Poll: The Majora's Mask Debate
- Thread starter DeathSwitch109
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Oh my god! Someone said something bad about Majora's Mask!!
asdjoaifhosihedf~
I've got to admit, that MM is not only my favorite Zelda game but also my favorite game of all time.
At first I didn't like the time limit either, but as ExiusXavarus said: If you use the Inverted Song of Time, you get all the time you need to explore at your own pacing.
I think another major ciritcism is that the dungeons are lackluster and I tend to agree with that (I really hated the water one). But two things make up for that: Firstly, that the focus lies more on quests and character interaction which is amazing (Kafei's Quest!). And secondly: The Stone Tower Temple is amesome.
I really liked the mask mechanic, it gave the game much depth, but in the end my favorite part of MM is still the dark, lonly and desperate atmosphere and setting, and also the characters that really have meaning to them instead of just being cardboard cutouts.
asdjoaifhosihedf~
I've got to admit, that MM is not only my favorite Zelda game but also my favorite game of all time.
At first I didn't like the time limit either, but as ExiusXavarus said: If you use the Inverted Song of Time, you get all the time you need to explore at your own pacing.
I think another major ciritcism is that the dungeons are lackluster and I tend to agree with that (I really hated the water one). But two things make up for that: Firstly, that the focus lies more on quests and character interaction which is amazing (Kafei's Quest!). And secondly: The Stone Tower Temple is amesome.
I really liked the mask mechanic, it gave the game much depth, but in the end my favorite part of MM is still the dark, lonly and desperate atmosphere and setting, and also the characters that really have meaning to them instead of just being cardboard cutouts.
When I was younger I couldn't get into Majora's Mask because even with the songs that slowed time down, I felt really confined by the clock. It very well could have been a complex or anxiety thing, I dunno. I got back into it earlier this year or, possibly late last year and beat it for the first time, enjoying it quite a bit more than Skyward Sword (which is a weak compliment since I still can't say I like Skyward Sword at all).
Majora's Mask is in my bottom 3 Zelda games though because, while there is a lot of stuff to do, the time still feels like a constraint however at some point in your own personal completion you seem to be able to do any and, everything despite the day. There wasn't really a median period where I felt like a middle-weight, either I was oppressed by time or, able to do all.
Another thing I didn't like was the darkness of tone. Every transformation-mask you receive (except for Fierce Deity) is given to you by a dead/dying person (you notice how in the beginning and in the credits, there is a gnarled looking Deku Shrub?)
The biggest thing against MM for me though is Great Bay Temple. The Water Temple in Ocarina was somewhat annoying when it came to boot switching but the layout and, current mechanics of Great Bay Temple made that entire dungeon a tedious mind-fuck for me.
My favorite Zelda by the way is Link to the Past followed closely by Wind Waker and in third is actually Zelda 2: Adventures of Link.
Majora's Mask is in my bottom 3 Zelda games though because, while there is a lot of stuff to do, the time still feels like a constraint however at some point in your own personal completion you seem to be able to do any and, everything despite the day. There wasn't really a median period where I felt like a middle-weight, either I was oppressed by time or, able to do all.
Another thing I didn't like was the darkness of tone. Every transformation-mask you receive (except for Fierce Deity) is given to you by a dead/dying person (you notice how in the beginning and in the credits, there is a gnarled looking Deku Shrub?)
The biggest thing against MM for me though is Great Bay Temple. The Water Temple in Ocarina was somewhat annoying when it came to boot switching but the layout and, current mechanics of Great Bay Temple made that entire dungeon a tedious mind-fuck for me.
My favorite Zelda by the way is Link to the Past followed closely by Wind Waker and in third is actually Zelda 2: Adventures of Link.
I hated Majora's mask.
Take one of the best and most loved games ever created, a game that centres on exploration and then RUIN it by giving it a time-limit.
wtf were they thinking.
Worst of all though is the lack of save points. I don't have time to play 3 hours without break, and then do it all over again if i fuck up or run out of time.
Take one of the best and most loved games ever created, a game that centres on exploration and then RUIN it by giving it a time-limit.
wtf were they thinking.
Worst of all though is the lack of save points. I don't have time to play 3 hours without break, and then do it all over again if i fuck up or run out of time.
I consider it the greatest video-game ever made so far in our history. I think as far as creating a real, immersive and truly emotional experience for the player you can't really find anything better made and more uniquely crafted. The time mechanic appears to be an issue for some people but from a design point is was almost perfectly done and gives the player a rarely realized control off the world. To be perfectly honest I think the final seen of the runaway lover side-quest is one of the greatest simulated experience I have ever had.
It was and still is an amazing game, far better than Ocarina of Time ever could be. However, much like Ocarina it's also outshined by pretty much every title that came afterwards. The only reason it really holds up as a personal favourite is that it had a surprisingly morbid setting and the NPCs got treated like actual characters with their own stories and development.
Other games I quite liked include Link to the Past (best of the 2D ones), Oracle of Ages, Wind Waker, and Skyward Sword. That is despite SS's terrible minigames and iffy swordplay. I'd like Twilight Princess better if they hadn't shoehorned that final boss in and made a better effort to flesh out the characters besides Midna and Zant. Zelda was still pretty wooden, though I admit Link had a fair bit of personality.
Other games I quite liked include Link to the Past (best of the 2D ones), Oracle of Ages, Wind Waker, and Skyward Sword. That is despite SS's terrible minigames and iffy swordplay. I'd like Twilight Princess better if they hadn't shoehorned that final boss in and made a better effort to flesh out the characters besides Midna and Zant. Zelda was still pretty wooden, though I admit Link had a fair bit of personality.
I was one of those turned off by the time mechanic but once I started playing MM it didn't bother me nearly as bad.The inverted song of time helps ease frustration. I can see how it might bug people but this is one of my favorite Zelda(second only to Link to the Past). It's dark tone,the focus on sidequests,the depth of it's world and the sense of dread.However while I like how the dungeons look I never really enjoyed going through them.
Adding to that, something that added to the oppressive feeling of the game; No matter who you helped, how many people you helped, however many times you helped them, none of it would make even the slightest difference in the end. Once you reversed time, everything would be undone. Those poor folk would once again be distraught and their problems unresolved once again. No matter what you do, this depressive state is what you return to once all it said and done, until you finally defeat Majora.Weresquirrel said:
And even then? Surely you wouldn't have had the chance to help every single person before the final confrontation with Majora. Even once you'd saved the day, there will still be some that have to go without a savior.
On an off note, a friend and I were looking at the Bomber Notebook and we noticed that if you timed everything perfectly, you might actually be able to help every single person in Termina that you can help in that single span of 3 days. It was a challenge I was going to undertake before I ended up playing other stuff.
I've almost cleared Ocarina of Time. I'll be booting up Majora's Mask immediately after that. I'll get back to you later, I guess...
From what I can tell, I think it may very well be the best. Better than Ocarina of Time, better than Wind-Waker, better than A Link to the Past, better than Twilight Princess, better than Skyward Sword. At least... that's what I've gathered. It's dared to go dark, creepy, and downright unsettling in a way no one would have expected possible. No Gannon(dorf), no Zelda (save for a few seconds in a flashback), and no Hyrule. Just you, a bunch of returning characters you've come to know and/or be creeped out by, and the Moon! Oh, and some dead guys in masks that let you go all Ben 10 on yourself. Can't forget those guys, too.
From what I can tell, I think it may very well be the best. Better than Ocarina of Time, better than Wind-Waker, better than A Link to the Past, better than Twilight Princess, better than Skyward Sword. At least... that's what I've gathered. It's dared to go dark, creepy, and downright unsettling in a way no one would have expected possible. No Gannon(dorf), no Zelda (save for a few seconds in a flashback), and no Hyrule. Just you, a bunch of returning characters you've come to know and/or be creeped out by, and the Moon! Oh, and some dead guys in masks that let you go all Ben 10 on yourself. Can't forget those guys, too.
It was certainly different to the others, I'll give it that. Like many others, I hated feeling rushed through it cus of the stupid time travel mechanics. Even when it was slowed down, it felt like it was rushed. And if I'm meant to be immersed in it, then its depressing since every 3 days in-game, I have to re-set and erase all I've done aside from getting a mask.
Another thing is the masks. It would've been amazing if the masks had more practical uses. It would've given me more motivation to get them all. The only reason I did it anyway was cus I wanted the Fierce Deity. The bunny hood was great; run faster & jump further. Sadly, there weren't many others that proved anywhere near as useful as that. The vast majority were only used to get a heart piece/container and their purpose ended there. No mask for a faster/different fighting style, no mask for scaling walls, no masks for the improvement of individual items (fire several arrows with the bow at a time, etc). Those ideas were just me in the past few minutes; I'm sure Nintendo could've come up with some awesome ideas in all the time they took to make it. But no; lets make most of them just give you more health.
Having said all that, I did like how the story was very different to the normal Zelda story. In fact, Zelda herself only appears once and in a flashback and Ganon doesn't exist. Skull Kid and the Mask were pretty cool villains and I did like Termina to explore for a change instead of Hyrule. The side quests would've made it a lot better if there was more reason to go and do them but sadly the rewards were poor and you didn't even get the satisfaction of feeling like you made a difference to the in-game world since you had to rewind time constantly.
So all in all - I didn't really like it as much as the others but it was definitely worth playing at the very least.
Another thing is the masks. It would've been amazing if the masks had more practical uses. It would've given me more motivation to get them all. The only reason I did it anyway was cus I wanted the Fierce Deity. The bunny hood was great; run faster & jump further. Sadly, there weren't many others that proved anywhere near as useful as that. The vast majority were only used to get a heart piece/container and their purpose ended there. No mask for a faster/different fighting style, no mask for scaling walls, no masks for the improvement of individual items (fire several arrows with the bow at a time, etc). Those ideas were just me in the past few minutes; I'm sure Nintendo could've come up with some awesome ideas in all the time they took to make it. But no; lets make most of them just give you more health.
Having said all that, I did like how the story was very different to the normal Zelda story. In fact, Zelda herself only appears once and in a flashback and Ganon doesn't exist. Skull Kid and the Mask were pretty cool villains and I did like Termina to explore for a change instead of Hyrule. The side quests would've made it a lot better if there was more reason to go and do them but sadly the rewards were poor and you didn't even get the satisfaction of feeling like you made a difference to the in-game world since you had to rewind time constantly.
So all in all - I didn't really like it as much as the others but it was definitely worth playing at the very least.
I haven't played it but the fact that it's timed puts me off too. I don't like it when the entire game is timed as I don't feel like I'm having fun and I feel too under pressure. Same reason I can't play Dead Rising for very long. Sometimes I just wanna do my own thing and explore - I feel like you can't if it's timed.
Your poll options should just be "Yes" "No preference" "No". Never have a poll option encompass more than one question. I'm voting "No", but I quite like Majora's Mask. I just don't think it works so well as a Zelda game. The dungeons and bosses are the worst in the series, all tedium and frustration with super easy and equally boring bosses. Stone Tower is my least favorite dungeon in all the Zelda games.
What Majora's Mask does well is something the series is typically weak in: A well-characterized world with great side quests. As much as I hate Stone Tower, the area leading up to it is fantastic (not including the section where you alternate playing the "Elegy of Emptiness" and hookshotting up to the next area over and over a dozen times. That sucks). The masks are a really cool addition too.
But what I really look for in a Zelda game is great dungeons and bosses. That Majora's Mask is (for me) the weakest game in the series in those two areas really hurts it, no matter how great the rest of the game is.
What Majora's Mask does well is something the series is typically weak in: A well-characterized world with great side quests. As much as I hate Stone Tower, the area leading up to it is fantastic (not including the section where you alternate playing the "Elegy of Emptiness" and hookshotting up to the next area over and over a dozen times. That sucks). The masks are a really cool addition too.
But what I really look for in a Zelda game is great dungeons and bosses. That Majora's Mask is (for me) the weakest game in the series in those two areas really hurts it, no matter how great the rest of the game is.
Eh, the time thing ruined it for me too. I know you can slow down time, but that barely helps because the problem isn't that you don't have enough time, the problem is that you have a bunch of events occurring throughout time, and you can easily miss an event, or you end up having to wait for an event to start, then you get into repeatedly using the song of double time, the song that passes a day, the reverse song of time, and the song of time. I also hate having to schedule my time so as to make sure I'm doing the right quest on time, and that I'm never in the middle of a quest or in a dungeon when time runs out.
Plus it's a real piss off that you lose all "collectible" items like arrows and bombs when you reset time, because then you have to spend time collecting those before you set off again.
It also only has 4 main dungeons and is sadly short ignoring the side quests. (Yes I know the side quests are supposed to be the meat of the game, but I found most of them tedious)
Personally I think LTTP was the best Zelda, with OOT coming in close second. I don't find either of them any of the "greatest games of all time" though. They're good, great even, but not the best.
Plus it's a real piss off that you lose all "collectible" items like arrows and bombs when you reset time, because then you have to spend time collecting those before you set off again.
It also only has 4 main dungeons and is sadly short ignoring the side quests. (Yes I know the side quests are supposed to be the meat of the game, but I found most of them tedious)
Personally I think LTTP was the best Zelda, with OOT coming in close second. I don't find either of them any of the "greatest games of all time" though. They're good, great even, but not the best.
i think i typed too much and it's not letting me post, so SORRY about multiple posts, but it's the only way to say all i have to say.
i am by far not a major LoZ fan. i enjoy the games, but i'm admittedly not as into it as some of my friends are. and hell. the only real reason i wanted to play Twilight Princess is because Link transforms into a Wolf which was awesome as hell (disk got scratched and i can't finish it BOO!)
anyway my friend would not let me play it until i beat OoT, but excused me from playing MM (i'm playing it now because i'm REALLY BORED) but even putting what i've played of MM and TP, and my experience with OoT, i have to say i do NOT enjoy the "3D" LoZs as much as the overhead ones. Link to the Past and Oracle of Seasons/Ages are BY FAR my FAVOURITE of the series. Link to the Past was the first GAME i ever played (followed shortly by Pokemon Blue) and i may be a bit biased on that front as a result, but i think it is the best LoZ game i played and i would love to play it again. i even bought the re-release on the GBA when it came out. (i did not enjoy Link's Awakening however... something about it didn't sit right with me. and i think i got stuck somewhere shortly after the halfway point. it just didn't engage me like Season/Ages did.
i am by far not a major LoZ fan. i enjoy the games, but i'm admittedly not as into it as some of my friends are. and hell. the only real reason i wanted to play Twilight Princess is because Link transforms into a Wolf which was awesome as hell (disk got scratched and i can't finish it BOO!)
anyway my friend would not let me play it until i beat OoT, but excused me from playing MM (i'm playing it now because i'm REALLY BORED) but even putting what i've played of MM and TP, and my experience with OoT, i have to say i do NOT enjoy the "3D" LoZs as much as the overhead ones. Link to the Past and Oracle of Seasons/Ages are BY FAR my FAVOURITE of the series. Link to the Past was the first GAME i ever played (followed shortly by Pokemon Blue) and i may be a bit biased on that front as a result, but i think it is the best LoZ game i played and i would love to play it again. i even bought the re-release on the GBA when it came out. (i did not enjoy Link's Awakening however... something about it didn't sit right with me. and i think i got stuck somewhere shortly after the halfway point. it just didn't engage me like Season/Ages did.
Wind Waker i think was the weaker of the games that i've played. and could really have benefited from some changes. sometimes it was vague at best in telling you what to do. naval combat was severely hampered, upgrades were gotten far too easily and no achievement was ever really felt. it was really grind-y compared to the LoZ games i hold dear. ESPECIALLY with the "treasure under the sea" thing.
(it also made me think that, since you're not born with the Triforce of Courage and instead have to find and assemble it [padding anyone?] you're NOT the "fated hero" but instead just some kid who stepped up when the world needed him. making me think Link isn't a name [since all the games let you choose your name] but rather a title, but i REALLY don't think we should get into that. that's a mess waiting to happen)
MM so far is really kinda annoying and feels like something designed for LoZ experts, or those people who have a "trial and error" mindset with the whole time limit thing. you're not as free to explore and search out everything and talk to everyone as every other game. "oh didn't finish the trading questline? well too bad, guess you weren't efficient enough because time is UP! and you gotta start ALL over!" and it was really kinda daunting at first because you only GET the Ocarina of Time back near the end of the time limit your first run! the whole time you have the sense of being rushed under an arbitrary time limit. and after a certain amount of time passes you're starting to think "well crap i don't have a way to reset my time limit yet, and i'm ALREADY nearly out of time. hell i don't even have any useful items yet and i'm still a friggin PLANT! there's no way i can finish this" without even really hinting much that you have to ALMOST fail in order to progress. it's feeling like more of a chore than an epic adventure as the Hero of Time.
OoT was good though and i liked the time mechanics. (some of them were annoying like how you can't use some items as an adult/kid that you could use perfectly in real life) and it kinda reminded me of Ages in that sense. (i don't know which came first though) i just don't really like how the exploration and combat is in the 3rd person camera sense. and just much prefer the mechanic in the overhead camera.
take what i say with a grain of salt of course, i'm not the most avid LoZ fan and there's a lot of it i don't know. i'm just voicing my views on the series. it's a game i grew up with and i hold it dear all the same, but you guys likely know more about it than i.
(it also made me think that, since you're not born with the Triforce of Courage and instead have to find and assemble it [padding anyone?] you're NOT the "fated hero" but instead just some kid who stepped up when the world needed him. making me think Link isn't a name [since all the games let you choose your name] but rather a title, but i REALLY don't think we should get into that. that's a mess waiting to happen)
MM so far is really kinda annoying and feels like something designed for LoZ experts, or those people who have a "trial and error" mindset with the whole time limit thing. you're not as free to explore and search out everything and talk to everyone as every other game. "oh didn't finish the trading questline? well too bad, guess you weren't efficient enough because time is UP! and you gotta start ALL over!" and it was really kinda daunting at first because you only GET the Ocarina of Time back near the end of the time limit your first run! the whole time you have the sense of being rushed under an arbitrary time limit. and after a certain amount of time passes you're starting to think "well crap i don't have a way to reset my time limit yet, and i'm ALREADY nearly out of time. hell i don't even have any useful items yet and i'm still a friggin PLANT! there's no way i can finish this" without even really hinting much that you have to ALMOST fail in order to progress. it's feeling like more of a chore than an epic adventure as the Hero of Time.
OoT was good though and i liked the time mechanics. (some of them were annoying like how you can't use some items as an adult/kid that you could use perfectly in real life) and it kinda reminded me of Ages in that sense. (i don't know which came first though) i just don't really like how the exploration and combat is in the 3rd person camera sense. and just much prefer the mechanic in the overhead camera.
take what i say with a grain of salt of course, i'm not the most avid LoZ fan and there's a lot of it i don't know. i'm just voicing my views on the series. it's a game i grew up with and i hold it dear all the same, but you guys likely know more about it than i.