Poll: The Watchmen Theory

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TheDrunkNinja

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Jun 12, 2009
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EDIT: Poll didn't go through for some reason. Sorry, guys. Yeah, I didn't title my thread with Poll: at the beginning, there was one attached that for some reason won't show up.

TL;DR: Scroll down to the next heading in bold.

As many of you may know, Watchmen is seen often as the pinnacle of comicbook storytelling and political, moral, ethical, and human intrigue that has transcended itself as one of the greatest graphic novels every made. At the end of the book, Watchmen introduced a scenario, a scene and question that played a major part in garnering the book's fame.

I have a bit of a variation on this scenario.

If you haven't read Watchmen or don't want the ultimate end of the story, consider this the warning.

In Watchmen, Adrian Veidt takes on the near impossible task of ostensibly creating world peace and averting an imminent nuclear disaster. The only way he can see a concrete way of uniting the world in peace is with a common enemy, causing mass destruction around the world and vilifying a specific entity. The result is a perfect success, however, resulting in all warring nations to drop arms and support humanity as opposed to a single race, nation, or belief.

Now, the way it's done in Watchmen, there's a lot of underlying factors and variables which grays the lines to the point of nonexistence. Although there is a serious leap in realism to the story, it still holds up and is ultimately what inspired me to create this new scenario. Now that you have some backstory, here's my more streamlined version...

Here's the scenario:
We're going to have this take place in present day, where this is still war and the threat of war on a large scale all over the world. Everybody always talks about world peace and the end of all conflict for all races and beliefs, but how far would you be willing to go to get it?

There is a way to obtain world peace for the masses, but there is a price. A common enemy must be created in order to unite the people of the world. With the vilification and eradication of a single race of people, the rest of the world will be rewarded with guaranteed un-ending peace. I'm not saying a single nation or even a belief system. I am saying an entire race of people is to be eliminated.

This vilification can only be accomplished by complete and utter genocide and the subsequent elimination and shunning of their culture, existence, history, and any impact they had on the world. Any monuments or cities they build are to be torn down. They're traditions and culture to be trashed and forgotten. Any treasures they hold to be burned and buried.

Such a price, and yet the significance of the saving versus the losses cannot be denied. We are talking about minority versus majority. And yet we must also factor in the complete and impactful loss an entire race of people and all the culture and history they changed the world with. Genocide in the absolute worst way. But the guaranteed peace for billions versus the millions that were sacrificed...

I leave it up to you, my fellow Escapists. Choose what you would support in this clearly controversial topic. Choose a side or don't choose at all. There is no middle ground with this poll. It's up to you.
 

Kpt._Rob

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Apr 22, 2009
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Would I do it? Absolutely not. First off, there's the fact that there is absolutely no evidence to show that doing such a thing would actually work (after all, it's nothing but the epitome of Neo-Con theory). But even beyond that, and feel free to call me naive, but I think that it is of the gravest importance to stick to the heroic ideals we set up in our own fiction. That compromise, an incredible evil for an incredible good, is not acceptable.

Honestly, I think that even if we did have a real unifying threat, humanity would be more likely to be too busy still bickering with each other to ever get their shit together.
 

Ftaghn To You Too

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Nov 25, 2009
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Does MTV count as a race? Because I'm pretty sure that killing them and erasing their existence really would bring about world peace. And would be completely justified.
 

TheDrunkNinja

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Kpt._Rob said:
Would I do it? Absolutely not. First off, there's the fact that there is absolutely no evidence to show that doing such a thing would actually work (after all, it's nothing but the epitome of Neo-Con theory). But even beyond that, and feel free to call me naive, but I think that it is of the gravest importance to stick to the heroic ideals we set up in our own fiction. That compromise, an incredible evil for an incredible good, is not acceptable.

Honestly, I think that even if we did have a real unifying threat, humanity would be more likely to be too busy still bickering with each other to ever get their shit together.
I'm giving you a guarantee of world peace and the neutralization of all conflict. The question is whether or not it should be obtained in such a way.

The point of the discussion is the ethical and moral dilemma, not the rationalization of it.
 

cainx10a

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May 17, 2008
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The problem is, once you eliminated that race of people (team purple ... purple sux), what do you do after, when another argument break out between team red and team yellow, create another enemy in the form of term violet, who are kinda different and like violet (sux too). Where does it end after Violet is given a good taste of genocide and all the good stuff that comes along with it.

The only way team red and team yellow can stick together, is while the perceived treat from team purple and violet still exist. I doubt there is such thing as eternal peace.
 

AgentNein

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Jun 14, 2008
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....No. I'd rather be responsible in some way shape or form for the continuing misery of humanity through my inaction than the complete obliteration of this one culture through my action. Tough choice though.

I guess if I had that sort of power in my hands I would give it up and let the world continue on it's previous course. To me that would be the only ethically sound decision, as I don't think anyone should have that kind of power.
 

kurupt87

Fuhuhzucking hellcocks I'm good
Mar 17, 2010
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Errm, once the enemy is beaten the unity fails. The enemy needs to remain, which is why blue was perfect; he's basically a god that humanity could unite against to combat. But they can't win. At best they can mitigate.

In your scenario the 'good guys' beat the 'bad guys', after that they then have no further need to stick together. You saying your situation would grant everlasting peace is like me saying if I work really hard at school one day I'll be a budgerigar; it's just a wish.

The enemy needs to remain and be a constant threat, that's why it was set in the Cold War. The USA and the USSR drove eachother to be more powerful because they couldn't beat the other, or that winning would be almost indistinguishable from losing.
 

thecoreyhlltt

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Jul 12, 2010
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cainx10a said:
The problem is, once you eliminated that race of people (team purple ... purple sux), what do you do after, when another argument break out between team red and team yellow, create another enemy in the form of term violet, who are kinda different and like violet (sux too). Where does it end after Violet is given a good taste of genocide and all the good stuff that comes along with it.

The only way team red and team yellow can stick together, is while the perceived treat from team purple and violet still exist. I doubt there is such thing as eternal peace.
that's why it worked in The Watchmen, cause Dr. Manhattan was still around technically
 

Kpt._Rob

Travelling Mushishi
Apr 22, 2009
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TheDrunkNinja said:
Kpt._Rob said:
Would I do it? Absolutely not. First off, there's the fact that there is absolutely no evidence to show that doing such a thing would actually work (after all, it's nothing but the epitome of Neo-Con theory). But even beyond that, and feel free to call me naive, but I think that it is of the gravest importance to stick to the heroic ideals we set up in our own fiction. That compromise, an incredible evil for an incredible good, is not acceptable.

Honestly, I think that even if we did have a real unifying threat, humanity would be more likely to be too busy still bickering with each other to ever get their shit together.
I'm giving you a guarantee of world peace and the neutralization of all conflict. The question is whether or not it should be obtained in such a way.

The point of the discussion is the ethical and moral dilemma, not the rationalization of it.
I realize that you're giving me that guarantee, but it's not a realistic hypothetical if you're going to give us that guarantee. Anyone who actually had the capabilities to enact such a situation could not know that it would work, they could only believe it had a strong chance of success. I believe it has a strong chance of failure.

And I have already said in my original post that even beyond the potential for failure, I would not compromise my ideals in such a way. It's not acceptable.
 

AgentNein

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Jun 14, 2008
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Kpt._Rob said:
TheDrunkNinja said:
Kpt._Rob said:
Would I do it? Absolutely not. First off, there's the fact that there is absolutely no evidence to show that doing such a thing would actually work (after all, it's nothing but the epitome of Neo-Con theory). But even beyond that, and feel free to call me naive, but I think that it is of the gravest importance to stick to the heroic ideals we set up in our own fiction. That compromise, an incredible evil for an incredible good, is not acceptable.

Honestly, I think that even if we did have a real unifying threat, humanity would be more likely to be too busy still bickering with each other to ever get their shit together.
I'm giving you a guarantee of world peace and the neutralization of all conflict. The question is whether or not it should be obtained in such a way.

The point of the discussion is the ethical and moral dilemma, not the rationalization of it.
I realize that you're giving me that guarantee, but it's not a realistic hypothetical if you're going to give us that guarantee. Anyone who actually had the capabilities to enact such a situation could not know that it would work, they could only believe it had a strong chance of success. I believe it has a strong chance of failure.
A hypothetical question shouldn't have to be realistic. Sometimes they present a situation that we'd never find in the real world to help us examine the underlying reasons for our personal morals.
 

TheDrunkNinja

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Kpt._Rob said:
I realize that you're giving me that guarantee, but it's not a realistic hypothetical if you're going to give us that guarantee. Anyone who actually had the capabilities to enact such a situation could not know that it would work, they could only believe it had a strong chance of success. I believe it has a strong chance of failure.

And I have already said in my original post that even beyond the potential for failure, I would not compromise my ideals in such a way. It's not acceptable.
I don't want the application of logic to a question that is at it's core is made to question the morals of the participant. In other words, you shouldn't be trying to "solve" the question when it is made to enact an emotional response. Answering it in such a way would completely defeat the purpose as people would just answer to what is the "best" option, when there is none.

Either way, you pretty much already did that with your answer of uncompromising ideals, but I felt it necessary to clarify.
 

JRCB

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Jan 11, 2009
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I would not do it, for peace is impossible between all humans. As well, the complete eradication of a people is wrong, no matter what.
 

Raddra

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Jan 5, 2010
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No, because it doesn't work that way.

Look how quickly the world went from common enemy to back at each others throats after world war II
 
Feb 13, 2008
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TheDrunkNinja said:
There is no middle ground with this poll. It's up to you.
I did the right thing, didn't I? It all worked out in the end.
[HEADING=3]'In the end'? Nothing ends, Adrian. Nothing ever ends.[/HEADING]
 

Redlin5_v1legacy

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Aug 5, 2009
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The_root_of_all_evil said:
TheDrunkNinja said:
There is no middle ground with this poll. It's up to you.
I did the right thing, didn't I? It all worked out in the end.
[HEADING=3]'In the end'? Nothing ends, Adrian. Nothing ever ends.[/HEADING]
Pretty much this. I don't know what I could do if I were put in the scenario to be honest. Be a murderer of billions by inaction or a murderer of millions by action?

I think my head would explode.
 

RedEyesBlackGamer

The Killjoy Detective returns!
Jan 23, 2011
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You are essentially asking us who we sided with in Watchmen, Adrian or Rorschach.
I sided with Rorschach. I wouldn't sacrifice my principles to guarantee world peace. I'm pretty selfish.
 

DJDarque

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Aug 24, 2009
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TheDrunkNinja said:
With the vilification and eradication of a single race of people

This vilification can only be accomplished by complete and utter genocide and the subsequent elimination and shunning of their culture, existence, history, and any impact they had on the world.
No, just no. There is no way whatsoever that completely removing a single race or culture would give the world peace, and you'd have to be a madman to think that. If one race or culture were to just disappear it would only cause unrest because you would have the people who celebrate their extermination and the people who mourn them. This would only lead to more conflict.

If anything, you would have to destroy the vast majority of all races and cultures across the entire world, leaving only a few people from each culture living. Even then you won't have complete peace.

World peace is impossible no matter what the method.