Poll: Tipping, Gratuities, etc. and You!

[Blow_Pop]

As a former server, I tip depending on the level of service I get in relation to how busy it is. I have left a few cents tip before. In my defense, it was REALLY BAD SERVICE and the restaurant was dead (as in my server only had me and my friend in their section and we couldn't get our server to get us refills and shit so really bad service). I did feel kind of bad about it as I know minimum wage sucks and you can't live off of it, however, I believe if you want a decent tip, you need to at least TRY to give decent service. I regularly go out to a restaurant once a month with a large group of friends. We all split our checks and we all tip. My regular order comes out to about $16.00. We usually get really good service. As I don't have a lot of money to spend I can't tip as much as I really want to and I feel bad. However, going by a 15% tip, I tip almost double what I should be tipping (hand server $20 tell them to keep the change). However, at that restaurant we also get REALLY good service too no matter how busy they are. Personally, had I the money, I'd do at least an $8 tip because our two servers we usually get deserve that for how hard they work and how great they are. That said, if I don't have money to order something and leave a tip (I've left tips on water before because that's all I ordered and felt bad that it was all I ordered so I left about the price of a soda which was all I had on me), I typically don't go out to a restaurant.

I judge others on how they tip as well. I've met people who boast proudly that they never tip because of how easy it is to be a server (at which I've interjected and put my personal experiences to them and some have actually changed their policy on tipping because some people are just ignorant and don't know better). My best tip I've ever gotten was from two guys who one ordered a double crown and coke and the other a double jack and coke. Double jack and coke guy was an asshole (amusing but still an ass) and treated me like I wasnt wearing anything(I had steel toe boots on, loose trousers-like loose in the legs not form fitting, and a loose shirt that was buttoned up to my collarbone and the sleeves went to my elbows) but double crown and coke guy was really nice, apologised for his friends behaviour and gave me a $100 bill and told me to keep the change. Unfortunately at that job I was lucky to walk away with $5 in tips for the night (we were expected to tip our bartenders out of our tips) for most nights because my managers hated me and put me in terrible sections. As someone who has worked their ass off going through a crowd with a heavy tray of drinks and food and only gotten $1 tip on a $40-50 meal I know how much it sucks.

If a restaurant is visibly busy and I see the server making the attempt to do their best (y'know not intentionally ignoring their tables or anything) I'll tip well. However if the server is just ignoring their tables and doing the bare minimum I won't. But that's my general rule. Make the attempt get a decent to great tip. Don't make the attempt get anywhere from nothing to bare minimum for tips.

 

[Chairman Miaow]

I tip because I'm scared of entitled people tampering with my food, and because I'm scared of what society will think of me if I don't play along.

It's a bit like leaving a gift at the altar of the GLORIOUS LEADER in North Korea. You do it out of fear and because you'll be punished if you don't.

This. I had the gall to refuse to tip at a restaurant once when it was included on the bill because my service was absolutely atrocious, the staff physically stopped me from leaving until I agreed to pay. Robbery. If you get paid shitty wages, form a fucking union or something. Besides, if tips don't make up minimum wage, doesn't the employer have to top the rest up anyway?

 

[jklinders]

I tip because I'm scared of entitled people tampering with my food, and because I'm scared of what society will think of me if I don't play along.

It's a bit like leaving a gift at the altar of the GLORIOUS LEADER in North Korea. You do it out of fear and because you'll be punished if you don't.

This. I had the gall to refuse to tip at a restaurant once when it was included on the bill because my service was absolutely atrocious, the staff physically stopped me from leaving until I agreed to pay. Robbery. If you get paid shitty wages, form a fucking union or something. Besides, if tips don't make up minimum wage, doesn't the employer have to top the rest up anyway?

For real? I would just love to see someone try that with me. I'd be walking out the door in the time they spent picking their teeth up from the floor. If they threatened to call the cops I would ask them what the term unlawful confinement meant to them.

Including tips on the bill should be a crime in itself. If you are going to do that you might as well pay a real wage and have teh menu price reflect that. It's deceptive pricing at it's very worst.

 

[Chairman Miaow]

I tip because I'm scared of entitled people tampering with my food, and because I'm scared of what society will think of me if I don't play along.

It's a bit like leaving a gift at the altar of the GLORIOUS LEADER in North Korea. You do it out of fear and because you'll be punished if you don't.

This. I had the gall to refuse to tip at a restaurant once when it was included on the bill because my service was absolutely atrocious, the staff physically stopped me from leaving until I agreed to pay. Robbery. If you get paid shitty wages, form a fucking union or something. Besides, if tips don't make up minimum wage, doesn't the employer have to top the rest up anyway?

For real? I would just love to see someone try that with me. I'd be walking out the door in the time they spent picking their teeth up from the floor. If they threatened to call the cops I would ask them what the term unlawful confinement meant to them.

Including tips on the bill should be a crime in itself. If you are going to do that you might as well pay a real wage and have teh menu price reflect that. It's deceptive pricing at it's very worst.

Well, I was a white guy in South Africa and much as I love certain aspects of the country it has a teensy weensy issue with racism in all directions. Starting a fight or calling the cops was a gamble I didn't want to take.

 

[jklinders]

I tip because I'm scared of entitled people tampering with my food, and because I'm scared of what society will think of me if I don't play along.

It's a bit like leaving a gift at the altar of the GLORIOUS LEADER in North Korea. You do it out of fear and because you'll be punished if you don't.

This. I had the gall to refuse to tip at a restaurant once when it was included on the bill because my service was absolutely atrocious, the staff physically stopped me from leaving until I agreed to pay. Robbery. If you get paid shitty wages, form a fucking union or something. Besides, if tips don't make up minimum wage, doesn't the employer have to top the rest up anyway?

For real? I would just love to see someone try that with me. I'd be walking out the door in the time they spent picking their teeth up from the floor. If they threatened to call the cops I would ask them what the term unlawful confinement meant to them.

Including tips on the bill should be a crime in itself. If you are going to do that you might as well pay a real wage and have teh menu price reflect that. It's deceptive pricing at it's very worst.

Well, I was a white guy in South Africa and much as I love certain aspects of the country it has a teensy weensy issue with racism in all directions. Starting a fight or calling the cops was a gamble I didn't want to take.

In other words they had you at a disadvantage. Question, did they at least PROMINENTLY advise somewhere that the grat was auto charged?

 

[Chairman Miaow]

I tip because I'm scared of entitled people tampering with my food, and because I'm scared of what society will think of me if I don't play along.

It's a bit like leaving a gift at the altar of the GLORIOUS LEADER in North Korea. You do it out of fear and because you'll be punished if you don't.

This. I had the gall to refuse to tip at a restaurant once when it was included on the bill because my service was absolutely atrocious, the staff physically stopped me from leaving until I agreed to pay. Robbery. If you get paid shitty wages, form a fucking union or something. Besides, if tips don't make up minimum wage, doesn't the employer have to top the rest up anyway?

For real? I would just love to see someone try that with me. I'd be walking out the door in the time they spent picking their teeth up from the floor. If they threatened to call the cops I would ask them what the term unlawful confinement meant to them.

Including tips on the bill should be a crime in itself. If you are going to do that you might as well pay a real wage and have teh menu price reflect that. It's deceptive pricing at it's very worst.

Well, I was a white guy in South Africa and much as I love certain aspects of the country it has a teensy weensy issue with racism in all directions. Starting a fight or calling the cops was a gamble I didn't want to take.

In other words they had you at a disadvantage. Question, did they at least PROMINENTLY advise somewhere that the grat was auto charged?

No but it is pretty much the culture there.

 

[jklinders]

I tip because I'm scared of entitled people tampering with my food, and because I'm scared of what society will think of me if I don't play along.

It's a bit like leaving a gift at the altar of the GLORIOUS LEADER in North Korea. You do it out of fear and because you'll be punished if you don't.

This. I had the gall to refuse to tip at a restaurant once when it was included on the bill because my service was absolutely atrocious, the staff physically stopped me from leaving until I agreed to pay. Robbery. If you get paid shitty wages, form a fucking union or something. Besides, if tips don't make up minimum wage, doesn't the employer have to top the rest up anyway?

For real? I would just love to see someone try that with me. I'd be walking out the door in the time they spent picking their teeth up from the floor. If they threatened to call the cops I would ask them what the term unlawful confinement meant to them.

Including tips on the bill should be a crime in itself. If you are going to do that you might as well pay a real wage and have teh menu price reflect that. It's deceptive pricing at it's very worst.

Well, I was a white guy in South Africa and much as I love certain aspects of the country it has a teensy weensy issue with racism in all directions. Starting a fight or calling the cops was a gamble I didn't want to take.

In other words they had you at a disadvantage. Question, did they at least PROMINENTLY advise somewhere that the grat was auto charged?

No but it is pretty much the culture there.

That's what I'm talking about. I don't know the law there but the law here (Canada) is that if it's not posted and shown to be a charge they cannot insist on it legally. I feel for you as that sucks.

 

[The Bucket]

As a former server, I tip depending on the level of service I get in relation to how busy it is. I have left a few cents tip before. In my defense, it was REALLY BAD SERVICE and the restaurant was dead (as in my server only had me and my friend in their section and we couldn't get our server to get us refills and shit so really bad service). I did feel kind of bad about it as I know minimum wage sucks and you can't live off of it, however, I believe if you want a decent tip, you need to at least TRY to give decent service. I regularly go out to a restaurant once a month with a large group of friends. We all split our checks and we all tip. My regular order comes out to about $16.00. We usually get really good service. As I don't have a lot of money to spend I can't tip as much as I really want to and I feel bad. However, going by a 15% tip, I tip almost double what I should be tipping (hand server $20 tell them to keep the change). However, at that restaurant we also get REALLY good service too no matter how busy they are. Personally, had I the money, I'd do at least an $8 tip because our two servers we usually get deserve that for how hard they work and how great they are. That said, if I don't have money to order something and leave a tip (I've left tips on water before because that's all I ordered and felt bad that it was all I ordered so I left about the price of a soda which was all I had on me), I typically don't go out to a restaurant.

I judge others on how they tip as well. I've met people who boast proudly that they never tip because of how easy it is to be a server (at which I've interjected and put my personal experiences to them and some have actually changed their policy on tipping because some people are just ignorant and don't know better). My best tip I've ever gotten was from two guys who one ordered a double crown and coke and the other a double jack and coke. Double jack and coke guy was an asshole (amusing but still an ass) and treated me like I wasnt wearing anything(I had steel toe boots on, loose trousers-like loose in the legs not form fitting, and a loose shirt that was buttoned up to my collarbone and the sleeves went to my elbows) but double crown and coke guy was really nice, apologised for his friends behaviour and gave me a $100 bill and told me to keep the change. Unfortunately at that job I was lucky to walk away with $5 in tips for the night (we were expected to tip our bartenders out of our tips) for most nights because my managers hated me and put me in terrible sections. As someone who has worked their ass off going through a crowd with a heavy tray of drinks and food and only gotten $1 tip on a $40-50 meal I know how much it sucks.

If a restaurant is visibly busy and I see the server making the attempt to do their best (y'know not intentionally ignoring their tables or anything) I'll tip well. However if the server is just ignoring their tables and doing the bare minimum I won't. But that's my general rule. Make the attempt get a decent to great tip. Don't make the attempt get anywhere from nothing to bare minimum for tips.

I've never been able to understand what about the food industry is special? I'd never suggest waiting tables is an easy or unworthy job, but there are plenty of difficult jobs that pay way less than they should, but I assume you'd never judge someone who didnt tip a (non commission) sales assistant. I usually tip a bit for exceptional service, but not for adequate/average service. Because in every other line of work you dont do a good job because you might get extra cash, you do a good job because its your job.

 

[Blow_Pop]

I've never been able to understand what about the food industry is special? I'd never suggest waiting tables is an easy or unworthy job, but there are plenty of difficult jobs that pay way less than they should, but I assume you'd never judge someone who didnt tip a (non commission) sales assistant. I usually tip a bit for exceptional service, but not for adequate/average service. Because in every other line of work you dont do a good job because you might get extra cash, you do a good job because its your job.

It's the fact that minimum wage isn't enough to live on and and sales assistants (typically depending on where you are) make enough to actually live on.

California's minimum wage just went up to $9 an hour. That's not enough to live on even working a 40 hour work week. Technically, you're actually suppose to tip MOST service industry professionals. But it's mostly applied to servers and bartenders from what I've seen. And I actually judge everyone. As it isn't technically customary to tip non commissioned sales assistants, no I don't tip them. Then again, they don't typically get paid federal minimum wage or less. They get paid California's minimum wage. A disturbing amount of restaurants out here will only pay federal minimum wage for servers which with the wage increase is $1.75 or so less than minimum wage. Yeah they are technically "unskilled workers" by classification but to get a job in it out here you have to have a minimum of somewhere between 2 and 5 years of experience in it. Then again, this thread has already made the point repeatedly that America really doesn't care about most of the country. Otherwise we'd be paid fair living wages and would probably actually have universal health care.

 

[AntiChri5]

I've never been able to understand what about the food industry is special? I'd never suggest waiting tables is an easy or unworthy job, but there are plenty of difficult jobs that pay way less than they should, but I assume you'd never judge someone who didnt tip a (non commission) sales assistant. I usually tip a bit for exceptional service, but not for adequate/average service. Because in every other line of work you dont do a good job because you might get extra cash, you do a good job because its your job.

It's the fact that minimum wage isn't enough to live on and and sales assistants (typically depending on where you are) make enough to actually live on.

That sounds like a problem with the minimum wage, not the customer. A minimum wage that is wisely recognised as not enough to live on defeats the purpose of a minimum wage.

 

[Blow_Pop]

I've never been able to understand what about the food industry is special? I'd never suggest waiting tables is an easy or unworthy job, but there are plenty of difficult jobs that pay way less than they should, but I assume you'd never judge someone who didnt tip a (non commission) sales assistant. I usually tip a bit for exceptional service, but not for adequate/average service. Because in every other line of work you dont do a good job because you might get extra cash, you do a good job because its your job.

It's the fact that minimum wage isn't enough to live on and and sales assistants (typically depending on where you are) make enough to actually live on.

That sounds like a problem with the minimum wage, not the customer. A minimum wage that is wisely recognised as not enough to live on defeats the purpose of a minimum wage.

It does until you get the elitist pieces of shit who you work your literal ass off to do everything in your power to make them have an enjoyable evening then them tell you that though they recognise you worked hard service industry people don't deserve tips because they're not in the rich elitist class that they belong to or some other bullshit like that (actually has been said to me before and they weren't foreigners, they were from the US)

 

[Evil Smurf]

I don't tip, but only because I live in Australia, because we get paid a livable wage.

 

[AnarchistFish]

nah, I'm a student and i cbf with that shit

 

[Imperioratorex Caprae]

As an American I tip when there isn't a gratuity included in the bill and if the server doesn't decide to be an ass. As a former server, I know the difficulties of the job and all but the first rule of any customer service job is to put up a false front and never let the job or people get to you. I found the best way to deal with rude customers is be extra nice to the point of sickeningly sweet. Either they'll continue to harass you (at which point a manager should be involved) or they'll leave you alone.
Most of the time I tip with the rare exception of a horrible server who will usually get a small note attached to the bill regarding their lack of good service and a real "tip" or two on how to improve and get better monetary tips. If they don't take the advice they probably won't last long in the job anyway.

 

[Flames66]

However, when a consumer goes to a restaurant there are two components to their night out: product and service. The price of the former is fixed, but the consumer is given the ability to decide the price of the second based on what sort of experience they have. This is where the disconnect often occurs. Consumers see gratuities as a sort of reward (as they are in places like Great Britain and Ireland) while employees see them as being fairly compensated for services rendered.

This is where the cultural difference rears its top hatted head. Where I live, the minimum wage applies to the service industry, so I know the person serving me is being properly payed. If they went above and beyond what I payed for, I will let them keep the change. Otherwise I will pay the listed price and nothing more.

I would also do this out of principal in countries where tipping is customary. It is the same principal that would not allow me to shop in places that do not calculate VAT/sales tax as part of the total price, the price written on the label/menu/list is all I will pay.

On a side note, you have triggered a relapse into my ongoing crusade against the word "consumer". It is an insulting term that degrades the entire human race, please don't use it.

I only really tip if it is a case of telling a staff member to "keep the change" or if I feel they've really gone beyond the call of duty for their line of work. For example if I ordered a pizza on New Years Eve i'd tip the delivery guy for it.

This thread appears to have been posted at the perfect time for me to be ninjad by every British Escapist about.

 

[FoolKiller]

I tend to tip rather well, but I don't agree with the custom at all.

In places like North America, servers are paid less than minimum wage which I think is horrendous. To compound that problem there exists tip splitting and even owners getting in on the action legally or otherwise. I've even heard of restaurants where the owners took it out of the workers less than min wage if the server didn't have enough tips. But this is a digression.

The main points I have are:
1. Servers should be paid minimum wage. It's ridiculous to be paid less.
2. I completely disagree with paying a percentage of the meal. It's ludicrous that the server who brings me my beverage and 10 dollar chicken breast deserves only 1/4 of the tip that a server who brings me a 40 dollar steak gets.
3. In many cultures, tipping is considered offensive.
4. I also hate the concept of instant gratuity for a group of 4 or more. Why is it any different that 2 tables of 2 people? And its at 15% in many places where I live.
5. Even more infuriating is tipping a bartender. While he/she can mix drinks and does serve me, the establishment should pay them well considering the ridiculous mark up of alcohol in many venues.

 

[Treeinthewoods]

I always tip, severs need it to survive inthe US. And I prefer tipping to raising minimum wage because I sincerely hope the server doesn't declare all the tip as income and prevents the government from getting anything for them. Paying a higher wage would increase the price of the food and increase government revenue. I feel like if the government needs revenue they should increase taxes on the wealthy as opposed to the working class.

As for fearing food tampering I have never seen that and I worked in the industry for years and have multiple friends who still do. Food tampering is an instant firing and is generally understood to be just a completely messed up thing to do. Nobody deserves that, even a cheap ass. Typically all that happens to a known poor tipper is they get slower service all around while the more important tables get priority.

 

[otakon17]

I've got a step-mother that waits tables and makes more than me in tips. But that's because she's friendly and makes sure her customers are treated right. My mother has served tables too. BOTH of them have explained to me that tips are the lifeblood of servers usually because of their poor up-front pay. They also taught me that the 3+ hours you spend sitting at a servers table are worth an extra $5-$10 bucks out of you(if you're in a group) since in that time they could have had maybe six more groups come through with minimal tips. And having worked on the other side of the window, yeah I tip when I can even if my food is only a few bucks. Servers put up with a LOT of shit in general so they deserve it in general. Sure, you'll get really lousy servers but even them I throw a buck or two if only to maybe encourage them to put more effort into their work and attitude, especially if it stems from long hours and low pay.

In short, I tip on a regular basis even if it's not a huge amount.

 

[Vareoth]

Tipping is not really that prevalent here in the Netherlands. When someone does tip it will be no more than 5 to 10 percent. Personally, I generally do tip when service has been good. And I am easily pleased.

 

[MoNKeyYy]

Do you feel you always deserve a tip, or only when you feel you have done a good job?

Hmm, this is a touch question. Yes and no. Am I always entitled to a tip? Yes. I have to contribute 5% or more of my total sales to the house so that support staff, kitchen staff and bartenders (although to be fair, this is often me) can receive what their due for their contribution the guest's experience. By not tipping you, you're effectively making me pay for the privilege of serving you. You can argue as much as you want that this is a problem inherent to a system you don't want to support, but it doesn't change to consequence that I'm getting screwed because you didn't want to pay (not you obviously, this is in no way an attack on you, Houseman. Just "you" as in people in general).However, am I always entitled to a good tip? Hell no. I will openly admit that unfortunately, there are times I've totally dropped the proverbial ball and given terribly bad service. Never with a bad attitude, and never without apology, but bad service nevertheless. On those occasions, I got a bad tip and I knew fully well that I got exactly what I deserved.

Do you take a lower tip as a "performance review", or just evidence of a "cheapskate"?

Again, the answer is both. This one is hugely dependant on circumstance. The thing is, you generally know when you've done a good job and hope your tip will reflect that. When you don't get a good tip, you go through and try to figure out why. An experienced server has a mental checklist for good service, so many will just go down the list. Did I get everything right? Yes. Was my service prompt? Yes. Did I give you good advice about drinks and food that led to you having a better experience? Yes. Did I keep your glasses full? Yes. Did you genuinely enjoy my company? Yes. If my checklist is coming up all green and you still tip me poorly, it's because you're cheap. But when I see that something on my checklist is red, I recognize that I've done something wrong which, though it doesn't seem like a big deal to me, must have been a big deal to the guest. So bad tips are less a performance review per say, and more an opportunity to reflect on the service you've given. Interpreting all bad tips as a poor service review will quickly make you disillusioned as you constantly chase a rainbow that will never arrive (i.e. everyone giving a good tip) but using bad tips as an opportunity for reflection will help make you better at your job.

How do you view the tip itself? As a mandatory payment for services rendered, or a gift?

7

Well, I've sort of already talked about this. I see tips as payment, in a very pure sense of the word. My low wage and the low wages of literally everyone in the restaurant subsidize your cheap meal with huge portions. I work at a restaurant with extremely generous portion sizes and, though the food has a significant dollar amount pricetag you get a lot of bang for your buck. All that is possible because my wage, and the wages of the rest of the staff are kept low. This is also possible because food is only one half of the equation. When you eat out at a full service restaurant you pay for both the service and the product. The food obviously is the product, and the price for the food pays for of course the product, the kitchen wages, rent, utilities, management and all the other sort of normal business type things you tend to think of. So the price for the product is fixed to accommodate all of these expenses that restaurants need to consider. Service however is a different story. Service is the other half of the equation, and in this case the customer has total control over what they pay based on how much they think the service provider deserves. It's a very pure expression of capitalism, one where the middle men are left, payment is kept entirely between the customer and the service provider and the customer has total freedom to pay exactly as much as they think the service provider deserves. And this isn't just my philosophy, this is the reality of how running a restaurant works (take it from someone who's done it). So because of that, I see tipping as a mandatory (but discretionary) payment for service, not as a kindness done as a reward.

How do you view the concept of tipping? Do you think it's fair to everyone involved, or would you rather see it abolished and replaced with systems in other industries?

This is tricky too =P I like the system personally. I make decent money and I enjoy the purity of the server-customer interaction as it works in theory. Too often I think people demonize the system of tipping as being a way for restaurant owners to screw their employees when in fact the system is designed with the intention of empowering consumers to pay what they feel is deserved and expanding earning opportunities for servers. However, I fully admit that this is easy for me to say in a rich city with a booming economy, and for people in a struggling economy the employee will often be screwed by customers and management alike. I like the system. And I would likely vote to preserve it, if pressed. But I understand and empathize with the complaints leveled against it, especially by customers who find it to be disingenuous and underhanded.

And what of pre-paying and thus pre-tipping when you order delivery online before you even experience the service?

Honestly I can't say. I don't have really any experience with this kind of system. I order pizza from time to time, but when I do I don't think tips are ever included in the ordering process, and is instead left to the discretion of the customer upon arrival. From what you say, I don't like the sounds of it. But I would need more information before I could give an answer.