Poll: The State of Minecraft
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What tomvw meant was, for example, mods that make a single block of diamond ore drop 100 diamonds, or a tool that can instantly destroy any block, or even TooManyItems, which is basically an ingame inventory editor. Sure all of these mods have their uses, especially the last one, it helps so much when you want to try something out, but if Notch were to add them to the game, it would incredibly imbalanced.Jinx_Dragon said:
Ahhh, economical unbalancing then.DasDestroyer said:
I can see those mods never getting implemented but honestly these ones are more like 'cheats' then mods. Such things would ruin the economy of a game that already struggles in this field, as it is not yet complete.
I didn't even think we where considering such mods, given the obvious 'cheating' nature of them.
Well, imbalancing means adding something that, when used/applied, gives the user a significant advantage in an important aspect of the game. In FPS' you need kills, so a gun that can switch from an ordinary one to one shoots a projectile which kills everything in its blast radius *cough*noobtube*cough* would break the balance, while in Minecraft most of the game is about collecting/gathering, so things that allow you to do that easier would break the balance.Jinx_Dragon said:
There's also things that are borderline imbalanced, like I remember an outdated mod having tools which were as fast and as strong as stone, but never, ever broke. Some may consider it imbalanced, others may not.
As for physics/aesthetics mods, well, I honestly can't think of some way to make them imbalanced, though thats not to say there is no way. But I personally like mods that actually add something meaningful to the game, rather than just the aesthetics, and I don't know of very many physics mods.
captcha: wand pernmers
I think balance isn't the right word to use for this case, but there's a particular pacing and aesthetic to the game that Notch works to preserve, that mods can feel free to blow out of the water.Jinx_Dragon said:
For example, Notch has stated that he doesn't want the game to move much further than it is now as far as technology level goes, so while mods can feel free to add in guns, airplanes, cars, etc. These break the feel of the game that Notch is going for, so they will never be included in the main game.
Now I'm one of the first to criticize Minecraft, however saying Notch shouldn't develop it anymore is absurd. He made the original game. Even if you don't agree with the direction he's taking it in saying he shouldn't be making it anymore is ridiculous, especially when the best argument you have to support it is just that modders are able to do more than him. However, as has been pointed out many times already modding the game is a lot easier than actually making it plus Notch is doing a bunch of behind the scenes crap. I'm not trying to undermine the modders, but I guarantee if you handed Minecraft over to any of them they wouldn't be able to do a better job.
That's not to say Notch is flawless. I have a lot of problems with how he runs the company. I think the biggest issue with Mojang is how they appear to be severely understaffed. Notch keeps the team ridiculously small, even though the game has expanded into a behemoth. I don't know why Notch refuses to hire more people but the game is suffering from it, since they apparently can't even spare the manpower to test a release to see if the most basic things don't break it. If I had to make a guess it would be that Notch fears that hiring more people will cause his influence over the project to decrease. He's expressed before that he doesn't like looking at mods becuase they alter his view of Minecraft. He clearly does not like it when people change what he views to be the true Minecraft experience. It's just a guess, but it's the only explanation I can think of for why he doesn't hire more people. Or maybe he just doesn't want to pay them.
Regardless, I think Minecraft is severely understaffed and is suffering as a result. Notch should still remain in charge but unless he makes some big changes I can't see the game shaping up to be an acceptable product by the release date.
EDIT: Seriously, who codes Minecraft aside from Jeb and Notch? If there are other coders they are mad minor compared to those two.
That's not to say Notch is flawless. I have a lot of problems with how he runs the company. I think the biggest issue with Mojang is how they appear to be severely understaffed. Notch keeps the team ridiculously small, even though the game has expanded into a behemoth. I don't know why Notch refuses to hire more people but the game is suffering from it, since they apparently can't even spare the manpower to test a release to see if the most basic things don't break it. If I had to make a guess it would be that Notch fears that hiring more people will cause his influence over the project to decrease. He's expressed before that he doesn't like looking at mods becuase they alter his view of Minecraft. He clearly does not like it when people change what he views to be the true Minecraft experience. It's just a guess, but it's the only explanation I can think of for why he doesn't hire more people. Or maybe he just doesn't want to pay them.
Regardless, I think Minecraft is severely understaffed and is suffering as a result. Notch should still remain in charge but unless he makes some big changes I can't see the game shaping up to be an acceptable product by the release date.
EDIT: Seriously, who codes Minecraft aside from Jeb and Notch? If there are other coders they are mad minor compared to those two.
I agree, Notch simply struck lucky with Minecraft and now it has gotten bigger than his lackluster abilities.
I like the aesthetic additions because it is a game where crafting is one of the elements in the very name. There is a lack of items you can actually craft and decorate your buildings with at this point in time, so having some will just add 'flavor' to the game. While it would be nice to have chairs you can sit in, or tables you can put real items on (both done in mods) just having more stuff to decorate your buildings with would be a nice addition to the game and is not really that difficult to implement.DasDestroyer said:
It doesn't have to be that extreme, I seem to remember a mod that introduced obsidian tools that were very durable. But since you can basically generate an infinite amount of obsidian using buckets of lava and water, you can make an infinite amount of tools with minimal effort (unlike diamond). It's often little things like this that mess up the flow of the vanilla game.Jinx_Dragon said:
I will admit that more cosmetic items (like furniture) wouldn't hurt and wouldn't affect balance. I prefer exploration, mining and finding dungeons over building personally (that's why I was really disappointed when the adventure update got pushed back).
I think you need to cut him some slack. I will agree with you that patch's for Minecraft don't come out as quickly as they could. But like you just said there is plenty of mods for Minecraft, if there's something you want there's most likely a mod for it. So if you don't want to have to wait for Notch to do a patch, just download a mod.
The irony of Minecraft is that updates would be pretty quick on the uptake back before everyone bought it. So lots of people buy the game because of the seemingly limitless potential... What no one saw coming was that buying the game would slow down development almost to a halt. XD
I would agree with you were it not for one simple fact...
It doesn't matter how fast Notch releases new stuff, the old stuff is still DAMN GOOD!
It doesn't matter how fast Notch releases new stuff, the old stuff is still DAMN GOOD!
You know...um... I don't really care about this argument, because, people can have whatever opinions they want, but I just wanted to say: This thread totally makes me want to go and play minecraft. See ya
Here's food for thought.
I'm writing an LP on the Escapist. I have a lot of things going on right now, and the writing is going slowly. As in, VERY slowly. And I feel worse about it every day I go without releasing something. I have a small, but dedicated-ish fanbase for this LP (as in, dedicated enough to join a user group to keep track of it). I'm pretty sure my inconsistent and ever-delayed updates piss off my readers no end, but since it's really nothing more than a (hopefully) entertaining article that updates once every three days to three months, no one has complained about the delays yet.
Now, what do you think I'd do if two or three of my readers suddenly up and said "SCREW YOU, YOU SLOW AND INCONSISTENT BASTARD! GIVE THE LP TO ME, I COULD WRITE IT WAAAAAY BETTER AND FASTER THAN YOU!", what do you think my response would be?
I'd close the LP permanently. End of. No more Robert the Magical Dark Elf Thief. Gone.
They would have not motivated me. They would have not encouraged me to reach my potential. They would have simply wrecked everything.
Now, let's transfer over to Notch. The only differences are that it's an entertaining GAME that updates every three hours to three months, it has a wider, more dedicated fanbase, and you spent $10-$20 on it months ago. (If you're going to use "I paid for it!" as a legitimate argument, you need a quick lesson in budgeting and dollar-to-hour of entertainment value.)
Unless Notch is the thickest-skinned and most benevolent man in existence (considering the enormous hatedumb he has), your complaints are ONLY SLOWING HIM DOWN. I bet he's regretted making Minecraft several times now. I bet he reads these threads, then goes and does not-Minecraft-coding for a few hours. I bet that if everyone shut up (or AT LEAST started using one single standard instead of double-standards or multiple conflicting standards), he'd actually code and innovate FASTER than he does now.
Fortunately, there's no way for me to lose that last bet, because people like you will never stop fussing about this.
(As a side note, I prefer him to work his ideas thoroughly and design them carefully and slowly, for the same reason I don't use mods - only Notch's editions, I find, really "fit" the Minecraft aesthetic.)
I'm writing an LP on the Escapist. I have a lot of things going on right now, and the writing is going slowly. As in, VERY slowly. And I feel worse about it every day I go without releasing something. I have a small, but dedicated-ish fanbase for this LP (as in, dedicated enough to join a user group to keep track of it). I'm pretty sure my inconsistent and ever-delayed updates piss off my readers no end, but since it's really nothing more than a (hopefully) entertaining article that updates once every three days to three months, no one has complained about the delays yet.
Now, what do you think I'd do if two or three of my readers suddenly up and said "SCREW YOU, YOU SLOW AND INCONSISTENT BASTARD! GIVE THE LP TO ME, I COULD WRITE IT WAAAAAY BETTER AND FASTER THAN YOU!", what do you think my response would be?
I'd close the LP permanently. End of. No more Robert the Magical Dark Elf Thief. Gone.
They would have not motivated me. They would have not encouraged me to reach my potential. They would have simply wrecked everything.
Now, let's transfer over to Notch. The only differences are that it's an entertaining GAME that updates every three hours to three months, it has a wider, more dedicated fanbase, and you spent $10-$20 on it months ago. (If you're going to use "I paid for it!" as a legitimate argument, you need a quick lesson in budgeting and dollar-to-hour of entertainment value.)
Unless Notch is the thickest-skinned and most benevolent man in existence (considering the enormous hatedumb he has), your complaints are ONLY SLOWING HIM DOWN. I bet he's regretted making Minecraft several times now. I bet he reads these threads, then goes and does not-Minecraft-coding for a few hours. I bet that if everyone shut up (or AT LEAST started using one single standard instead of double-standards or multiple conflicting standards), he'd actually code and innovate FASTER than he does now.
Fortunately, there's no way for me to lose that last bet, because people like you will never stop fussing about this.
(As a side note, I prefer him to work his ideas thoroughly and design them carefully and slowly, for the same reason I don't use mods - only Notch's editions, I find, really "fit" the Minecraft aesthetic.)
Thing is, a normal person would expand their company in response to such success. To accommodate their now much larger fanbase (and as a result more taxed servers), you should be hiring more people. Notch however hires people at an incredibly slow rate and including him there are only 2 major coders working on the project that I know of. Development would be going a lot faster if Notch wasn't so resistant to letting his company grow.BlueFishie said:
What on earth is the Minecraft aesthetic? This is something I do not understand at all. Take for example pistons; Notch demanded he be altered becuase he thought they weren't fantasy enough. Yet dynamite as a decisively modern design. Some things are fantasy, some things are not, which suggests a lack of a proper aesthetic. Yer apparently to Notch there is one. I just have no idea what it is because so many things conflict.lacktheknack said:
I remember the other thread on this... and I found the relevant tweet on why 1.7 broke the game so badly!Internet Kraken said:
<link=http://twitter.com/#!/notch/status/86441719628963840>Notch thought a last-second tweak would be a grand idea.
As a computer science student, I can testify that even changing the name of a near-useless variable can mess up a program beyond recognition. Basically, Notch had a derp moment right before update release.
Was this Notch's fault? Yes. Was it the result of having bad pre-release testing? No. The moral here is "Don't tweak your software right before release". The 1.7.1 release was the ORIGINAL 1.7 release before Notch's derp moment, and it worked grandly. 1.7.2 was for some minor hidden bugs.
So pre-beta testing isn't really the problem, they typically put out perfectly functional releases for the beta testers to thoroughly break apart and find the littler bugs.
Just thought I'd tell you, so the 1.7 epic derp doesn't hurt your opinion of Mojang too badly.
Apparently I'm on the same wavelength as Notch, because I immediately agreed with his piston design, and I passed up on the original piston mod because it didn't fit what I had in mind.Internet Kraken said:
http://thumbnails.truveo.com/0020/F1/37/F1373EBAD129FC28304340_Large.jpg
There's the mod piston.
http://s2.n4g.com/media/11/news/785000/789215_1.jpg
Here's the vanilla piston.
Actually, now that I think about it, I hate Notch's design for iron/gold/diamond blocks, so maybe that's the problem - the mod piston looks too much like an iron block.
I have no idea why the dynamite block doesn't bother me. It just fits.
It fits because you're used to it. Minecraft doesn't (or so I thought) have a defined aesthetic, so the only reason anything looks right to us is becuase it's what we are used to seeing. It seems that Notch does have some weird visual plan for Minecraft and slightly modified iron blocks didn't fit in it. Instead he used something with wood even though the rest of the game's redstone technology does not contain wood components. There's no consistency here. It's a truly bizarre decision. However, aesthetics are one of my smallest concerns about Minecraft so Notch can be as crazy as he wants when it comes to how the game looks.lacktheknack said:I have no idea why the dynamite block doesn't bother me. It just fits.
Really it bothers me more that he removed the ability to fling stuff into the air with pistons. Why remove pure fun?
I saw the appeal of launching, but I didn't think it really worked in vanilla context. Also, Notch probably didn't want to remove the entire point of downloading the original mod.Internet Kraken said:It fits because you're used to it. Minecraft doesn't (or so I thought) have a defined aesthetic, so the only reason anything looks right to us is becuase it's what we are used to seeing. It seems that Notch does have some weird visual plan for Minecraft and slightly modified iron blocks didn't fit in it. Instead he used something with wood even though the rest of the game's redstone technology does not contain wood components. There's no consistency here. It's a truly bizarre decision. However, aesthetics are one of my smallest concerns about Minecraft so Notch can be as crazy as he wants when it comes to how the game looks.lacktheknack said:I have no idea why the dynamite block doesn't bother me. It just fits.
Really it bothers me more that he removed the ability to fling stuff into the air with pistons. Why remove pure fun?
And I never thought about the redstone-wood thing. Huh. It it fits, I guess... :S
I'll contest the "Because you're used to it", because I'm "used" to seeing those God-awful iron blocks and the marginally better gold and diamond ones, but I'm still considering modding them if I find a more natural looking mod for them.