Poll: The Dragon Age 2 hate
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I thought the gameplay was at least twice as well-done as Origins. Combat was many times better, more visceral, more enjoyable. The story was rather bland in DA2 though, and I hated all the repeated caves and running around the same city for hours on end.
I think DA2 is a more enjoyable game than Origins, if only because the actual gameplay is WAY better. Yea it has a lot of holes in the story and it cuts a lot of corners with the environments, but those are only minor blemishes I think.
I think DA2 is a more enjoyable game than Origins, if only because the actual gameplay is WAY better. Yea it has a lot of holes in the story and it cuts a lot of corners with the environments, but those are only minor blemishes I think.
The fact that none of the choices you make create any difference to the story except who's Hawke's boyfriend and girlfriend.
How regardless of which side you are on, you get the same battles and the same ending, just different dialogue.
How regardless of which side you are on, you get the same battles and the same ending, just different dialogue.
Ah, DA2. I never get tired of pointing out your flaws.
The reused environments were plain inexcusable and should have knocked a full star or point off of any review, anywhere. When a dev with plenty of money and support makes a conscious decision to cut an exceedingly obvious corner, it is every responsible critics' duty to call that shit out. This, incidentally, is why the Escapist reviewer rightfully catches so much flak about his bullshit perfect mark. When the devs do something very objectively wrong, you don't get to bypass it on account of personal preference - at least not if you want anyone to bother reading your reviews anymore. The reused environments were especially egregious given the game's attempt to reconcile them with an admittedly smaller scope.
Rock, Paper, Shotgun did a fantastic job pointing out the many narrative faults of DA2, including the "in media res" intro failure (this is supposed to be exciting, but it's just obnoxious), the ineffective deaths of relatively unknown characters for "dramatic weight" (I guess I was supposed to care about that person, but I'm still not 100% sure who the fuck he/she was), the intense sense of detachment resulting from multiple time leaps (how did I end up being this/here, and why didn't I get to enjoy that development in person?), and the overriding suspicion that none of your decisions actually impact the final outcome (they don't).
You can find plenty of write-ups on the flaws of the revamped combat system, but chief among them are: the limitations in party setup (only one real healer and only one real tank); the spawning or waves of enemies (aesthetically idiotic because they involve roof ninjas, mechanically idiotic because they turn the game from one of measured tactical deployment to "spam my cool downs right away so they're ready for the next wave of roof ninjas"); the animefication of combat (my dark and gritty fantasy game turned into a bunch of spiky haired super saiyans flying all over the battlefield with 10-ft swords); and, last but not least, a reduced emphasis on healing magic, crowd control, and other support functions (which would have been difficult to coordinate without the now-absent overhead view anyways, right?).
The gulf you're seeing between those who hate the game and those who like it can be drawn right between PC and console gamers. Those who played Origins on a PC had a vastly different and objectively superior experience compared to the console crowd. DA2 was a marked improvement over console Origins but a fairly massive downgrade from PC Origins. As a group that is pretty continually shafted by publishers, the PC gamers decided to make an example of DA2. They tried to sink the game with tons of negative feedback, and (judging by sales figures) it actually sorta worked. Here's hoping the next DA won't cut corners or leave a typically ignored (but obviously vocal and important) demographic out in the cold.
Edit: just an addendum: I see a lot of people saying DA2 just has way more visceral and exciting gameplay. For the record: Origins had mediocre *tactical* rpg gameplay. DA2 just switched the tactical bit to *hack-and-slash action*, but the mediocre tag is still there. There are plenty of action rpgs with loads better combat than DA2, just as there were a number of tactical rpgs that offered better gameplay than Origins. Thing is: they make plenty of action games every year. Adding one more, and a mediocre one at that, to those ranks isn't exactly what I'd qualify as an accomplishment. Robbing the world of a tactical rpg, though? In a world severely lacking for them? Yeah, that's the kind of bullshit that gets you hate.
And the hate isn't just bellyaching. Games have been transitioning to more streamlined, simplistic, and, well, auto-piloted experiences for years. This is happening because publishers think this is what people want. The only way to convince them otherwise is to raise sufficient stink and back it up with disappointing financial support. The supposedly extinct old-school demographic wised up, stopped taking its lumps, spoke out, didn't buy, and hopefully affected some change. If you think that's just bellyaching, you should probably try to separate your mouth from that corporate ass-gasket.
The reused environments were plain inexcusable and should have knocked a full star or point off of any review, anywhere. When a dev with plenty of money and support makes a conscious decision to cut an exceedingly obvious corner, it is every responsible critics' duty to call that shit out. This, incidentally, is why the Escapist reviewer rightfully catches so much flak about his bullshit perfect mark. When the devs do something very objectively wrong, you don't get to bypass it on account of personal preference - at least not if you want anyone to bother reading your reviews anymore. The reused environments were especially egregious given the game's attempt to reconcile them with an admittedly smaller scope.
Rock, Paper, Shotgun did a fantastic job pointing out the many narrative faults of DA2, including the "in media res" intro failure (this is supposed to be exciting, but it's just obnoxious), the ineffective deaths of relatively unknown characters for "dramatic weight" (I guess I was supposed to care about that person, but I'm still not 100% sure who the fuck he/she was), the intense sense of detachment resulting from multiple time leaps (how did I end up being this/here, and why didn't I get to enjoy that development in person?), and the overriding suspicion that none of your decisions actually impact the final outcome (they don't).
You can find plenty of write-ups on the flaws of the revamped combat system, but chief among them are: the limitations in party setup (only one real healer and only one real tank); the spawning or waves of enemies (aesthetically idiotic because they involve roof ninjas, mechanically idiotic because they turn the game from one of measured tactical deployment to "spam my cool downs right away so they're ready for the next wave of roof ninjas"); the animefication of combat (my dark and gritty fantasy game turned into a bunch of spiky haired super saiyans flying all over the battlefield with 10-ft swords); and, last but not least, a reduced emphasis on healing magic, crowd control, and other support functions (which would have been difficult to coordinate without the now-absent overhead view anyways, right?).
The gulf you're seeing between those who hate the game and those who like it can be drawn right between PC and console gamers. Those who played Origins on a PC had a vastly different and objectively superior experience compared to the console crowd. DA2 was a marked improvement over console Origins but a fairly massive downgrade from PC Origins. As a group that is pretty continually shafted by publishers, the PC gamers decided to make an example of DA2. They tried to sink the game with tons of negative feedback, and (judging by sales figures) it actually sorta worked. Here's hoping the next DA won't cut corners or leave a typically ignored (but obviously vocal and important) demographic out in the cold.
Edit: just an addendum: I see a lot of people saying DA2 just has way more visceral and exciting gameplay. For the record: Origins had mediocre *tactical* rpg gameplay. DA2 just switched the tactical bit to *hack-and-slash action*, but the mediocre tag is still there. There are plenty of action rpgs with loads better combat than DA2, just as there were a number of tactical rpgs that offered better gameplay than Origins. Thing is: they make plenty of action games every year. Adding one more, and a mediocre one at that, to those ranks isn't exactly what I'd qualify as an accomplishment. Robbing the world of a tactical rpg, though? In a world severely lacking for them? Yeah, that's the kind of bullshit that gets you hate.
And the hate isn't just bellyaching. Games have been transitioning to more streamlined, simplistic, and, well, auto-piloted experiences for years. This is happening because publishers think this is what people want. The only way to convince them otherwise is to raise sufficient stink and back it up with disappointing financial support. The supposedly extinct old-school demographic wised up, stopped taking its lumps, spoke out, didn't buy, and hopefully affected some change. If you think that's just bellyaching, you should probably try to separate your mouth from that corporate ass-gasket.
Yet there will be a Dragon Age 3, but no continuation to the Alpha Protocol franchise.Frankster said:
There is no justice in this world...
If by 'good' you mean 'most hilariously dull and generic story you could choose for a videogame', then I agree completely!Telemachus said:
I loved DA2. But compared to DA:O it's mediocre. If I compare it to the depth of Baldur's Gate 2 it would be horrendous.
DA2 had better combat and better graphics than Dragon Age Origins.
It did a whole lot of things wrong however:
- The story was too short, and was too open ended.
- The spawning of enemies was awful. You can't use any strategy against that. Enemies appearing from thin air really broke the immersion.
- The blatant reuse of the same dungeon designs.
- The fact I couldn't even equip another armor or skimpy outfit or undress the other characters.
- The overuse of blood and gore. I dig blood and gore, but it gets old really quick when everytime my rogue backstabs an enemy with two daggers, he explodes in a cloud of flesh and blood.
- No modding allowed.
- No nudity whatsoever.
- Everything that isn't money, potions or equipable is designated as trash. I find something wrong with that.
DA2 had better combat and better graphics than Dragon Age Origins.
It did a whole lot of things wrong however:
- The story was too short, and was too open ended.
- The spawning of enemies was awful. You can't use any strategy against that. Enemies appearing from thin air really broke the immersion.
- The blatant reuse of the same dungeon designs.
- The fact I couldn't even equip another armor or skimpy outfit or undress the other characters.
- The overuse of blood and gore. I dig blood and gore, but it gets old really quick when everytime my rogue backstabs an enemy with two daggers, he explodes in a cloud of flesh and blood.
- No modding allowed.
- No nudity whatsoever.
- Everything that isn't money, potions or equipable is designated as trash. I find something wrong with that.
Baldur's Gate would never sell well in today's world. It sold well back in the 90's because it's target demographic was D&D players, and that was largely when it was very popular with PC gamers.Maurice de la Rie said:
Dragon Age Origins was Bioware's attempt at compromising with Baldur's Gate players, but along with people who enjoy more modern rpgs.
Compared to something like say Neverwinter Nights which was more of a multiplayer title Origins had enough depth that most PC RPGs have.
Also the graphics were largely just different models, the hair was the same just with different textures and the user interface was different. Beyond this I did not see very much difference in the graphics. But then again I played both games on max on the PC and the graphics weren't exactly Crysis if you catch my drift.
But one of the reasons you dont like DA2 is because it doesn't have nudity? Really? Thats just... wow. I don't like Dragon Age 2 for many reasons but a lack of nudity is not one of them. Mostly because it sounds immature when I just type it out.
You've obviously not played very many rpgsGiantRaven said:
*badum-tish*
Dragon Age Origins's plotline was and still is a very large staple for games even today. The only reason people constantly mention it was because of it's attempt to be story driven. But other games like for instance Diablo which features a very similar "Save the world from evil" plotline people ignore since it was more focused on gameplay. Even though they feature largely the same storyline.
Are there good RPG stories? Yes, I like Planescape Torment as much as the next guy. But just picking on Origins because it kept it's story simple and not mentioning the better parts to it such as it's characters or it's stylistic choices isn't as fair.
Plus Mass Effect features a similar cliche, the only reason people don't notice it that much is due to the individual planet's stories and all the latin based alien names. Besides "Reapers" of course.
I personally preferred Origins's characters to it's plotline. Unlike most PC rpgs it featured character development, which whilst slight was still prevalent.
No I was not really serious about that one. I was serious about the no-modding part, though. I loved how in Origins I could get a better looking Morrigan and Leliana armor and better looking teeth (the originals looked yellow) by downloading a few mods. I miss that in 2.LordRoyal said:
And there's nothing wrong with nudity. Embrace your inner pervert!
I just don't really consider a lack of nudity a valid criticism in a PC RPG, especially when it's put in the same sentence as "The story was too short". In fact a profuse focus on nudity is a reoccurring selling point in today's marketing.Maurice de la Rie said:No I was not really serious about that one. I was serious about the not modding part, though. I loved how in Origins I could get a better looking Morrigan and Leliana and better looking teeth(originals looked yellow) by downloading a few mods. I miss that in 2.LordRoyal said:
And there's nothing wrong with nudity. Embrace your inner pervert!
Also there are texture mods for Dragon Age 2 on Nexus. Not all that many good ones, and not all that many equipment mods but they do exist. I still believe the only reason Origins had modding support was because Bioware was trying to appeal to the Baldur's Gate 2/Neverwinter Nights crowds which all had and still do have massive modding communities.
Yeah, that was kind of my point.LordRoyal said:
I'm not just picking on Origins, it's just that the topic of discussion here is based around the Dragon Age franchise.
Also, I know this is more of a personal point, but I didn't really like any of the characters/stylistic choices in Origins apart from the sections in Orzamarr.
I agree completely. The main plot of Mass Effect is by far the least interesting part of the game. Unlike Origins though, I actually really liked the characters and sub-plots. A lot.
That being said, you're probably right and I'm probably being overly harsh on Origins. It shows that I just plain couldn't get into it like I could the second game.
Agree ten fold with this, and didn't like it when said reviewer (and a defensive screen of pro da2 people agreeing with the guy so as to support their own stances on da2) then hid behind the defence of "its my opinion" "oh well you and i have different opinions, doesnt mean either are wrong" and all that hippie BS in the aftermatch. It's possible to love a game and recognize its flaws and even if game hits your personal sweetspots, as a professional reviewer it's still possible to give it a lesser score then you'd like if you at least try to remain objective. The guy failed hard in that department.FieryTrainwreck said:
This causes me no small amount of rage, sales of AP and Da2 should have been reversed if there is a gaming god. Evidently there isn't.GiantRaven said:
Nudity isn't that important to the story or gameplay or anything, I agree.LordRoyal said:
But I have to say it breaks the immersion for me when is see two lovers dry-humping each other with their plate-armour still on. But that's just my opinion.
I would like it if the devs would include an option in the menu where you can toggle nudity on or off, just like blood and gore or anti-aliasing for example.
I liked its faster combat and skill refinement. I hated the dungeon repetition and lack of travel, which make it obvious that it was a rushed game of limited scope. That is unlike Bioware.
As for the story, I loved it. The dialogue could have been better at times, but not too bad. But the story was really interesting. There was a lively, palpable web of conflicting politics and the stories of how pretty much every race, political and religious group in the game wanted to annihilate all others and was led by selfish, greedy people were indeed fascinating. It was much deeper than Origins's "shadow comes, gather people and fight it".
As for the story, I loved it. The dialogue could have been better at times, but not too bad. But the story was really interesting. There was a lively, palpable web of conflicting politics and the stories of how pretty much every race, political and religious group in the game wanted to annihilate all others and was led by selfish, greedy people were indeed fascinating. It was much deeper than Origins's "shadow comes, gather people and fight it".
It sucked.
I could not enjoy it at all... and I loved DA and was really excited and fought to defend it until it came out... and then they released a 10 dollar DLC without even an apology.
Also, I enjoyed DA:O a lot more, even if it was poorly balanced.
I could not enjoy it at all... and I loved DA and was really excited and fought to defend it until it came out... and then they released a 10 dollar DLC without even an apology.
Also, I enjoyed DA:O a lot more, even if it was poorly balanced.
