Poll: There are only 2 genders....right?

[Wasted]

Biological stand point, yes due to chromosomes. Female being XX and male XY.

If you define sex like that, where do you put the people who don't fit and the people with Klinefelter syndrome?

Having a Y chromosome makes a human biologically male since they will develop a penis and testis, regardless of having an extra X chromosome. The Y chromosome is the sex differentiator for humans.

 

[Eclipse Dragon]

Biological stand point, yes due to chromosomes. Female being XX and male XY.

If you define sex like that, where do you put the people who don't fit and the people with Klinefelter syndrome?

Having a Y chromosome makes a human biologically male since they will develop a penis and testis, regardless of having an extra X chromosome. The Y chromosome is the sex differentiator for humans.

Except that hormone disorders such as congenital adrenal hyperplasia can cause the body to develop incorrectly, both early on and/or later in life.

 

[Lt._nefarious]

There are only 2 genders full stop. Purely my opinion, it makes me very unpopular in certain circles, it might make me unpopular here, I've not used this site in a long, long time so I don't know what the general leaning is on topics like this, so I am sorry if this is unpopular but I defy anyone who argues that there are more than 2 genders, either genetically speaking or otherwise.

 

[Wasted]

Biological stand point, yes due to chromosomes. Female being XX and male XY.

If you define sex like that, where do you put the people who don't fit and the people with Klinefelter syndrome?

Having a Y chromosome makes a human biologically male since they will develop a penis and testis, regardless of having an extra X chromosome. The Y chromosome is the sex differentiator for humans.

Except that hormone disorders such as congenital adrenal hyperplasia can cause the body to develop incorrectly to their chromosomes, both early on and/or later in life.

Yes but they are an anomaly and not an established sex due to being almost always sterile. Unlike the sunfish where they have a distinguished 3rd sex in between male and female. Rare disorders are not a factor in distinguishing biological sex.

 

[Eclipse Dragon]

Biological stand point, yes due to chromosomes. Female being XX and male XY.

If you define sex like that, where do you put the people who don't fit and the people with Klinefelter syndrome?

Having a Y chromosome makes a human biologically male since they will develop a penis and testis, regardless of having an extra X chromosome. The Y chromosome is the sex differentiator for humans.

Except that hormone disorders such as congenital adrenal hyperplasia can cause the body to develop incorrectly to their chromosomes, both early on and/or later in life.

Yes but they are an anomaly and not an established sex due to being almost always sterile. Unlike the sunfish where they have a distinguished 3rd sex in between male and female. Rare disorders are not a factor in distinguishing biological sex.

Full blown congenital adrenal hyperplasia is 1:2000, while the late onset veriety (happens at puberty) is as common as 1:66 hardly rare.

 

[Zontar]

Biological stand point, yes due to chromosomes. Female being XX and male XY.

If you define sex like that, where do you put the people who don't fit and the people with Klinefelter syndrome?

Having a Y chromosome makes a human biologically male since they will develop a penis and testis, regardless of having an extra X chromosome. The Y chromosome is the sex differentiator for humans.

Except that hormone disorders such as congenital adrenal hyperplasia can cause the body to develop incorrectly to their chromosomes, both early on and/or later in life.

Plus it begs the question of where XYY syndrome people like myself fall into it all.

Now there's no real difference to be observed in those who are XYY and those who are XY (hell, my doctor and I didn't even know until I had a test done that was unrelated to it).

 

[Wasted]

Biological stand point, yes due to chromosomes. Female being XX and male XY.

If you define sex like that, where do you put the people who don't fit and the people with Klinefelter syndrome?

Having a Y chromosome makes a human biologically male since they will develop a penis and testis, regardless of having an extra X chromosome. The Y chromosome is the sex differentiator for humans.

Except that hormone disorders such as congenital adrenal hyperplasia can cause the body to develop incorrectly to their chromosomes, both early on and/or later in life.

Yes but they are an anomaly and not an established sex due to being almost always sterile. Unlike the sunfish where they have a distinguished 3rd sex in between male and female. Rare disorders are not a factor in distinguishing biological sex.

Full blown congenital adrenal hyperplasia is as common as 1:2000, while the late onset veriety (happens at puberty) is as common as 1:66 hardly rare.

I admit I did not know the numbers where that high. I am just talking about at the most basic level how the medical field views sexuality, which is defined by having a penis and testis. I'm not saying it is the correct way to label biological sex.

 

[KyuubiNoKitsune-Hime]

Biological stand point, yes due to chromosomes. Female being XX and male XY.

If you define sex like that, where do you put the people who don't fit and the people with Klinefelter syndrome?

Having a Y chromosome makes a human biologically male since they will develop a penis and testis, regardless of having an extra X chromosome. The Y chromosome is the sex differentiator for humans.

Except that hormone disorders such as congenital adrenal hyperplasia can cause the body to develop incorrectly to their chromosomes, both early on and/or later in life.

Plus it begs the question of where XYY syndrome people like myself fall into it all.

Now there's no real difference to be observed in those who are XYY and those who are XY (hell, my doctor and I didn't even know until I had a test done that was unrelated to it).

Or how about someone like me who was born with XX Male syndrome?

 

[Dizchu]

There are two biological sexes, but gender is a spectrum. Think of it sorta like the Kinsey scale (which is the scale that measures the bias of attraction towards someone of the same sex or the opposite, with bisexuals occupying the middle). On one side (the more common one), you have "cisgender", on the other you have the classical idea of "transgender" (which is gender identity is that of the opposite sex). In the middle you have all sorts of people, including me.

I'm fine with people saying that there are two biological sexes, because that's scientifically demonstrable. Gender identity however, is a psychological, cultural, anthropological thing. While ideally I'd prefer gender as a concept to be diluted so nobody gives a shit who's "feminine" or "masculine" enough, I think gender identity is very important for people like any other kind of identity.

What I'm not okay with is people riding upon the dysphoria of suffering transpeople as if it were a trend, at worst it can devolve into absolute narcissism. That's where your "do, re, mi, fa, so, la, ti, do" pronouns come from, which do nothing but alienate transpeople even more.

But yeah, not only do I think there aren't two genders, I don't even think gender as a concept is quantifiable. I identify as "androgynous" because I exhibit traditionally masculine and feminine traits but it's more of a descriptive word than a banner I fly.

 

[Tiger King]

In the middle you have all sorts of people, including me.

Do you mind explaining that a bit more? I think most of us including myself see it as black and white, male or female.

captcha says:
think.
create. do.
not sure if that is inspirational or captcha telling me to stop slacking!

 

[Vigormortis]

Poll needs a 3rd option.

"Depends on how one defines 'gender'."

Spoiler: Because this:

There are two biological sexes, but gender is a spectrum. Think of it sorta like the Kinsey scale (which is the scale that measures the bias of attraction towards someone of the same sex or the opposite, with bisexuals occupying the middle). On one side (the more common one), you have "cisgender", on the other you have the classical idea of "transgender" (which is gender identity is that of the opposite sex). In the middle you have all sorts of people, including me.

I'm fine with people saying that there are two biological sexes, because that's scientifically demonstrable. Gender identity however, is a psychological, cultural, anthropological thing. While ideally I'd prefer gender as a concept to be diluted so nobody gives a shit who's "feminine" or "masculine" enough, I think gender identity is very important for people like any other kind of identity.

What I'm not okay with is people riding upon the dysphoria of suffering transpeople as if it were a trend, at worst it can devolve into absolute narcissism. That's where your "do, re, mi, fa, so, la, ti, do" pronouns come from, which do nothing but alienate transpeople even more.

But yeah, not only do I think there aren't two genders, I don't even think gender as a concept is quantifiable. I identify as "androgynous" because I exhibit traditionally masculine and feminine traits but it's more of a descriptive word than a banner I fly.

Spoiler: And this:

To me it's as simple as biology, but there's no harm in humoring people and accepting they can identify with whatever they feel like.

Are both valid interpretations of the term.

 

[Dizchu]

Do you mind explaining that a bit more? I think most of us including myself see it as black and white, male or female.

captcha says:
think.
create. do.
not sure if that is inspirational or captcha telling me to stop slacking!

I see biological sex as black and white (because apart from a very tiny minority of cases, it is), gender is different though. The way western societies (for example) see gender is quite black and white, men are expected to be a certain way in terms of behaviour, appearance, social interaction etc. while women are expected to be different. Generally there is some wiggle-room, but some people (generally a minority of people) clash quite a lot with these gender expectations, enough that what is generally meant by "male" and "female" as genders (not sexes) becomes irrelevant.

It's because of this that I mostly present myself as male, because it means less harassment on the street, less awkwardness around strangers, etc. But the way I present myself on the internet, as well as in the company of my closest friends and my girlfriend is completely different, yet... it's not exactly me presenting myself as "female" either. I used to present myself as such but I found that it wasn't quite honest, people referring to me as a woman, using female pronouns and stuff... I wasn't quite comfortable with that either. And it's not as simple as me being a boy that wears makeup because I have an extreme dislike for certain "masculine" features I have while at the same time liking others.

So eventually I just figured that gender identity doesn't really matter to me, because neither "male" nor "female" are really good descriptors when you regard gender as a broad societal concept. Maybe if gender identity wasn't such a big deal when it comes to culture in general, I wouldn't be making a fuss about not being one or the other, but the fact is, it is. Me calling myself "male" brings along a bunch of different expectations and me calling myself "female" just brings along a bunch of other expectations, none of which are really accurate. So that's why I identify as neither.

You can disagree with me if you want, that's cool. As long as you can see where I'm coming from, that's all that matters to me, really. My gender is such a minuscule part of who I am that I personally just don't care, though I am respectful of those that do care.

ADDITIONAL NOTE: I do think that excessively specific gender identities are a bit silly though, to me they seem to commodify certain traits rather than help mutual understanding. I have the same issue with sexual orientations that are nitpicky and useless when it comes to practical application.

 

[Tiger King]

Do you mind explaining that a bit more? I think most of us including myself see it as black and white, male or female.

captcha says:
think.
create. do.
not sure if that is inspirational or captcha telling me to stop slacking!

I see biological sex as black and white (because apart from a very tiny minority of cases, it is), gender is different though. The way western societies (for example) see gender is quite black and white, men are expected to be a certain way in terms of behaviour, appearance, social interaction etc. while women are expected to be different.

It's because of this that I mostly present myself as male, because it means less harassment on the street, less awkwardness around strangers, etc. But the way I present myself on the internet, as well as in the company of my closest friends and my girlfriend is completely different, yet... it's not exactly me presenting myself as "female" either. I used to present myself as such but I found that it wasn't quite honest, people referring to me as a woman, using female pronouns and stuff... I wasn't quite comfortable with that either. And it's not as simple as me being a boy that wears makeup because I have an extreme dislike for certain "masculine" features I have while at the same time liking others.

So eventually I just figured that gender identity doesn't really matter to me, because neither "male" nor "female" are really good descriptors when you regard gender as a broad societal concept. Maybe if gender identity wasn't such a big deal when it comes to culture in general, I wouldn't be making a fuss about not being one or the other, but the fact is, it is. Me calling myself "male" brings along a bunch of different expectations and me calling myself "female" just brings along a bunch of other expectations, none of which are really accurate. So that's why I identify as neither.

You can disagree with me if you want, that's cool. As long as you can see where I'm coming from, that's all that matters to me, really. My gender is such a minuscule part of who I am that I personally just don't care, though I am respectful of those that do care.

ADDITIONAL NOTE: I do think that excessively specific gender identities are a bit silly though, to me they seem to commodify certain traits rather than help mutual understanding. I have the same issue with sexual orientations that are nitpicky and useless when it comes to practical application.

no I don't disagree with you, i'm not judgemental like that or anything. I do think I have a better idea of what it is to be transgender now though. (probably messed that term up)
gender means little to me however, if you are a nice guy/girl and are cool to hang about with then i'm all good.

 

[SonOfVoorhees]

There is man and woman. Male and Female. Doesnt matter who you think you are, you are still in those categories. Its why if a transgen woman wanted to date me - doesnt matter as she was born a man. Her genes will say she was a man. If you are arguing you might as well say a gay man is a man that wants to be female being that they are attracted to men. Gender is what it is, either male or female. Whatever a person thinks they are isnt an issue. Though their freedom to chose is. An if you were born a man yet want to be a female....then fine. But dont expect all males to see you as a female.

 

[NeutralDrow]

I'm gonna go ahead and assume all the "yes" votes are due to people mistaking sex and gender as the same thing. Yes, despite the thread.

BUT WAIT

You were born a man, but you feel like a woman.
What does that make you then?

Well if you have a sexchange.
That makes you a woman.

Actually they are still a man. They just have had surgery to look like a woman. But they are still a man.

And if they behave like a woman, have no desire to behave as anything other than a woman, are legally considered a woman (in some countries), and due to a combination of physical surgery and reassignment/hormone replacement therapy, are physically a woman?

People here are saying that sex is a biology thing, while gender is a cultural thing, but it's still a cultural thing based on biology.

In roughly the same way a movie like Rudy or The Amityville Horror is "based on" a true story, perhaps.

 

[Ihateregistering1]

Biological stand point, yes due to chromosomes. Female being XX and male XY.

If you define sex like that, where do you put the people who don't fit and the people with Klinefelter syndrome?

Having a Y chromosome makes a human biologically male since they will develop a penis and testis, regardless of having an extra X chromosome. The Y chromosome is the sex differentiator for humans.

Except that hormone disorders such as congenital adrenal hyperplasia can cause the body to develop incorrectly to their chromosomes, both early on and/or later in life.

Plus it begs the question of where XYY syndrome people like myself fall into it all.

Now there's no real difference to be observed in those who are XYY and those who are XY (hell, my doctor and I didn't even know until I had a test done that was unrelated to it).

Or how about someone like me who was born with XX Male syndrome?

Even with XX male syndrome, you still possess the SRY (sex determining region Y) gene on your second X chromosome. Normally that gene is attached to the Y chromosome, plus the other genes that bring about stereotypical male physical development. During crossing over in meiosis, it's possible (though exceptionally rare) for the SRY gene to attach to an X chromosome instead.

As for klinefelter syndrome, etc, from a purely technical standpoint, it's relatively simple: if you have a Y, you are biologically male. It doesn't matter if you're XXXXXXXXY, or if you have a completely female phenotype, you're still technically male. 99.999% of the time, Chromosomes determine biological sex, but really it's the genes associated with those chromosomes that actually determine sex.

So in other words, even with XX male syndrome, you still possess the 'male genes', so you are biologically male. Even intersex humans are still technically male or female, but obviously you can't look at a person and know what their genotype is.

TLDR, for purely biological purposes and when we're talking genotypes, yes there are only two human sexes, but it doesn't have much to do with your appearance, and gender is a separate issue.

 

[Drathnoxis]

64?! Does anybody have a source for that? Heck, can anybody list even half of those?

Stretching it, the most I can come up with is 8:
-Male
-Female
-Male identify as female
-Female identify as male
-Male identify as none
-Female identify as none
-Male identify as both
-Female identify as both

Or am I missing a layer of complexity here? Is there such a thing as a male who identifies as a female that identifies as a male?

 

[GrumbleGrump]

I guess I'll disagree just so to humour the politically correct.

 

[Sable Gear]

Biologically, there are only two sexes and a few rare individuals who come out somewhere in between. Gender is cultural though and while traditionally there are only two genders in Western society, other societies have a third, such as the Hijra [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hijra_(South_Asia)] of South Asia. So I'd say it depends on your culture, personally if people want to identify as a third gender then it's none of my business.

Yes, from what I understand, on a genetic chromosome level, there are two sexes. And I think the occasional genetic in-between, but overall there are two sexes.

Gender is different though. That's masculine/feminine rather than male/female.

This.

Sex is biological and mostly binary (hermaphroditism is rare in mammals like humans). Gender is performative (culturally defined and individually displayed) and is fluid, with "genders" around the globe numbering well over the Western binary.

Can we please stop debating this now? It's not even about political correctness and avoiding becoming SJW-fodder, it's an actual cultural issue and is well-studied by anthropologists. It's not PC pandering, it's scientifically correct.