Poll: underage animated female characters...

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JoJo

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Alucard788 said:
I not even going to debate it anymore...it's useless.

Suffice to say why the obsession with underage nudity? Why the constant need to define, and defend it in the face of it being within a lurid context?

I mean I have an obsession with Elves and Elven culture...is it anything like that? A fascination and need to know more?

I'm not accusing, I'm just genuinely curious. I'm no longer angry I'm just...curious.

I want an honest answer.
On this site often a contenious topic that people love to argue over will become popular for a week or more as people will keep on making new threads about it to continue their side. Zombies, My Little Pony, avatar threads... all for various reasons have been popular here for a while. I saw a couple of your posts on the last thread on this topic and honestly I think it might be best for you to stay away from these threads if you really feel you can't deal with some of the replies here.
 

Jonluw

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ThatLankyBastard said:
I'm a Loli, so I may be a bit biased but I find nothing wrong with underaged characters that are animated...
I... assume you're a lolicon, not a loli?
 

TheMagicIndian

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creationis apostate said:
TheMagicIndian said:
If it's Japanese in origin and the character is portrayed as a young, sexy girl, it's probably because the age of consent over there is 13-18. There really is no problem at all with it if you put it in context with the creator's origins.

OT, I don't give a shit cuz they aren't real. Besides, isn't Austrailia one of those crotchety old man governments that ban anything that has boobs or gore that isn't a movie?
The age of consent in Japan is 20.
http://www.avert.org/age-of-consent.htm

"Although the age of sexual consent in Japan is 13 years of age, prefecture law usually overrides federal law, raising the age up to 18."

Unless it was changed recently, there ya go.
 

Alucard788

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JoJoDeathunter said:
Alucard788 said:
I not even going to debate it anymore...it's useless.

Suffice to say why the obsession with underage nudity? Why the constant need to define, and defend it in the face of it being within a lurid context?

I mean I have an obsession with Elves and Elven culture...is it anything like that? A fascination and need to know more?

I'm not accusing, I'm just genuinely curious. I'm no longer angry I'm just...curious.

I want an honest answer.
On this site often a contenious topic that people love to argue over will become popular for a week or more as people will keep on making new threads about it to continue their side. Zombies, My Little Pony, avatar threads... all for various reasons have been popular here for a while. I saw a couple of your posts on the last thread on this topic and honestly I think it might be best for you to stay away from these threads if you really feel you can't deal with some of the replies here.
I think I will...mostly because of some things I've suffered as a child myself...it really does change your perspectives on things like this. It's not that I can't deal with it...but I have been 'dealt' with it...in a way I feel most people who defend it have not...but i digress.

Suffice to say there is no 'debate' for me.

I think your right and i'll leave these threads lone. Hang out in news and games, and just check in here for other topics.

Thank you.
 

TheMagicIndian

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bahumat42 said:
TheMagicIndian said:
If it's Japanese in origin and the character is portrayed as a young, sexy girl, it's probably because the age of consent over there is 13-18. There really is no problem at all with it if you put it in context with the creator's origins.

OT, I don't give a shit cuz they aren't real. Besides, isn't Austrailia one of those crotchety old man governments that ban anything that has boobs or gore that isn't a movie?
actually ironically in regards to your statement they ban things without boobs too
http://theweek.com/article/index/105766/australias-small-breast-ban

Thought that was relevant.

Anyway as for games, aslong as it doesn't sexualise characters it shouldn't matter too much.
That is so deliciously ironic. I can't help but laugh at that.
 

9Darksoul6

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creationis apostate said:
9Darksoul6 said:
Why is pedophilia a crime? - because it damages/hurts/endangers kids.
So, the real question here is: how much does pedophilia thowards drawn people affect real kids? I'd say it doesn't affect at all, but, hey, I'm not expert.
Pedophilia is not a crime. Molesting/sexually assaulting/raping/having a relationship with someone underage is a crime.
Where I live they're treated as one and the same. I'm sorry if I ofended you.
 

CrystalShadow

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Raskolnikov34 said:
Baneat said:
Raskolnikov34 said:
Baneat said:
Raskolnikov34 said:
Eh, it doesn't exploit anyone per se, but it encourages pedophile behavior.
That's quite the statement to make, any factual evidence (Study showing correlation) to back the claim? I got curious about that, and never found evidence pointing to it. If anything it would curb an urge for some.
No, I don't have any factual evidence (I'll look for some in a second), but it seems logical.

If you let someone with anger management issues lose control constantly in harmless ways (punching inanimate objects), it doesn't curb their desire, it just gets them in the habit of giving into it. Eventually, these habits could manifest less harmlessly.

The same could be true for pedophiles, but, like I said, I don't have any studies showing correlations.
The inverse seems equally logical to me, actually, and there's a fancy name for when people get told things and go "Oh, that makes sense" - then they also get told something that's clearly "common sense logic" which contradicts the first, and that makes sense too. Which is why throwing assertions as facts is very risky indeed.
Did I do this?

My first assertion was that it could encourage pedophiles. My second assertion was an slightly more fleshed out form of this; in that I said it could get pedophiles into the habit of giving into their desires and therefore cause them to eventually act on their desires in more drastic ways, ie: actually abuse a child, or view actual pornography involving minors (I said "manifest less harmlessly", so maybe I was a bit unclear).

Those don't contradict each other in my opinion.
I don't think you're following through the logical chain of thought you're being presented with.

Your reply suggests you think it's about you contradicting your own statement, but the point being made about treating assertions as facts, which has to do with situations like the following.

Person A makes an assertion that seems logical, which person B reads and agrees with.
Person C makes another assertion which seems logical, but completely contradicts the assertion made by person A. Person B then reads this, and also agrees with it.

Yet, in having agreed with both person A, and person C, who hold mutually exclusive ideas, person B is now left with the knowledge that they cannot both be true, irrespective of how they seem logical, and a product of common sense.
If one is true, the other is not. - Therefore, 'common sense' isn't a good measure of anything at all, and assertions shouldn't be accepted as true just because they seem like they make sense.

That's something quite different from what you seem to have inferred from that explanation.
 

Kopikatsu

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Jonluw said:
ThatLankyBastard said:
I'm a Loli, so I may be a bit biased but I find nothing wrong with underaged characters that are animated...
I... assume you're a lolicon, not a loli?
Maybe he does mean loli. There are male loli's. I would show you a picture, but putting 'male loli' into Google IS NOT SAFE. EVEN WITH SAFESEARCH ON. OHGODITBURNS

creationis apostate said:
Raskolnikov34 said:
Unfortunatly they are. Someone that says they are a pedophile regardless of whether or not the acted upon their urges, at least where I live, is shunned by EVERYONE and usually beaten by said vigilantes. This leads to reppression of these feelings which as good ol' Sigmund has told us, is not a great thing.
I agree with the first part, but Freud psychology is basically all false.

Here's an article about it:

http://articles.latimes.com/2004/feb/18/opinion/oe-dufresne18
eh, even with that repression has been proven. It is very serious.
Repression has been proven false, actually. Most 'repressed' memories are actually fabricated. (Source? Me, actually. I'm going towards a Masters in Psychology and it's painfully easy to make someone 'remember' something that never actually happened.)

If something extremely traumatizing occurs, you won't repress the memory. Quite the opposite actually, the event will be burned into your mind for the rest of your life.

Ah, hell, I'll throw another source in, free of charge: http://www.fmsfonline.org/
 

SL33TBL1ND

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This was actually being discussed on the ABCtech site. Me and the editor had a good conversation about it, and in the end we found that the problem with our classification board is that they don't examine the intent of the media. Is this game intended to get paedophiles off? No? Well that's that.
 

JoJo

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Alucard788 said:
JoJoDeathunter said:
Alucard788 said:
I not even going to debate it anymore...it's useless.

Suffice to say why the obsession with underage nudity? Why the constant need to define, and defend it in the face of it being within a lurid context?

I mean I have an obsession with Elves and Elven culture...is it anything like that? A fascination and need to know more?

I'm not accusing, I'm just genuinely curious. I'm no longer angry I'm just...curious.

I want an honest answer.
On this site often a contenious topic that people love to argue over will become popular for a week or more as people will keep on making new threads about it to continue their side. Zombies, My Little Pony, avatar threads... all for various reasons have been popular here for a while. I saw a couple of your posts on the last thread on this topic and honestly I think it might be best for you to stay away from these threads if you really feel you can't deal with some of the replies here.
I think I will...mostly because of some things I've suffered as a child myself...it really does change your perspectives on things like this.

Suffice to say there is no 'debate' for me.

I think your right and i'll leave these threads lone. Hang out in news and games, and just check in here for other topics.

Thank you.
No problem, sorry to hear that someone put you through that. While there may be disagreements on this thread on how best to reduce child abuse, we all agree on the most fundemental part; being against it. When you look past the minor differences we're all on the same side =D
 

zarguhl

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When it comes to the game DoA, they should just do as the OP said, change the description and make the characters 18. It's not like they look underage.
 

Raskolnikov34

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CrystalShadow said:
Raskolnikov34 said:
Baneat said:
Raskolnikov34 said:
Baneat said:
Raskolnikov34 said:
Eh, it doesn't exploit anyone per se, but it encourages pedophile behavior.
That's quite the statement to make, any factual evidence (Study showing correlation) to back the claim? I got curious about that, and never found evidence pointing to it. If anything it would curb an urge for some.
No, I don't have any factual evidence (I'll look for some in a second), but it seems logical.

If you let someone with anger management issues lose control constantly in harmless ways (punching inanimate objects), it doesn't curb their desire, it just gets them in the habit of giving into it. Eventually, these habits could manifest less harmlessly.

The same could be true for pedophiles, but, like I said, I don't have any studies showing correlations.
The inverse seems equally logical to me, actually, and there's a fancy name for when people get told things and go "Oh, that makes sense" - then they also get told something that's clearly "common sense logic" which contradicts the first, and that makes sense too. Which is why throwing assertions as facts is very risky indeed.
Did I do this?

My first assertion was that it could encourage pedophiles. My second assertion was an slightly more fleshed out form of this; in that I said it could get pedophiles into the habit of giving into their desires and therefore cause them to eventually act on their desires in more drastic ways, ie: actually abuse a child, or view actual pornography involving minors (I said "manifest less harmlessly", so maybe I was a bit unclear).

Those don't contradict each other in my opinion.
I don't think you're following through the logical chain of thought you're being presented with.

Your reply suggests you think it's about you contradicting your own statement, but the point being made about treating assertions as facts, which has to do with situations like the following.

Person A makes an assertion that seems logical, which person B reads and agrees with.
Person C makes another assertion which seems logical, but completely contradicts the assertion made by person A. Person B then reads this, and also agrees with it.

Yet, in having agreed with both person A, and person C, who hold mutually exclusive ideas, person B is now left with the knowledge that they cannot both be true, irrespective of how they seem logical, and a product of common sense.
If one is true, the other is not. - Therefore, 'common sense' isn't a good measure of anything at all, and assertions shouldn't be accepted as true just because they seem like they make sense.

That's something quite different from what you seem to have inferred from that explanation.
You never said there were three persons involved and were somewhat vague in your wording, which led to confusion.

Plus, I never said this was "common sense", I just said it was "logical". I also implied that it was speculative, as I fully acknowledged my lack of actual evidence. Also, I never made a statement on whether or not arguing by assertion was non-risky (it can be, as you showed).
 

Raskolnikov34

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creationis apostate said:
Raskolnikov34 said:
Unfortunatly they are. Someone that says they are a pedophile regardless of whether or not the acted upon their urges, at least where I live, is shunned by EVERYONE and usually beaten by said vigilantes. This leads to reppression of these feelings which as good ol' Sigmund has told us, is not a great thing.
I agree with the first part, but Freud psychology is basically all false.

Here's an article about it:


http://articles.latimes.com/2004/feb/18/opinion/oe-dufresne18
eh, even with that repression has been proven. It is very serious.
True, but I don't think the best way to cope with an immoral desire is to give into it, albeit in a harmless way; there are better ways to deal with repression.

Then again, I don't know nearly enough about Psychology to make any definite statements on the issue.
 

Eternal_Lament

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Its not my cup of tea, but it shouldn't be illegal. Again, they aren't real so it's not like an actual underage person is being harmed in any way. It only really seems to have the trouble it does because it is similar only in appearance to actual child porn, which is stupid logic if you think about it. It would be like arguing that video games that show someone dying in a detailed way is illegal because it is too similar in appearance to a snuff film, and I'm sure everyone here is willing to say that's stupid as well.

I find it strange that hentai (or any other animation for that matter) featuring someone under 18 is illegal here in Canada, considering everything else we tollerate.
 

Baresark

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It should not be illegal. It doesn't encourage pedophilia, it couldn't. If someone is not interested in 13 year old girls, seeing an animated version will not all of the suddenly peek their interest and make the pursue a young girl.

While I have no interest in such things myself, I can't blame someone for looking at that kind of thing, and there is no crime being committed. No one is being victimized or exploited or raped. If someone fantasizes about that, it doesn't hurt anyone, and it's only the people with a real problem that would act on such an impulse. Who knows, such things may even prevent people with those urges from acting on them. Like violent video games, they do not create violence in others, they actually sedate violence in violent people.
 

Jabberwock xeno

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I think that this argument is stupid, as is the fact that it is illegal here in the US.

They aren't real, they are fictional, so techincally speaking, they don't have an age.

They provide a means for people to "vent" on imaginery things instead of real people.

All postives, no negatives.
 

Baresark

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Kopikatsu said:
Jonluw said:
ThatLankyBastard said:
I'm a Loli, so I may be a bit biased but I find nothing wrong with underaged characters that are animated...
I... assume you're a lolicon, not a loli?
Maybe he does mean loli. There are male loli's. I would show you a picture, but putting 'male loli' into Google IS NOT SAFE. EVEN WITH SAFESEARCH ON. OHGODITBURNS

creationis apostate said:
Raskolnikov34 said:
Unfortunatly they are. Someone that says they are a pedophile regardless of whether or not the acted upon their urges, at least where I live, is shunned by EVERYONE and usually beaten by said vigilantes. This leads to reppression of these feelings which as good ol' Sigmund has told us, is not a great thing.
I agree with the first part, but Freud psychology is basically all false.

Here's an article about it:

http://articles.latimes.com/2004/feb/18/opinion/oe-dufresne18
eh, even with that repression has been proven. It is very serious.
Repression has been proven false, actually. Most 'repressed' memories are actually fabricated. (Source? Me, actually. I'm going towards a Masters in Psychology and it's painfully easy to make someone 'remember' something that never actually happened.)

If something extremely traumatizing occurs, you won't repress the memory. Quite the opposite actually, the event will be burned into your mind for the rest of your life.

Ah, hell, I'll throw another source in, free of charge: http://www.fmsfonline.org/
Not that it's necessary, but I couldn't agree more. I am speaking from a perspective not of psychology, but in the physiology of the brain. All "repressed" memories that have been "recalled" are fake. Police can interrogate a child and convince them they have been harmed when no such harm ever happened. The human brain, contrary to very popular belief, lies to us all the time. It lies about places, people, colors, actions, things you witnessed and order of events. To paraphrase Read Montague, "the human brain is a slow, inefficient, error filled mess". It couldn't repress something, it could however completely forget an event ever happened, but then that memory is gone, never to be returned. The only time recall is ever near 100% is when music is involved.
 

AT God

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It is an odd situation in that an animated child is different from the animated characters in Dead or Alive, until reading that article I was unaware any of the characters are under aged. I guess this could be seen as the same way the whole age problem except that there are no lives to be ruined, when it is actual humans it can affect the person, in video games it can just be perceived as creepy. My stance is if they look adult they are adults, only in games though, actual life is as always more complex and cruel.