Poll: Torture and criminal justice (possibly nsfw)

[Ancientgamer]

Soo... what are we calling torture here? I can't say I condone torture at all. But then, I don't really consider getting shoved around, sleep deprevation, or waterboarding torture at all.

 

[JoshasorousRex]

Well if you torture someone for a confession they are probably lying that they did because they don't want to get tortured anymore. And extracting information, what if the person doesn't know any useful information.

Interrogator: "Tell us now Bob!!"

Torturee: "Alright ok!! I like pie.."

Interrogator: "what...?"

 

[Graustein]

I believe there is nothing wrong with torturing terrorists. They have no regard for human life, they do not care who they kill, so I say we can do whatever we want with them, especially if they hold information that could lead to the prevention of an attack. Torture has helped in information gathering, it is essential if they refuse to cooperate by other means, and I dont give a shit if its mean, terrorists are evil, they deserve it.

All the crap about the US torturing terrorists being horrible how we violate the geneva convention, um no we dont. It only applies to combatants of a country, which means if they dont wear a uniform and/or signed up in a countries military, they dont have any rights.

You're a Nazi, congratulations.

And yes, I'm aware I just demonstrated Godwin's law, and now I feel dirty.

Wow nice argument, didnt need to try hard did you? Now we know that torturing a person to get critical information out of them to stop an attack that wants to kill innocent people is just as bad as killing 6 million men, women, and children.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/11/28/AR2008112802242.html
Torture for interrogation doesn't work. It is counterproductive in that not only is it not effective in extracting information, but it will also lead the relatives of those tortured to become terrorists. So we get more terrorists on our hands. Believe it or not, they're just as human as we are, and if you keep treating them like subhuman monsters that's how they're going to act.
How can you condone inhumane tactics and still maintain that you're the ones with the moral high ground?

 

[Maze1125]

Innocent before proven guilty, torture cannot be justified unless guilt is already ascertained and even then it's unethical and immoral.

You know for once, I wish people would stop talking about how it's wrong to do something because of some twisted personal notion of these so called ethics or morality. Is it ethics and morality that causes people to bomb abortion clinics and kill doctors? Is it ethics and morality that causes YOUR tax money to fund murderers for a life in prison?

How dare of any of us question law enforcers or soldiers on the way they perform their duties? How can of any of us have the audacity to throw opinions around from the comfort of our homes when there are men and women out there who need forcefully extracted information to save more lives?

You don't like it? Tough. You're not the one putting your life on the line for others. Don't presume to tell those that do how best to run their jobs without treading on "human rights".

How about you go and get detained and tortured for months, without charge, for information you don't even know.
Then we'll see who's complaining about human rights violations.

 

[The Wooster]

"Hello! I'm Ivan Dobsky. I'm the Meat-Safe Murderer, only I never done it. I only said I done it so they'd take my willy out of the light socket!"

I only said that I done it cos they said they'd give me back me fingernails.

 

[SmugFrog]

Confessions from shoplifters? Seriously?

 

[Ancientgamer]

Innocent before proven guilty, torture cannot be justified unless guilt is already ascertained and even then it's unethical and immoral.

You know for once, I wish people would stop talking about how it's wrong to do something because of some twisted personal notion of these so called ethics or morality. Is it ethics and morality that causes people to bomb abortion clinics and kill doctors? Is it ethics and morality that causes YOUR tax money to fund murderers for a life in prison?

How dare of any of us question law enforcers or soldiers on the way they perform their duties? How can of any of us have the audacity to throw opinions around from the comfort of our homes when there are men and women out there who need forcefully extracted information to save more lives?

You don't like it? Tough. You're not the one putting your life on the line for others. Don't presume to tell those that do how best to run their jobs without treading on "human rights".

How about you go and get detained and tortured for months, without charge, for information you don't even know.
Then we'll see who's complaining about human rights violations.

You're assuming they don't know anything. IIRC, this so called "torture" has been used on all of 14 extremely high level prisoners, who were wanted before they're capture and we know have information. Also, though I'm not doubting you, because I don't really know for sure, but what makes you think active "torture" lasts for months?

 

[theultimateend]

I think they should bring back the death penalty in England crime rates would plumit.

Yeah because the Death Penalty has been linked with a reduction in crime.

Not like there are hundreds of cases of people stealing in countries where they cut off your hands until they have no hand to lose.

Likewise Torture gets you bad information, we already have a freaking lie detector that works well in stressful situations. Which for anyone that's been in a lie detector...even when you haven't done anything you still get all sweaty .

Which is fine because at least for me it came out to show I was being honest . Although I felt like vomiting after .

Extra Note in caps for funsies: TORTURE IS NEVER OK, IT ALMOST NEVER PRODUCES USABLE INFORMATION, AND IT ALSO MAKES YOUR COUNTRY LOOK LIKE A BIG SLOPPY DONKEY DICK.

If you want the world to hate you, torture people, then when your country gets attacked see how many people have sympathy for you. 0 <--- This many.

Torture is proven not to work. People will just make up or blurt out false or useless information just to get the torture to stop. If you really can't wrap your head around this you've probably seen too many action movies/jingoistic war films.

I blurt out lies just to get people to stop tickle torturing me.

If it were REAL torture I'd be accusing anyone they wanted me to.

 

[Maze1125]

Innocent before proven guilty, torture cannot be justified unless guilt is already ascertained and even then it's unethical and immoral.

You know for once, I wish people would stop talking about how it's wrong to do something because of some twisted personal notion of these so called ethics or morality. Is it ethics and morality that causes people to bomb abortion clinics and kill doctors? Is it ethics and morality that causes YOUR tax money to fund murderers for a life in prison?

How dare of any of us question law enforcers or soldiers on the way they perform their duties? How can of any of us have the audacity to throw opinions around from the comfort of our homes when there are men and women out there who need forcefully extracted information to save more lives?

You don't like it? Tough. You're not the one putting your life on the line for others. Don't presume to tell those that do how best to run their jobs without treading on "human rights".

How about you go and get detained and tortured for months, without charge, for information you don't even know.
Then we'll see who's complaining about human rights violations.

You're assuming they don't know anything. IIRC, this so called "torture" has been used on all of 14 extremely high level prisoners, who were wanted before they're capture and we know have information. Also, though I'm not doubting you, because I don't really know for sure, but what makes you think active "torture" lasts for months?

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28144557/

"The auditory assault went on for days, then weeks, then months at the U.S. military detention center in Iraq."

 

[theultimateend]

Innocent before proven guilty, torture cannot be justified unless guilt is already ascertained and even then it's unethical and immoral.

You know for once, I wish people would stop talking about how it's wrong to do something because of some twisted personal notion of these so called ethics or morality. Is it ethics and morality that causes people to bomb abortion clinics and kill doctors? Is it ethics and morality that causes YOUR tax money to fund murderers for a life in prison?

How dare of any of us question law enforcers or soldiers on the way they perform their duties? How can of any of us have the audacity to throw opinions around from the comfort of our homes when there are men and women out there who need forcefully extracted information to save more lives?

You don't like it? Tough. You're not the one putting your life on the line for others. Don't presume to tell those that do how best to run their jobs without treading on "human rights".

How about you go and get detained and tortured for months, without charge, for information you don't even know.
Then we'll see who's complaining about human rights violations.

You're assuming they don't know anything. IIRC, this so called "torture" has been used on all of 14 extremely high level prisoners, who were wanted before they're capture and we know have information. Also, though I'm not doubting you, because I don't really know for sure, but what makes you think active "torture" lasts for months?

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28144557/

"The auditory assault went on for days, then weeks, then months at the U.S. military detention center in Iraq."

The best part is there is going to be at least one person who responds with something like "What do News agencies know."

That's the response I got when I was discussing something on another of these escapist threads and I posted 4 separate news agencies all reporting contradictory information to the poster.

Likewise I posted the wiki with 4-6 sources all saying contradictory things to the poster.

Their response to me "Those people all have an agenda so that information isn't valid."

I stopped going to that thread of course.

Course with a name like "Cleverlymadeup" you kinda gotta figure where they get their facts from.

Also I said no to torture because its stupid and ineffective not because its 'evil'.

 

[NXMT]

How about you go and get detained and tortured for months, without charge, for information you don't even know.
Then we'll see who's complaining about human rights violations.

I wouldn't like to fined or incarcerated for downloading full albums and movies and then selling them for a buck each. Should I also campaign against it?

 

[DannyBoy451]

I believe there is nothing wrong with torturing terrorists. They have no regard for human life, they do not care who they kill, so I say we can do whatever we want with them, especially if they hold information that could lead to the prevention of an attack. Torture has helped in information gathering, it is essential if they refuse to cooperate by other means, and I dont give a shit if its mean, terrorists are evil, they deserve it.

All the crap about the US torturing terrorists being horrible how we violate the geneva convention, um no we dont. It only applies to combatants of a country, which means if they dont wear a uniform and/or signed up in a countries military, they dont have any rights.

You're a Nazi, congratulations.

And yes, I'm aware I just demonstrated Godwin's law, and now I feel dirty.

Wow nice argument, didnt need to try hard did you? Now we know that torturing a person to get critical information out of them to stop an attack that wants to kill innocent people is just as bad as killing 6 million men, women, and children.

I was being facetious, just pointing out that the Fascists, and Communists, were pretty keen on torturing people that were a threat to them as well. And torturing those freedom-hating terrorists to get information is pointless as well as inhuman, torture does not produce reliable information, they're far more likely to feed you bullshit that's going to waste your time and put more people at risk.

Also: the idea of terrorists having "no regard for human life" is complete shit, they have plenty, just none of it for you and me.

And it seems you have as little regard for their lives, so I can't really hold it against them too much

 

[Maze1125]

How about you go and get detained and tortured for months, without charge, for information you don't even know.
Then we'll see who's complaining about human rights violations.

I wouldn't like to fined or incarcerated for downloading full albums and movies and then selling them for a buck each. Should I also campaign against it?

If you think you ought to be allowed to do those things with out punishment, then yes, you should.

I personally think I ought to be able to live my life without being tortured just because someone suspected I might know something, even though they don't have any proof.
And hence I campaign against that happening to people.

 

[NXMT]

I personally think I ought to be able to live my life without being tortured just because someone suspected I might know something, even though they don't have any proof.
And hence I campaign against that happening to people.

My underlying message is that methods like torture should be regulated. Not entirely abolished.

 

[YouGetWhatsGiven]

Ok, you know that a terrorist strike is going to happen at a certain location in your countries most famous city in twenty four hours. You have a informant imprisoned. You know that he will crack if you a mild form of torture. Because of your countries laws, you can not torture him to give you his information. The plot goes forward, and kills nearly ten thousand people. Now, it may not be directly the fault of the government, but still ten thousand people are dead. Whose fault is it.

 

[Maze1125]

I personally think I ought to be able to live my life without being tortured just because someone suspected I might know something, even though they don't have any proof.
And hence I campaign against that happening to people.

My underlying message is that methods like torture should be regulated. Not entirely abolished.

Really? Because your previous message said:

How dare of any of us question law enforcers or soldiers on the way they perform their duties?

And one of the ways some soldiers have been performing their duties has been to torture people with no actual information for months without a trial.

 

[Maze1125]

Ok, you know that a terrorist strike is going to happen at a certain location in your countries most famous city in twenty four hours. You have a informant imprisoned. You know that he will crack if you a mild form of torture. Because of your countries laws, you can not torture him to give you his information. The plot goes forward, and kills nearly ten thousand people. Now, it may not be directly the fault of the government, but still ten thousand people are dead. Whose fault is it.

The terrorists that participated in the attack, obviously.

 

[Kizor]

What does that scenario have to do with the way torture can be used in real life?

I quote Bob Cochran, co-creator of 24: ?Most terrorism experts will tell you that the ?ticking time bomb? situation never occurs in real life, or very rarely. But on our show it happens every week.?

 

[YouGetWhatsGiven]

Ok, you know that a terrorist strike is going to happen at a certain location in your countries most famous city in twenty four hours. You have a informant imprisoned. You know that he will crack if you a mild form of torture. Because of your countries laws, you can not torture him to give you his information. The plot goes forward, and kills nearly ten thousand people. Now, it may not be directly the fault of the government, but still ten thousand people are dead. Whose fault is it.

The terrorists that participated in the attack, obviously.

They are going to blame the government. Death changes everything.

 

[Ancientgamer]

Innocent before proven guilty, torture cannot be justified unless guilt is already ascertained and even then it's unethical and immoral.

You know for once, I wish people would stop talking about how it's wrong to do something because of some twisted personal notion of these so called ethics or morality. Is it ethics and morality that causes people to bomb abortion clinics and kill doctors? Is it ethics and morality that causes YOUR tax money to fund murderers for a life in prison?

How dare of any of us question law enforcers or soldiers on the way they perform their duties? How can of any of us have the audacity to throw opinions around from the comfort of our homes when there are men and women out there who need forcefully extracted information to save more lives?

You don't like it? Tough. You're not the one putting your life on the line for others. Don't presume to tell those that do how best to run their jobs without treading on "human rights".

How about you go and get detained and tortured for months, without charge, for information you don't even know.
Then we'll see who's complaining about human rights violations.

You're assuming they don't know anything. IIRC, this so called "torture" has been used on all of 14 extremely high level prisoners, who were wanted before they're capture and we know have information. Also, though I'm not doubting you, because I don't really know for sure, but what makes you think active "torture" lasts for months?

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28144557/

"The auditory assault went on for days, then weeks, then months at the U.S. military detention center in Iraq."

That's not torture, that's an annoyance, and in this case sleep deprivation, but torture? no.