built their character to be boring. I could start a new DA:O game with a mage that worked entirely differently than my last one. I focused on primal spells and healing, but had I gone entropy and blood magic instead of destruction it would have been a whole different deal. On top of that, the spell combos could be entirely devastating.

Now for DA:2, I agree the areas were repetitive. Even the non-caves. I don't agree about the story however. DA:O was not a personal tale, it was an epic, as you said. DA2 was a personal tale, one that as others have pointed out makes you more attached to the main character. There is nothing wrong with either of these approaches, they are just different from each other.

One other criticism that I'd add for DA2 though is the darkspawn. They looked awesome in DA:O, and for some reason they look entirely different . . . with perfect chainmail on their heads? They were mostly supposed to piece together their armor and now they just look like regular warriors that happened to go zombie. Tisk tisk.

All in all, DA2 isn't perfect, but is no where near worthy of the hatred it has received.

Planescape Torment is a masterful example of a personal tale. DA2's story nature being 'personal' doesn't excuse it from sloppy writing and a disjointed story. I'm all for less epic stories, but DA2 isn't the way to do it.

 

[Quellist]

I hated that they changed so much that was good. Origins seemed quite old school with its level of difficulty and skill customization.

Its the only console RPG that's given me total party wipes in the last few years, to the point I almost considered doing over from start, now IMO that's actually a good thing because games these days are way too easy and one that challenges me enough to make me consider actually abandoning a game I have put hours into to try not to make the same mistakes a second time, that's a Great Game.

In contrast Awakening just seemed like the 'Monkey Island Lite' mode version of a game. Things were just far too simple and uncomplicated, they even added talent resets which IMO destroys the concept of leveling choice, Lets face it cash was easy to come by and those resets were not exactly hard to get. In Origins i had to agonize over my choices, in Awakening it was 'yeah so, I'll try it this way and if i don't like it I'll just reset and try something different'

So I say Awakening deserves all the hate it gets.

 

[Feinei]

My Bioware obsessed friend put it like this:
DA:O: An improved version of KOTOR, an apology for Jade Empire.
DA:2: An improved version of Jade Empire.

By that logic Dragon Age 3:The Health Potion Manifestation, will be an upgrade of DA:O and an apology for DA2 , amiright?

 

[varulfic]

Now for DA:2, I agree the areas were repetitive. Even the non-caves. I don't agree about the story however. DA:O was not a personal tale, it was an epic, as you said. DA2 was a personal tale, one that as others have pointed out makes you more attached to the main character. There is nothing wrong with either of these approaches, they are just different from each other.

Y'know, that's actually what I like most about Dragon Age 2. A personal story makes sense in a bioware game, since theirs have always put characters first anyway, and focusing the entire game on one city, which was my home, actually made me care more about what was going to happen to it. In DA:O, you basically just wander from place to place sticking your nose in other people's business. In DA2, you were fighting for causes that personally affected you and your loved ones. I found it to be a refreshing change of pace, since pretty much every other fantasy rpg ever has been about an epic world saving quest.I wouldn't mind if future games went the same route actually.

Trouble is, I think the short develpment cycle shines through in the writing, which just isn't up to par with other bioware games. The characters aren't as likable or memorable as in the first, and their banter is often neither funny nor interesting. Hawke himself is an awful character no matter how you play him; his good responses feel insincere, his aggressive responses seldom manage to threaten anyone and only makes his seem oafish and his sarcastic quips are mostly misses. They really could have used some more time editing the dialogue imo.

 

[Death-of-Penguins]

I prefer Origins.

But I also LOVED Dragon Age 2. I don't understand half of the complaints. The level design, sure, but so many people hate the story... I fucking love it.

I was just going to say this, but someone beat me to it. I don't think I have anything to add, just that I agree with this- I liked Origins more, but I really enjoyed 2.

 

[The Heik]

What do you think? do you hate it? like it? if so what are your reason and do you think this game does'nt deserve the hate it gets? or are you one of the haters.

It doesn't deserve most of the hate it's getting. Personally Like it, as it had incredibly fun and smooth combat, great characters (Seriously, Varric Tethras is hands down, bar none my favourite character ever), subtle world-building, and a visual design system that for once actually gave a little bit of aesthetic freedom. The main issue that stems from the game is the lack of epicness that the game exudes. DA2 just dawdles around from event to event with no seemingly clear link (not helped at all by the several years of difference between them). You don't even see the two finale plot characters until the very end of Act 2 (of 3), so you don't really feel as if it's all linked together, which means more to game flow than you would think.

It's kind of the same issue that Bioware had with ME2. The game was better than it's predecessor in almost every aspect (with exception of a few very minor points) but because it didn't have the same oomph plot wise, people ragged on it quite a bit.

And yes, the warehouses and caves are samey, but I wouldn't have minded so much if they done three simple and easy to do things with them.

1)Change the lighting and tones. Almost every place is exactly the same visually, so even some small changes to the stuff inside or what the place is made of would help.

2)Made natural seals for all the unused entrances. Just putting up a stone barrier doesn't really cut it, as we still know there's a door there.

3)Don't show the parts of the current map that aren't accessible. It's just teasing the player with places they can't go to.

Seriously, this is stuff a first year university student could do with a few hours on the appropriate programs.

 

[Frankster]

After having played Alpha Protocol my opinion that some da2 hate is deserved is reinforced.
Alpha Protocol is an me2 type game that puts the choices and interactivity with bioware games to shame, they even share a similar intro-3 act-end structure. For all its flaws (and oh god, is there flaws, this game was released too soon) AP is a far worthier game with more creativity and worthiness then da2, even in the interesting characters department, it did not deserve to get sunk when da2 still achieved strong sales and extremely positive reviews it really didnt deserve due to it being a bioware game that was nicely hyped.

Da2 ain't a terrible game, there's fun to be had in it, but it's bioware's worst release of recent times.

 

[Athinira]

It's simple really. It's practically impossible for any "pros" a game can have to compensate for bad gameplay.

A game can have the most epic and interesting story/setting ever, but if the gameplay you have to go through to experience that story is bad/buggy (or in very rare cases: directly dreadful), then you might as well just save yourself the pain and watch a playthrough of the game on YouTube.

Dragon Age 2 is such a game in my eyes:
- Combat is repetetive and uninteresting, and at times also pretty "unfair"
- Your grip on events as a player feels rather loose, especially in the beginning of the game.
- Repetitive environments suck the interest out of playing it

As for whether or not Dragon Age 2 deserves all the hate it gets: No.

What definitely deserve hate, however, is the terrible reviewers who awarded the game a way higher score than it should have been awarded. That's part of the reason why people reviewbombed the game: They wanted to "compensate" for artificially inflated scores because the modern game reviewer all-too-often gets too hyped up to see a games flaws, which is often a result of their job. Reviewers who make a living of it often get tasked with playing through games that they don't like, and this makes them all the more appreciative of games that are "different" or just not downright terrible, and they forget that their reviews are going to be read by people who doesn't just get their games handed to them for free, and have to consider each investment they do. Even Yahtzee admits that he sometimes tends to overvalue games in his reviews when he has just been through a few titles that could be considered real sh*t.

Dragon Age 2 was reviewbombed because it was highly recommended by reviewers, and then gamers got a hold of it and found it that it was a big disappointment (hell, in the eyes of some people it was a complete pile of sh*t).

 

[Smooth Operator]

When your dog shits on the carpet you take a newspaper and smack him on the nose, it's the only way they will ever learn.

 

[Aircross]

Dragon Age: Origins set up a high bar, and the rushed job that is Dragon Age 2 just was not on par.

Sequels are supposed to be better.

 

[honestdiscussioner]

Planescape Torment is a masterful example of a personal tale. DA2's story nature being 'personal' doesn't excuse it from sloppy writing and a disjointed story. I'm all for less epic stories, but DA2 isn't the way to do it.

I disagree that the writing was either sloppy or disjointed. It was broken up into three sections, sure, but that doesn't mean it is disjointed. I found it to be an excellent story of a rise to the top.

Perhaps you can give us an example of where it was sloppy or disjointed.