...you win this roundJonluw said:
My fault for leaving the computer to get a drink in the middle of a sentence...
So, yes, I am a Lolicon, not a Loli...
Poll: underage animated female characters...
- Thread starter renegade7
- Start date
Recommended Videos
My fault for leaving the computer to get a drink in the middle of a sentence...
So, yes, I am a Lolicon, not a Loli...
I think the problem is this whole 'is underage nudity art or pornography' debate.
Yes, its a drawing, its artwork - but some people could argue having a naked seven year old girl posing lewdly as art. What is the difference between a drawing and a photo? Obviously, the photo needed a real live little girl to debase herself for someone elses gratification - the drawing is just drawn from mind, nobody was harmed in the making.
Some people would make the arguement that the second option is the better, because nobody was harmed in the making. Sure, fine, i'll agree with that - but unfortunately, there are a lot of people out there who would take the next step. The same people who would play or watch something violent then do something violent in responce - and yes, there are people out there that do it, dont start whinging just yet.
I'm not saying everybody would do it. I'm not saying that if i suddenly whipped out a picture (real or drawn) of a little girl naked you'd automatically become a pedophile, just the same as if i handed you a picture of a gun would make you want to shoot a whole bunch of people. But, unfortunately, there is a small percentage that would take this photo and...take the next step.
These people are sick. These people need help. And, unfortunately, a lot of people in power look at the whole thing in the mindset of 'omg its gross and disturbing, lets just put a blanket ban on everything to make sure this doesnt happen ever'. But then, zero-tolerance policies never work for long unless rigidly policed, so...
Anyways, i think i'm trying to say that people in power think they are doing something for the greater good, and they think that by keeping something off us all they will stop the select few amongst us from doing something we may - or may not - regret later down the track.
Yes, its a drawing, its artwork - but some people could argue having a naked seven year old girl posing lewdly as art. What is the difference between a drawing and a photo? Obviously, the photo needed a real live little girl to debase herself for someone elses gratification - the drawing is just drawn from mind, nobody was harmed in the making.
Some people would make the arguement that the second option is the better, because nobody was harmed in the making. Sure, fine, i'll agree with that - but unfortunately, there are a lot of people out there who would take the next step. The same people who would play or watch something violent then do something violent in responce - and yes, there are people out there that do it, dont start whinging just yet.
I'm not saying everybody would do it. I'm not saying that if i suddenly whipped out a picture (real or drawn) of a little girl naked you'd automatically become a pedophile, just the same as if i handed you a picture of a gun would make you want to shoot a whole bunch of people. But, unfortunately, there is a small percentage that would take this photo and...take the next step.
These people are sick. These people need help. And, unfortunately, a lot of people in power look at the whole thing in the mindset of 'omg its gross and disturbing, lets just put a blanket ban on everything to make sure this doesnt happen ever'. But then, zero-tolerance policies never work for long unless rigidly policed, so...
Anyways, i think i'm trying to say that people in power think they are doing something for the greater good, and they think that by keeping something off us all they will stop the select few amongst us from doing something we may - or may not - regret later down the track.
Having that sort of visuals in a game is dumb as hell, if I wanted to look at that sort of thing it's just a google click away. It's hard to miss that sort of thing in dragon age 2...first scene with your Bethany and it's a side boob camera shot... I don't wanna see that....I play games for fun not for explicit visual pleasure....
This is a stupid issue. Even if the Dead or Alive girls are TECHNICALLY "underage", they're about as likely to appeal to people of a pedophilic bent as Elle McPherson- they've got boobies like barrage balloons. "Lolicon" isn't about age, it's about appearance, so unless the game is blatantly sexual (as in actually PORNOGRAPHIC) there's nothing offensive about it. It's not like you can hold Kasumi down and violently rape her and it's hardly "oversexualisation of minors" as it's almost impossible to describe characters like Hitomi and Leifang as "minors" with a straight face. This whole thing is completely retarded.
With what girls are wearing these day's i thought DOA would have been showing them how to wear more clothes lol.
But seriously tho drawn, digital or real if the girl is young then it's just gross. And if you think otherwise then you probably fall into these categories:
1. Your at the same age, so thats ok.
2. You have never had a physical relationship.
3. You have a really tiny .... and your scared to go for girls your own age.
4. Your an overweight social reject.
I could probably come up with more but i cant be f'ed.
Of course 3 is where i lay most of the blame. And is possibly why people also date tiny asain chicks.
But seriously tho drawn, digital or real if the girl is young then it's just gross. And if you think otherwise then you probably fall into these categories:
1. Your at the same age, so thats ok.
2. You have never had a physical relationship.
3. You have a really tiny .... and your scared to go for girls your own age.
4. Your an overweight social reject.
I could probably come up with more but i cant be f'ed.
Of course 3 is where i lay most of the blame. And is possibly why people also date tiny asain chicks.
Marik2 said:LOL like this anime girl here XDJack Ebersole said:
I couldn't help but add that one. To be honest, she was the only reason I started watching Gurren Lagann. What can I say? I was young and she was hot.
LOL well we all do something we're not proud ofTheMagicIndian said:Marik2 said:LOL like this anime girl here XDJack Ebersole said:
I couldn't help but add that one. To be honest, she was the only reason I started watching Gurren Lagann. What can I say? I was young and she was hot.
And also I heard shes only 14 because underground peoples calendars are out of sync with the "real" calendar system, so shes older than her age says.
And I prefer the "real" Yoko
No.
Let's look at this way. I hate child abuse and exploitation. I also hate it when people get murdered, but I don't think fictional portrayals of murder should be banned in media. It's the same with this case and any others.
And regarding the theory that "fictional child pornography fosters more pedophiles." Does fictional portrayals of violence and murder foster more murderers? I'm sure many people here, being fans of games and media that have tons of violence in them, would say it doesn't, and I would agree. There really isn't much proof that it does, and there's even less proof that making such content illegal would reduce or prevent violent crime.
The goal here shouldn't be to necessarily eliminate or stop people who enjoy virtual child pornography or people who are pedophiles. The goal should be to stop people from acting out on those desires in a way that harms others. I have plenty of desires that are morally and legally questionable.
For example, I would love to go and rob a store and get things for free. The act of stealing would be a huge rush, and if I succeed, I would get things without having to pay for them. But I don't do that, because I feel doing so, while exciting, would hurt others and get me in deep trouble. So I don't do it. Instead, I go after the highs and excitement through other means that don't get me in trouble and hurt others, and can even be healthy for me, such as running and exercise, playing sports, ect.
In short, I might get a lot of shit for saying this, but pedophiles are humans too and have a conscious. The ones that don't are the ones worth worrying about.
Let's look at this way. I hate child abuse and exploitation. I also hate it when people get murdered, but I don't think fictional portrayals of murder should be banned in media. It's the same with this case and any others.
And regarding the theory that "fictional child pornography fosters more pedophiles." Does fictional portrayals of violence and murder foster more murderers? I'm sure many people here, being fans of games and media that have tons of violence in them, would say it doesn't, and I would agree. There really isn't much proof that it does, and there's even less proof that making such content illegal would reduce or prevent violent crime.
The goal here shouldn't be to necessarily eliminate or stop people who enjoy virtual child pornography or people who are pedophiles. The goal should be to stop people from acting out on those desires in a way that harms others. I have plenty of desires that are morally and legally questionable.
For example, I would love to go and rob a store and get things for free. The act of stealing would be a huge rush, and if I succeed, I would get things without having to pay for them. But I don't do that, because I feel doing so, while exciting, would hurt others and get me in deep trouble. So I don't do it. Instead, I go after the highs and excitement through other means that don't get me in trouble and hurt others, and can even be healthy for me, such as running and exercise, playing sports, ect.
In short, I might get a lot of shit for saying this, but pedophiles are humans too and have a conscious. The ones that don't are the ones worth worrying about.
In Greece even married men would have boys as young as 13 as their lovers, back then it wasn't frowned upon, we have only evolved to believe its wrong because the law states you cant give consent unless you are 18.
My opinion on this is obviously, if you look at underage characters and desire them you are desiring a young innocent child regardless of what they are doing in Manga or in Dead or Alive. If you can distinguish the difference between fantasy and reality then you are fine, if you never put your sick thoughts into practice I think there is no problem with it, but you should probably see someone anyway.
Arent most people on these forums under 17 anyway? If you desire someone who is your own age in a game its alright i think..hardy har.
My opinion on this is obviously, if you look at underage characters and desire them you are desiring a young innocent child regardless of what they are doing in Manga or in Dead or Alive. If you can distinguish the difference between fantasy and reality then you are fine, if you never put your sick thoughts into practice I think there is no problem with it, but you should probably see someone anyway.
Arent most people on these forums under 17 anyway? If you desire someone who is your own age in a game its alright i think..hardy har.
Some people are gonna perve on underage girls, no matter what you do to try and stop it. I'd sooner they do it to animated ones then have real people exploited.
Man, I resent that. I like women with A-C cup breasts...cursedseishi said:
In fact, a women with American DD cups is actually a turn off for me. Simple reasoning behind that: they're fat, were fat (And could become so again.), or the breasts are fake. And yes, you just heard an American male admit to not liking fake titties.
You mean like 15-17?Jack Ebersole said:
Well getting beyond gender prejudices, the all time greatest Anime films - Akira - the two protagonists were both only 15 years old boys. And that was an essential plot element, they were teenage delinquents still in school. Not just young adult criminals.
Although the movie was not "sexualised" it still had sexual elements that were key to progressing the story and developing the characters. It was not titillating, it was dramatic.
And America does THE SAME THING! The number of slasher films set in high school, or even Buffy the Vampire slayer, Heroes, Smallville.
I'd find it utterly hypocritical if Australia (or any country) allows such live action features yet animated and video games versions were persecuted.
Do they not realise how insulting that is to women with naturally small breasts?bahumat42 said:
"Only b-cup, luv? That's like a little girl breasts, you need to get implants unless the only guys you expect to attract are sick paedo scaaaum!"
You really have to hand it to them, this law was clearly signed through by paranoid males who know next to nothing about women and have been watching too many porn movies where all the women have double-D silicone domes for breasts. Or by women who want all porn banned and are happy to ban just a part of it under the "think about the children" fallacy.
Somewhere along the way the seem to have lost sight of what their job actually is:
TO PROTECT CHILDREN
Not enforce a narrow ideal of expectations for adult sexual interaction.
Though my favourite quote on page of comments:
"does this apply to men with small dicks as well??"
The law is sexist. I mean it bans small breasts but not small wangs, this is the kind of law Duke Nukem would write... as a joke.
True but you have to appreciate how powerful the "think about the children" fallacy is. Fallacies may be fundamentally false, but that doesn't mean they aren't powerful logical weapons, they just happen to have a fatal weakness.TheLaofKazi said:
See we can conclude that violent media doesn't contribute to violence because we are able to talk about it AND we feel strongly enough about it to defend it.
But people CANNOT talk about sex, and they especially not when it involves kids. Emotions get too high, people jump to conclusion, people worry even about how every little thing they say and fallacies are far easier to introduce. It's all Freudian, we are not rational beings, the world is too complex to be rational, we are ruled by our emotions. This is how when some Prude says:
"We should ban this because something-something-something pedos win"
You can't really stand up to it, you cannot actually counter it directly. As merely opposing it utterly undermines your own position as you become the "pro-pedo" side even though that is your last intention.
I think the problem is Australia is the government is WEAK. SO weak, it has no fortitude to stand up to any special interests, any loud-mouth troll can get any stupid law passed by campaigning and making enough of a fuss. Australian politics don't seem to have learned how to deal with extremist voices as they see to want to hit them head on which is futile.
The only way to fight such dirty legislation is with a taste of their own medicine.
English politics is VERY good at this, when a bill like this comes along it is strategically bombed with a laser guided tactical nuke of an "under-argument" that blows away not it's point, but it's foundation.
Use another fallacy against it: sexism.
This law is sexist, because it treats young looking women AS IF they were children.
If Australian politicians who don't want to find themselves forced to sign through such laws need to read Sun Tzu's Art of War. It is so relevant, ideas are like armies, they must be fought like a conflict with ideas of your own. You need allies, you need strategy, you need deceptions.
It's a lot like the movie Inception and their "power of Ideas", except without the dream-allegory bullshit, you can do this FOR REAL on people. Why do you think hundreds of BILLIONS of dollars are spent on advertising, Public Relations, lobbying. Lawyers do this, they plant an idea in your head without you even realising it, and best part about this you REALLY can be led to believe that this is your own idea.
Australia seems to think just having an "open" debate is enough. That's like having a forum without moderators, if you allow that the trolls will take over.
Rant: over
For further reference, check out Adam Curtis' documentary The Century of the Self.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UcYBSXgtmKQ
PS: for all those wondering about all the crazy things that Palin is saying, stop to consider that she is being directed not to make a rational case, but one based on Freudian principals that we are ultimately ruled by our emotions; our fears; our desires. And that the idea that when the swing voters go to the polls they vote based on their feelings, not their logic.
It worked for Clinton in 1996.
i think it does for the sheer creep factor.
i've seen a lot of lisa simpson porn in my life (i frequent 4chan, yes), but that doesn't make it any less gross.
i've seen a lot of lisa simpson porn in my life (i frequent 4chan, yes), but that doesn't make it any less gross.
Between 7 and 8.
14
15
16
Paedophilia has gone the same way as Drugs and Terrorism. In our "valiant attempts" to wage War on them, they've just scared the public even more.
You laid out the situation quite accurately, it's the sad reality of human nature and politics. It's the same with American politics, the corporate and special interests influence on our government is fucking absurd.Treblaine said:
I think I've lost faith in politics and the government to get things done and improve our situation, which is why my viewpoints have become less politically involved over the last year or so. I used to have more concrete views on what exactly should be done in a political context, what kind of law should be made, how it should be made, who should be elected so it would be made, how to deal with the inevitable crap that comes with it, all of that kind of stuff. But I don't feel like playing that game anymore. I feel that playing the game only contributes to the mess.
The problem with using bullshit to destroy bullshit, is after everything is said and done, look at what's left: Bullshit. The progress made from such tactics would be temporary and would create more problems down the line. Change and progress shouldn't come out of political games, lying and deceit. It needs to come out of honesty. Such an approach wouldn't work in politics, but that's why I have lost faith in them.
That documentary looks very interesting too, I'll have to add it to the 'the list' =D.