Poll: The Truth about Greece

[postblitz]

Hi,
I've been lurking the escapist site since yahtzee's first posted a video on it and I'd like to draw your attention to an issue that will affect everyone sooner or later.
I'm from Romania and our country has a bad rep for a lot of things, i admit, but even our troubles pale to our fellow greeks who are going through hardship the likes of which most of us haven't seen.. yet.

In short, I'd like you to watch this: http://9gag.com/gag/2681884

when you're done and you're still here reading this, asking yourself what this has to do with me i'll sum it up in brief:

1. goldman sachs, an american "investment bank", whose employees have slowly infiltrated the us government and are crawling their way to the eu policy makers'seats, is responsable for what is happening in greece, is responsable for the financial crysis and is responsable for a great deal of hardship inflicted upon countries throughout the world including the us, whose citizens feel the ever growing burdens of taxation and retarded policies that favor those with power.

2. they want to destroy greece as they have ruined irak, afghanistan, lybia, egypt and much of the homeowning part of america. if you look deeply enough all facts point to this conclusion. financial, media and governmental manipulation for the sake of enslaving people to taxes which siphon all assets to their corporation

3. they want to enslave the greeks through corrupt politicians, media manipulation with lies and signing deals by which they will seize all assets(including land, homes and the people)

4. what can you do about it? let people know and if this gets you upset spread the news, if people don't gather in places and discuss together nothing will ever be done. the first step is talking about it, get informed.

why is this important?

ACTA, SOPA, PIPA.. they were never about entertainment income, its about the power to manipulate the media even further. they will try to take over greece, they will try to take over you, your life, your freedom.

get upset, you should be.



if you think cars that have their outside changed like wrappers on a fancy but useless gift are modern and cool, you have no imagination. if we wouldn't be held back by these tyrants.. things like jetpacks, flying and going to the moon would be just a hint of what we could accomplish. we can never do that until we are free from this lifestyle.

i'm a video game junky myself.. but i see this as the most important/epic quest in my life, that may decide the fate of the future generations who can either have a promising future or live worse than cattle. i feel i have to do something to save our world!

Please help spread the word!!!! don't believe me if u wish but get informed, please! there are still enough facts out there which cannot be erased, yet!

 

[Ironic Pirate]

No offence, but I don't think anyone wants to "enslave" greece. Honestly, think about that one for a bit.

 

[postblitz]

they're doing it through means that are perceived through the media as legitimate when what's really happening is the greek people lose their freedom and independence.

you want facts? ok..

http://www.nickdunbar.net/articles/goldman-swap-shows-greece-was-europes-subprime-nation/

a random link off many that describe what happened when greece wanted to join the eu

they made a deal with goldman sachs that cleared them of debt in figures and eurostat(EU's financial regulator) denied anything happened until 2010, even though the greeks themselves from the university of athens reported these financial schemes to eurostat behind their government's backs..

if you google things like

- how their current elect officials were financed in their election campaigns
- what the siemens deal was about, and who the siemens board is comprised of
- how germany was unable to sell bonds but the next day italy was able to sell all bonds right when merkel was pressing for tougher financial regulations throughout the union

you'll see where i'm getting at.

also i want to mention that the current "bailout" deals they're getting.. the money goes straight to goldman sachs who is the creditor for the deals by which they entered the union in the first place, whose interests have been rising ever since in a spiral u can never really pay off. guess what happens if they can't pay back the money, not that they ever could, .. what happens is they lose the rights to their assets.. all of them, including people.

you see its the interest and time that's the reason this process took as long as it did.. but they will not stop at Greece i assure you.

 

[Pebblig]

Interestingly enough, Greece was part of a unified currency until just after World War One, however the currency collapsed due to Greece diluting the gold currency by putting less gold in it xD
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latin_Monetary_Union

In regards to your actual post, tl;dr

But enslavement is rather dramatic.

 

[jdun]

Greece deserve what they get. Bunch of lazy people that keep borrowing money and producing nothing over the decades.

They have over 30 days of paid vacation. Retire at age 50. Have free medical care and large pensions but do not export anything. They do not produce anything. They do not create any wealth. All they do is borrow and spend money that they don't have.

Greece rank as one of the most corrupted government in the world. It is run by unions that leeched of the people that was creating wealth in the country. The majority of wealth creators left Greece and with them their money. All you have in Greece now is all leech and no producers.

Now Greece is crying that isn't fair. Greece wouldn't be in this mess if Greece didn't spend money that you don't have. Greece wouldn't be in this mess if Greece actually reward producers and wealth creators instead of punishing them.

Greece is crying that they max out their credit card and the creditors want the monthly payments. Who the victim here? Not Greece. No one force Greece to borrow money or spend money that they don't have. This is 100% Greece fault. The victims are the creditors that lend them the money.

 

[jdun]

As a German, I long lost sympathy for Greece. I was always of the opinion that Greece, or rather, the people in Greece deserved our help.

But then, I took a look at what the people of Greece had to say, and I can say all sympathy I had has vanished. Portraying our politicians as right wing radicals? Calling us nazis? Calling Angela Merkel, that old bulldog, the female version of Hitler?

Yeah, you know what? Lets see how you fair on your own. Probably better, but thats beside the point.

Saying the recession is Germany and Frances fault is pure bullshit too. What would you have us do? Not work for lower pay, not work plain to a higher standard than other countries so they can catch up? Fat chance.

things like jetpacks, flying and going to the moon would be just a hint of what we could accomplish. we can never do that until we are free from this lifestyle.

Bullshit. Capitalism has always been best at accelerating technological progress through competition. Sure, the progress doesnt always get where its needed, but its there, and it wouldnt be in a different system.

snip

They would be shooting themselves in the foot in the long run. Our whole system in the EU is based on consumerism. If the people have no money, they cannot consume. If no one can consume, everything grinds to a halt, and that hurts everyone, from the lowliest hobo to the fattest CEO sooner or later.

If I am a German I would be fucking piss that my tax money is going to Greece to paid for their vacations, overpaid labor, free medical care, their outrageous pensions, etc. If I am a German I would tell them "You can burn your cities as long as you want because I don't give a fuck. You're not getting my money."

German tax payers should not be punish for Greece laziness.

 

[manic_depressive13]

Why would the Americans want to do that? There is oil in the middle east. The only oil in greece is in their olives and on their fat greasy scalps.

 

[the clockmaker]

I'm sure that the banks were behind 9/11 as well, that they want to disband the govenment and replace it with a bunch of men in monacles, that they meet montly in the temple of shub nugarath to sacrifice the procedes of your mortgage to the old ones. But really, they are a profit based organisation, they exist for gain and gain alone. What does a bank gain by collapsing an economy? The devaluation of currency fucks up their profit. A slave nation? When no one has any money to buy anything then there is no profit. Secretive control of elections? How is that really worth the effort when they are effectively an infinate money code.

This is what pisses me off about conspiracies, remember that people are not cartoons, they act in their own interests and really, what does the banks want with Greece, really? What do they gain?

 

[jdun]

What does the banks want with Greece, really? What do they gain?

The banks want their money back which Greece spend it on paid vacations, unions, corrupted governments, etc. Greece has been borrowing money from the banks for a long time because they destroyed all the wealth and producer creators in their country. No one is making money in Greece and when their monthly bills came and couldn't be pay. They cry that life isn't fair.

In my entire life I do not believe I have bought any product that is made from Greece. How many Americans have bought a product that is made in Greece? How many Europeans bought products that is made in Greece?

 

[postblitz]

"Saying the recession is Germany and Frances fault is pure bullshit too. What would you have us do? Not work for lower pay, not work plain to a higher standard than other countries so they can catch up? Fat chance."

i never said it was Germany and France's fault.

the recession was actually due to goldman sachs' engineering of toxic subprime morgages and selling cdo that couldn't be traced through AIG. this all happened in 2008 and went worldwide because it had a ripple effect through the capitals of multinational financial ecosystems.


as for the clockmaker's post ... i'm not talking about conspiracies. these are facts, feel free to look them up and check up the fiscal dealings of wall street and its repercusions.


there are differences in standards of living, working and freedoms between germany and greece sure.. and the media was quick to demonize one system over the other when in fact that was never an issue.. i did say greeks had a corrupt government.. but as all elections the people with money have greater chances of being elected and that's how it happened.




as for why the americans would do that i did mention:
bailouts to greece do not go to greece but to their creditors which are mainly goldman sachs' with their superhigh interest loan engineered to outgrow any payment or measure taken.. other than default.. which they want to avoid for now.. but it will come to that if the people of greece have anything to say about it


"German tax payers should not be punish for Greece laziness."

i agree with that statement.. but nobody is paying anyone's lazyness.. as nobody's money ends up anywhere in europe for that matter.
i also do not agree that bailouts are a measure desired by the greek people. its only their corrupt government that keep pushing goldman sachs'agenda.
greece is effectively being used to siphon money from the eu.
the solution that could save greece and give them their freedom back and enable them to repay debt is to declare themselves bankrupt.. and start anew.. like iceland did, and they're doing fine.



hell u think the wars of the past decade were caused by some evilness some dictators did?
there are and have been scores of evil dictators in many african governments that did not prompt NATO to assault.
when ghadaffi wanted to push for a gold standard for african union and islamic countries
or
when saddam wanted to switch from the dollar to the euro for oil trade currencies..
well.. you know what happened. and it was all about keeping the dollar in the trading business.


"In my entire life I do not believe I have bought any product that is made from Greece. How many Americans have bought a product that is made in Greece? How many Europeans bought products that is made in Greece?"

http://www.tradingeconomics.com/greece/exports
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Greece
http://daniel-workman.suite101.com/greeces-top-imports-exports-2008-a156564

did you look at the products u keep buying? you know for sure u never bought anything from greece? check up data please

 

[Nimcha]

I'll get the tinfoil ready!

 

[postblitz]

2. they want to destroy greece as they have ruined irak, afghanistan, lybia, egypt and much of the homeowning part of america. if you look deeply enough all facts point to this conclusion. financial, media and governmental manipulation for the sake of enslaving people to taxes which siphon all assets to their corporation

*twirls mustache*

Of course! The American business want to destroy Greece. They want to impoverish them so that they're easier to tax. Right. Destroy their industries so they can not make money and tax that not-money. What a brilliant plan! It's good that we have people like you to catch on to these things

3. they want to enslave the greeks through corrupt politicians, media manipulation with lies and signing deals by which they will seize all assets(including land, homes and the people)

Yes, enslave the Greeks through corrupt politicians. Their ever loyal and devout servants, the corrupt politicians. And after they finish seizing all the land and people they will begin a glorious feudal age, because that's the way to produce a lot of money, right?

4. what can you do about it? let people know and if this gets you upset spread the news, if people don't gather in places and discuss together nothing will ever be done. the first step is talking about it, get informed.

Well I am kind of upset that I lost about 100 IQ points reading that link and I have a quiz coming up next week and homework to do. But I don't think that's what you're talking about.

why is this important?

I'd rather not know why you... oh too late.

ACTA, SOPA, PIPA.. they were never about entertainment income, its about the power to manipulate the media even further. they will try to take over greece, they will try to take over you, your life, your freedom.

How will the manipulate it further? Why would they take over a country that is doing poorly? Why the hell would they want to take over my life and take my freedom? Pretty sure the current model of business is doing pretty well for them. I don't think many want to go to a feudal model where they take the land and people.

get upset, you should be.

No.

if you think cars that have their outside changed like wrappers on a fancy but useless gift are modern and cool, you have no imagination. if we wouldn't be held back by these tyrants.. things like jetpacks, flying and going to the moon would be just a hint of what we could accomplish. we can never do that until we are free from this lifestyle.

Uh what? No, that's stupid. We would not have jetpacks or be going to the moon. We do, btw, have flying. It's called airplanes.

i'm a video game junky myself.. but i see this as the most important/epic quest in my life, that may decide the fate of the future generations who can either have a promising future or live worse than cattle. i feel i have to do something to save our world!

Yes, because we all know that productivity is increased when big businesses unnecessarily make people live like cattle. Dark Side points are a kind of currency right? Because that's all they seem to be earning if they do what you think they plan to.

And are you sure you're just not doing this for attention seeking? You want to do something important so you make up a conspiracy?

Please help spread the word!!!! don't believe me if u wish but get informed, please! there are still enough facts out there which cannot be erased, yet!

How about you get informed?

I did get informed, yet you are blind to even a hint of reality. I'm fairly convinced you have not investigated the matter at all and are just trolling but i'll endulge it while i have the time to service this matter on the escapist board.

So basicly your argument is that my "theory" is flawed due to the consequences being too obtuse for your vision to handle. Well let me enlighten you.. unless you're busy with your quiz which i'm sure will be just fascinating to gloat over later or whatever it is you do.

The word destroy can have multiple meanings.. in this case i was referring to their independence, their right to govern themselves and choose how they want to live their lives.

I did not blame american businesses in general, merely a financial institution that has penetrated all governmental departments and effectively rule your state whether you're aware of it or not. The policy makers of the US are mostly employees from that very firm which is responsable for our contemporary financial crysis, its spread and its targets throughout the world.

Sure you could argue what they did was within the law and its all bound in rules and legal documents. Issues is they make the law since they hold key offices in the US and they've made sure to use that power to target governments and nations for their own ends.

If you doubt my credibility due to thinking i'm seeking attention.. i assure you i will not be posting another day, i will be replying to pm if needed but i did say.. don't believe me.. search on google and look it up yourselves. but please.. do not check up conspiracy sounding websites.. look up facts with data, look up news from even the media that tries to spoonfeed how the greece people brought it all upon themselves .. they do contradict themselves quite often.. and feed incorect details.

 

[jdun]

I'll get the tinfoil ready!

What you really need is a helmet that guarantee 100% protections against stupidity. Hell I think I'm going to invent one right now.

The people of Greece needs to know that the Fairy Godmother doesn't shit money out of her ass. Yes the truth hurts that there no Fairy Godmother and she doesn't shit free stuffs for liberals and socialist.

Greece deserve every last bit of what they sow.

 

[jdun]

A CEO have to be a fucking dumbass that gone full retard to want to control of the government. CEO job is to make money. Government don't make money they go into debts.

For profits companies is just that to make money. To create wealth and jobs.

Government is about welfare. It's not in the business of creating wealth and jobs. Government is in the business of destroying wealth and jobs.

Here's the facts. Corporations wants the government to leave them alone so they can make money. They don't want to take over the government because they aren't in the welfare business.

 

[Thaluikhain]

Capitalists in the US may have fucked people over, Greece might be about to collapse and all...but that doesn't mean it was intentional. Now, I doubt many people would care if their actions to increase their own wealth caused the collapse of a small European nation, but saying there is a grand conspiracy is going a bit beyond.

They aren't trying to enslave you, they just don't care about you. If you don't jump out of the way, you get run over, but they aren't trying to hamr you, you just got in the way.

 

[TechNoFear]

I find Zero Hedge quite informative.

WIKI:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zero_Hedge

MAIN SITE:
http://www.zerohedge.com/