That's the catch. You can't. It would be against safety codes to let customers into the kitchen for any reason (most places won't allow their own staff into the kitchen if they are not on shift). That's where the expectancy comes in. The management expects you to pay the servers, because you can't serve yourself. Servers expect payment, because they are doing work above and beyond the job in which they want to be paid for. There were some places in the US that were putting computers on the tables so the guests could order themselves and a food runner would bring the meal. I would agree to not tipping a food runner (they usually make a higher wage. Ours made $8/hour), they do not wait on the table, only bring the food.Molikroth said:
Poll: Tipping in restaurants
- Thread starter Molikroth
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mkb07a - I'm not complaining about immigrant employees. Well, except ones working in call centers, but I feel justified there. I'm only saying if people stopped tipping, wait staff would go get better-paying jobs and be replaced by immigrants, who're willing to work for next to nothing. I'm not saying that's a bad thing.
Lead Fox - in my misanthropy I'd actually prefer to order over a computer and have a faceless runner bring it to me, rather than a waiter. Therefore, I'm going to continue to withhold tips, both to be the spiteful bad gamble and now also to attempt to make life for servers as horrible as possible, in the hopes of runners one day being implemented here.
Lead Fox - in my misanthropy I'd actually prefer to order over a computer and have a faceless runner bring it to me, rather than a waiter. Therefore, I'm going to continue to withhold tips, both to be the spiteful bad gamble and now also to attempt to make life for servers as horrible as possible, in the hopes of runners one day being implemented here.
Fair enough on the call center thing (customer service from Toshiba, anyone? Anyone?), and I see your point, I just don't think it necessarily validates your argument. Yes, if everyone stopped tipping, eventually people would seek employment elsewhere, and there could be a potential employment crisis in the restaurant business, but how long would that take? You have to take into account just how long it takes to get a job, particularly in bigger cities in the US, that provide a wage high enough to live on (a "living wage"). People will stay with crappy jobs because they can't afford to be unemployed for two weeks, or they'll keep that job and take another to make up the difference. It's a vicious cycle in the US of poverty and the lack of a living wage, and even if tipping stopped, not everyone who's a server would just up and leave.Molikroth said:
Furthermore, what makes you think illegal immigrants would be able to step up into the server role? Most immigrants in the restaurant business are on the extremes, meaning they're busboys cleaning up your food or they're the chefs preparing your food. I know they work for less, and I know they'll take the jobs no one else will, but the lack of tipping leading to immigrants filling that vacuum is a slippery slope of injustice and fails to address the fact that it's still not right for an illegal immigrant to make only $2.15 an hour for serving you, just as it's not right for a college student to only make $2.15 an hour for serving you (negating tips). They'll take the job, as anyone who needs money would, but if you take away the tips, you make it extremely difficult to get by, regardless of who they are or their citizenship status in this country.
The part about immigrant workers was an aside, not the point or part of one. Rather than say "Restaurants would be screwed" I mentioned they might survive - just with a lot more Spanish being spoken.
I'm not a US citizen and have no idea how it works, but over here you have the option of taking "Jobseeker's Allowance", which is a benefit ("Welfare") whereby the local authority provides you with $90 a week (depending on your family status - I live alone and so don't know how it'd have worked if I had a partner, employed or otherwise) to buy food and pay your utility bills while you seek work, as well as entitling you to "housing benefit", which pays your rent for you.
I'm not a US citizen and have no idea how it works, but over here you have the option of taking "Jobseeker's Allowance", which is a benefit ("Welfare") whereby the local authority provides you with $90 a week (depending on your family status - I live alone and so don't know how it'd have worked if I had a partner, employed or otherwise) to buy food and pay your utility bills while you seek work, as well as entitling you to "housing benefit", which pays your rent for you.
For good service I'll give some change I had in my pocket. Never more than £5 or 10% though.
For satisfactory service I'll pay the bill and no more, this includes not paying "service charge" tacked on to the bill.
For bad service, or anything else that makes my time spent in the restaurant unpleasant, I will ask to speak to the manager, and explain to them why I am refusing to pay for the meal.
Furthermore, there is no reason why I would return to a restaurant I didn't feel tip-worthy.
For satisfactory service I'll pay the bill and no more, this includes not paying "service charge" tacked on to the bill.
For bad service, or anything else that makes my time spent in the restaurant unpleasant, I will ask to speak to the manager, and explain to them why I am refusing to pay for the meal.
Furthermore, there is no reason why I would return to a restaurant I didn't feel tip-worthy.
My father and I always talk about a "Tip O' Meter" when we are in a Restaurant. It's like a taxi cab's meter, but it goes down every time you hit the button on top, and you hit it when you feel the waiting staff/other workers fuck something up.
Talking about tipping being illegal or mandatory is destroying what a tip really is.
It's you giving some other person some money. It is, originally, an unofficial business between you and the waiter. If you wish to give no money, then don't tip. If you do, then do tip. It's not much of a dilemma.
The fact that tips are a feature of our culture does not make them mandatory. They're an act of kindness, and even if it is expected to tip, it remains an act of kindness. Being mandatory will simply turn a tip into a tax, and being illegal would make it so that a simple act of kindness is unacceptable.
Don't overcomplicate life.
It's you giving some other person some money. It is, originally, an unofficial business between you and the waiter. If you wish to give no money, then don't tip. If you do, then do tip. It's not much of a dilemma.
The fact that tips are a feature of our culture does not make them mandatory. They're an act of kindness, and even if it is expected to tip, it remains an act of kindness. Being mandatory will simply turn a tip into a tax, and being illegal would make it so that a simple act of kindness is unacceptable.
Don't overcomplicate life.
I'll tip, but to round out my tab. so say my food is 13, I'll tip 7 to make it an even 20.
if the food is 19, sucks to be you, 1.
If the waiter/waitress is good, then I will actually tip
if the food is 19, sucks to be you, 1.
If the waiter/waitress is good, then I will actually tip
I agree that that kind of profiteering should be illegal, but you have to understand that if they payed the servers a normal wage it wouldbeddo said:
A) Still only be the NORMAL minimum wage, and
B) It will still be coming out of the customers wallets, not the companies. Meals will simply cost more.
Thats due to a few things. One being that, as I stated before, restaurants aren't very profitable unless you own a big chain or are ridiculously overpriced. The other problem here, one thats causing problems in many parts of the American economy right now, is corporate greed. Executives are getting paid ludicrous salaries these days. Many easily clearing the 7 digit mark, and that first digit isn't a 1.
Tipping allows you to give that money DIRECTLY to the people that need it. Also you can change it based on what you think the server earns. This leads to better service. If tipping were removed and the servers paid a flat rate by their employers, servers wouldn't care. They would get the same pay whether they did a great job, or did just enough not to get fired. Plus a meal that used to cost you $10 will now cost you $15-$25, and I would bet on it being on the high side of that range.
Lucan - when I pay for something I am giving up all claims to the cash. That means I have no interest in where it goes next, outside of avoiding "fair trade" produce.
Whether or not my waiter will be alive tomorrow doesn't make it onto my list of things that will bother me at any point. Nor does whether or not his boss will get that nice sports car he's been eyeing.
Therefore, whether or not the waiter "needs" a tip more than his boss "needs" a seven-figure check is completely irrelevant to me when I eat out, and it baffles me that others care about it enough to put themselves out of pocket.
Whether or not my waiter will be alive tomorrow doesn't make it onto my list of things that will bother me at any point. Nor does whether or not his boss will get that nice sports car he's been eyeing.
Therefore, whether or not the waiter "needs" a tip more than his boss "needs" a seven-figure check is completely irrelevant to me when I eat out, and it baffles me that others care about it enough to put themselves out of pocket.
Please don't do that, servers have it bad enough as it is. We need that tip money to live.Molikroth said:
And another note to those of you that think not tipping will drive servers to go find better jobs, you should know that you're not doing anything that isn't already happening. Most servers hate their jobs. I've ALWAYS been trying to find a new job outside the food service industry. You have to understand that its very difficult to get out of when its the only thing on your resume. If you're like me and have no way of going to college also, its almost impossible to get out. If every costumer I had stopped tipping me, I would try to find another job (I already am), but would more likely just end up homeless.
I don't go out to eat unless I can afford to leave a tip. (I'm not dirt-ass poor...so it's yet to stop me from going out to eat.) I generally tip well, unless I feel the service was unsatisfactory. As long as you do your job, don't leave my food sitting getting cold while you take a phone call, stuff like that, you're probably going to get a 20% tip from me. But bad service makes it go down REAL fast.
If I'm at a bar, I generally find a female bartender, order a round of drinks for myself and my friends, and leave a 20 dollar tip. Doesn't matter how busy the bar is, for the rest of the night as soon as I walk up she'll be there to ask what I need. (And I'll still tip $1 or so per drink for the rest of the night.) My bar drinking nights get expensive quick, but I don't go to bars often, so it's worth it to never have to wait 10 minutes (or more...believe it or not Burlington Vermont bars can get packed...) for a drink.
But, that being said, I'd agree that people that refuse to tip at all, despite good service, kinda make me upset too. It's an accepted norm...just get used to it. And it sounds like that's the people you're talking about, so my rant isn't necessarily directed towards you.
If I'm at a bar, I generally find a female bartender, order a round of drinks for myself and my friends, and leave a 20 dollar tip. Doesn't matter how busy the bar is, for the rest of the night as soon as I walk up she'll be there to ask what I need. (And I'll still tip $1 or so per drink for the rest of the night.) My bar drinking nights get expensive quick, but I don't go to bars often, so it's worth it to never have to wait 10 minutes (or more...believe it or not Burlington Vermont bars can get packed...) for a drink.
Like I said, I generally tip pretty well, but I kind of have a problem with this attitude. I don't believe people should feel pressured to tip. The fact may be that you need that money, but it should be incentive for you to do a good job. If I do crap work in my job, I'm likely going to not get paid either.Lucan Desmond said:
But, that being said, I'd agree that people that refuse to tip at all, despite good service, kinda make me upset too. It's an accepted norm...just get used to it. And it sounds like that's the people you're talking about, so my rant isn't necessarily directed towards you.
In that case they'd be doing you a favour. I spent four months homeless and it was the best thing that ever happened to me - well, it was the direct cause of it anyway.LucanDesmond said:
Being homeless puts you in an "at risk" category, meaning you have access to resources and help you wouldn't get otherwise. For example, During the four months I spent in a hostel, I was inundated with social workers, benefit advisers, career advisers and the like.
There really is a lot out there to help those homeless or at risk of becoming homeless, which is a reason I also don't give guys in the street money - sometimes I buy their dogs a packet of food and feed it to them myself, but I wouldn't enable the guy. If I thought it'd achieve anything I'd have the SSPCA on him as well.
EDIT: This is the UK, by the by. Not sure how it works in the land of burger-flavoured oxygen.
Being English 10% is the most i tip, it's what the middle and lower class are taught to tip here
People should put in their prices what they want rather than expecting people to just GIVE it to them
A resteraunt EXPECTING you to tip is just a hidden charge to my eyes (i.e. buying a car and THEN being told you have to pay for the interior furbishment)
Be up-front with what you want in the price you're charging me and i'll probably give it to you
Accept that if i tip it's a thankyou, that you should be grateful and we'll get along just fine
What's the average minimum wage in america?
People should put in their prices what they want rather than expecting people to just GIVE it to them
A resteraunt EXPECTING you to tip is just a hidden charge to my eyes (i.e. buying a car and THEN being told you have to pay for the interior furbishment)
Be up-front with what you want in the price you're charging me and i'll probably give it to you
Accept that if i tip it's a thankyou, that you should be grateful and we'll get along just fine
What's the average minimum wage in america?
Well, yeah. I like to think I'm pretty patient and forgiving. I always try to remember that the waiter is at work - I have bad days and fuck up at work sometimes, and I hope that people will just give me a break and not get too upset about it, so I try to do the same. Only if it's obvious that they just don't give a damn and aren't trying at all will I not tip.axia777 said:
The federal minimum wage is $6.55/hr, going up to 7-something in July '09. Some states have increased minimum wages though, i know here in VT it's like $7.95/hr.Fruhstuck said:
However, for tipped employees, the US Department of Labor states :
" According to the Fair Labor Standards Act, tipped employees are individuals engaged in occupations in which they customarily and regularly receive more than $30 a month in tips. The employer may consider tips as part of wages, but the employer must pay at least $2.13 an hour in direct wages.
An employer may credit a portion of a tipped employee's tips against the federal minimum wage of $6.55 per hour effective July 24, 2008. An employer must pay at least $2.13 per hour. However, if an employee's tips combined with the employer's wage of $2.13 per hour do not equal the hourly minimum wage, the employer is required to make up the difference."