Poll: Unpopular opinion: Arkham Origins was better than Arkham Knight (major spoilers!!)

[Ihateregistering1]

So I've just finished everything on 'Arkham Knight' (except for collecting every Riddler trophy, so I just watched the final Riddler battle and the 'true' ending on Youtube), and something hit me: I think Arkham Origins was a better game than this.

I know it's cool to hate on Arkham Origins, and yes, it is definitely sort of the odd man out of the Batman games, since it doesn't really fit into the story of the series and wasn't made by Rocksteady, but hear me out.

Boss battles/Rogue gallery: A (deserved) criticism of Asylum was that the boss battles were extremely weak. Rocksteady listened to the fans and delivered really good boss battles in City (my favorite was the Mr. Freeze battle). Origins also had boss fights which, while not quite as good as City's, were still pretty darn good. For whatever reason, Knight just seemed like it didn't even want to try this time around. Also, Origins had the best depiction of Bane I've ever seen.
Special mention must go to the Deathstroke "battle" in Knight. That goes down in my gaming history as the lamest, most anti-climactic boss fight ever. I really can't think of anyway they could have done a shittier job of handling a very cool character like Deathstroke, but my hat is off to you Rocksteady.

Story: Ok, I was a little bummed to find out that the villain in Origins was (AGAIN!?) the Joker; I was really hoping for some variety. But besides that it worked well introducing the Joker, and making a simple set-up that worked (8 assassins chasing Batman). Knight featured the titular Arkham Knight (whose identity I guessed in about 3 hours), a somewhat nonsensical scheme by Scarecrow to poison the city...after he tells them to evacuate it, and big plot holes that don't make a ton of sense (where the hell did Jayson get the billions of dollars it would take to buy thousands of drones and hire enough mercenaries to take over a major city?).

The Batmobile: It pretty much sucked, that's about it. Traveling around the city by gliding and grapnel gun is way funner, so really it only served to add tanks battles that felt really out of place, and to have you drive races that the Riddler sets up (the Riddler wanting you to drive a race car? Really?).

Combat: I honestly liked Origins combat better. Knight has just added too much to the fights (guys who have electrified armor and medics were sort of the last straw for me).

Setting: Both were great, but I really like Origins more brutal feel to the whole thing, which made sense considering Batman is supposed to be younger and more hot-headed. Something about Origins just felt grittier and more rough, which was perfect.

Anyway, I'm just ranting because I just did the Deathstroke battle in Knight and it sucked so stinking badly. What are everyone else's thoughts?

 

[Sniper Team 4]

Better than Arkham Knight? Hm...not in my opinion. There was a point in Origins where I just wanted to be done. I stopped caring about side quests, I didn't track down the Riddler (something I did in all other games, Knight included), and I stopped exploring. I just made a straight line to the end of the game because I just wanted to be done. I think it was after the Joker kicked one of the assassins out of the window. The game became a chore at that point for me. Up until that point, I was enjoying it. Not as much as the other two, but it was okay. Not sure what happened.

BUT! I can understand why some people would think Origins is better, because yeah, Origins did do some things so much better. It was like its pieces were better than Knight, but for some reason Knight still managed to come out on top. Origins had a better story idea, Origins had the second-best boss battle (Deathstroke) out of the entire series, and the new voice for Joker was actually pretty good. "Can't you JUST. PLAY. ALONG?" as he beats the snot out of Black Mask. Meanwhile, Knight had some stupid plot that was nothing like it was advertised as (I thought all the villains were supposed to work together, but instead they all run off and do their own thing, and Harley may as well have not even been in the freaking game), there were NO boss battles (no, doing and extended predator takedown map is NOT a boss battle, nor are the tank fights), and what they did with Deathstroke was just...Deathstroke is shaking in his boots, I'm sure.
But despite all of these flaws (and that damn Batmobile and the complete reliance on it for everything), Knight still managed to hold my attention better. I think it's because of how Joker was handled, and that ending section with him redeemed a lot of the game for me.

Also, and I may be crazy, but I think Origins' combat is slightly off. There seemed to be a tiny delay between pressing a button and the action being taken. At first I thought I imagined it and I was just out of practice, but it haunted me for the entire game, and other people I've spoken with said that it felt slower to them too. Seeing as combat, perfect combat, is a huge part of the game, that was a sour note for me.

 

[Johnny Novgorod]

I think Origins would be a great game were it not so buggy - borderline unplayable - and had it not come AFTER City.

 

[Silvanus]

Also, Origins had the best depiction of Bane I've ever seen.

D'you mean just in games/films? It'd be hard to argue that was a better depiction than in Knightfall.

Knight featured the titular Arkham Knight (whose identity I guessed in about 3 hours), a somewhat nonsensical scheme by Scarecrow to poison the city...after he tells them to evacuate it [...]

Seems nonsensical, but they do address that in-game: Scarecrow has enough gas to cover the entire Eastern seaboard, and he knows that the evacuees don't have enough time to escape the blast radius.

What are everyone else's thoughts?

I'll certainly agree with you that Origins received undeserved hate. I may not like it as much as the Rocksteady ones, but it's still generally solid, and I agree with you that it featured some really good boss fights.

 

[MeatMachine]

Arkham City was the only one of the four that was any fun, however brief it lasted.

 

[wizzy555]

I think origins got more criticism than it deserved and I think Arkham knight is a little too "overloaded" lets say. But I'm not sure I would go as far to say origins is better, maybe on similar level. Personally I prefer asylum for the "tightness" as Yahtzee says.

One question I do have regarding the plot

Spoiler

Why does scarecrow have the cloudburst when the original plan was to cover the seaboard. Was it just a massively expensive redundancy plan?

 

[Ihateregistering1]

I think Origins would be a great game were it not so buggy - borderline unplayable - and had it not come AFTER City.

Oh yeah, don't get me wrong, City was, to me, easily the best of the bunch, and is one of my favorite games of all time.

The stability issues with Origins were strange. I rented the game for 360 and it was literally unplayable. Then I bought it on a Steam sale for PC, and I never had an issue (I think I 'fell through the world' once).

 

[Shoggoth2588]

Special mention must go to the Deathstroke "battle" in Knight. That goes down in my gaming history as the lamest, most anti-climactic boss fight ever. I really can't think of anyway they could have done a shittier job of handling a very cool character like Deathstroke, but my hat is off to you Rocksteady.

So you mean to tell me (a person who hasn't played AK yet) that Deathstroke in Knight is an easier, more insulting fight, than Electrocutioner was in Origins? You attack-button him once and the next time you see him he's pushed through a window in a cutscene! Aside from him I do agree about boss fights in Origins being alright compared to Asylum but not quite on City's level.

Again, I haven't played Knight but I feel really conflicted on Origins. I also love how Bane is depicted until they introduce Proto-Titan and take his mask off. I like the 8 Assassin's concept until you realize that one of them was beaten in the prologue, another is there for padding and most of the rest are side-quests. I didn't like that Joker was in Origins but it does make sense when I look at the title again and read the word "Origins"; I also like how The Joker is given a sort of backstory...kinda.

What really irked me about Origins was the bugs and glitches. Nothing was really game breaking (except for the one time the game crashed behind a Bat-Wing loading screen), but I feel like combat in Origins wasn't nearly as fine-tuned as in the other two Arkham games I'd played. How often I mashed 'counter' only to be hit anyway is a number I can only guess at. The number of times Batman cloaked somebody then forgot about them (thus breaking the combo meter and loosing a chance for a beatdown) is another number I can't begin to count. It's been so long since I've played Asylum or City that I can't tell if I just don't like Arkham combat or if Origins really is that bad in that aspect...I honestly had more fun finding all of the Enigma packs (and getting the first Riddler trophy).

 

[Saltyk]

Special mention must go to the Deathstroke "battle" in Knight. That goes down in my gaming history as the lamest, most anti-climactic boss fight ever. I really can't think of anyway they could have done a shittier job of handling a very cool character like Deathstroke, but my hat is off to you Rocksteady.

So you mean to tell me (a person who hasn't played AK yet) that Deathstroke in Knight is an easier, more insulting fight, than Electrocutioner was in Origins? You attack-button him once and the next time you see him he's pushed through a window in a cutscene! Aside from him I do agree about boss fights in Origins being alright compared to Asylum but not quite on City's level.

Again, I haven't played Knight but I feel really conflicted on Origins. I also love how Bane is depicted until they introduce Proto-Titan and take his mask off. I like the 8 Assassin's concept until you realize that one of them was beaten in the prologue, another is there for padding and most of the rest are side-quests. I didn't like that Joker was in Origins but it does make sense when I look at the title again and read the word "Origins"; I also like how The Joker is given a sort of backstory...kinda.

What really irked me about Origins was the bugs and glitches. Nothing was really game breaking (except for the one time the game crashed behind a Bat-Wing loading screen), but I feel like combat in Origins wasn't nearly as fine-tuned as in the other two Arkham games I'd played. How often I mashed 'counter' only to be hit anyway is a number I can only guess at. The number of times Batman cloaked somebody then forgot about them (thus breaking the combo meter and loosing a chance for a beatdown) is another number I can't begin to count. It's been so long since I've played Asylum or City that I can't tell if I just don't like Arkham combat or if Origins really is that bad in that aspect...I honestly had more fun finding all of the Enigma packs (and getting the first Riddler trophy).

Deathstroke was easily the most anticlimactic boss (that is an actual fight, not a single cutscene or shot to the head) in any game I have ever played. A battle between Batman and Deathstroke should be a huge battle. No goons or distractions, just a battle between two titans. It should have been epic! At least as good as the Origins battle.

What did we get?

Deathstroke in a tank. And several really big tanks to deal with, first.
Kefka and Sephiroth better look out. We sure have a contender for epic bosses.

I don't know who thought that up and thought it would be a great final battle with the Terminator.

Honestly, that is one of my biggest complaints with Knight. The boss fights suck. I mean a lot. I was actually surprised that Angry Joe didn't really seem to bring this up. But many of the Storyline Boss Battles are just you in the Batmobile shooting at drones of some variety.

Even many of the Sidequests have boring or nonexistent Boss Battles. One of the better ones was against Professor Pyg. A villain I never even heard of. Two face is a Predator Boss Fight (and I took him down without even meaning to). Penguin doesn't really have one. Riddler's is more annoying than anything else. Firefly was more of a race (in the Batmobile) than a fight. Man-bat was more a question of if you can find him. Were there even other Boss Fights in the game?

Oh, and Scarecrow... Yeah, I don't even think that counts as a Boss Battle. Which is a shame considering how epic the Scarecrow moments were in Asylum.

At the end of the day, though, I would give Knight a solid 7/10.

It has some great moments that really feel like 10/10 moments. There are some great psychological moments. And some infamous Batman moments are well realized, like Joker shooting Barbara. The world is full of minor touches that seem to build the world, like a message from Lex Luthor on Bruce's work answering machine. In terms of combat it was solid, even if I felt like too many moments just amounted to them throwing lots of annoying goons at you at once (one fight seemed to have two of each enemy type in it). The predator parts are still my favorite sections and it even added enemies actively trying to counter your strategy, like mining vantage points and disabling grates, as well as having medics who can revive KOed goons. I even like the Batmobile to an extent.

On the other hand, as previously mentioned, Boss Fights suck. The Batmobile is overused to the point that I was getting tired of it. They probably could have cut it down by about 10-20% to feel balanced. Cutting out all the Riddler Races would have helped. And the identity of the Arkham Knight you can figure out almost immediately. Unlike the OP, I guessed it within 10 minutes of when he was introduced. But even if you can't figure it out that fast, the game practically tells you it at one point.

In the end, I still liked the game. I would even recommend it to fans of Batman or the Arkham games. But I can't really call it a great game. It has some great moments, but fails in some ways that makes parts more tedious and annoying than anything else. And Batman shouldn't be summed up as tedious and annoying.

That's my two cents anyway.

 

[SonOfVoorhees]

I would agree as it didnt have the Batmobile tank rubbish.

 

[stroopwafel]

I have always considered Arkham Origins a good game but better than Knight? Just...no. The problem with Origins was mainly that the map was too large and spread too thin, giving it a pacing problem that dragged the entire game down. Condensed to solely the story missions; Origins closely approaches the preceding games in terms of fun. But unfortunately the combat was fairly glitchy if you played it pre-patch(not to mention occasional game crashes). Origins was not as polished, not as well paced as the Rocksteady games but these were minor issues to what they got right. Story was great, gameplay was still satisfying as ever and a Gotham covered in a blanket of snow on Christmas Eve gave it a kind of unique 'Batman Returns' atmosphere. For me it was kind of like, watching a Tim Burton Batman movie after some of the best Batman the animated series episodes.

Arkham Knight however is in a league of its own. Everything from the previous games is improved and refined with production values that rank among the highest I've ever seen in a game. The batmobile gets a lot of slack, but I personally really enjoyed it. It really added some variety to the gameplay which had pretty much stayed the same across all 3 games before it. I think people see it as a car, which it isn't really. Once you get the grips of how it controls the thing just becomes so freakin awesome. Also with destructible environments and such you can see the city(atleast on street level) is designed around it, and this combined with all the other added effects to the batmobile adds another layer of polish that is just unreal.

I personally think Arkham Knight comes as close to perfection a game can get. The only minor gripe I can think of is that some of the tank battles can drag on just a wee bit too long.

 

[kasperbbs]

Origins broke twice when i attempted to play it and arkham knight got removed from steam before i even touched it. Well Origins seems somewhat better i suppose..

 

[Ihateregistering1]

Deathstroke was easily the most anticlimactic boss (that is an actual fight, not a single cutscene or shot to the head) in any game I have ever played. A battle between Batman and Deathstroke should be a huge battle. No goons or distractions, just a battle between two titans. It should have been epic! At least as good as the Origins battle.

What did we get?

Deathstroke in a tank. And several really big tanks to deal with, first.
Kefka and Sephiroth better look out. We sure have a contender for epic bosses.

I don't know who thought that up and thought it would be a great final battle with the Terminator.

Ugh, I know, I couldn't believe the Deathstroke part of Knight. I kept thinking "there must be more to this". That maybe when you arrived at GCPD, Deathstroke was going to have broken his restraints and a fight would ensue, or maybe that he'd break out of GCPD lock-up and come after you, or SOMETHING.

It was doubly disappointing because I, like many, was somewhat disappointed that Slade was the first boss of Origins, and thought he should have been the last (or at least a later) boss. When he appeared in Knight, my initial thought was "Yes! Rocksteady listened to the fans and decided to make Deathstroke the true final boss! Outstanding." And then it ends up being lamer than I could have imagined.

 

[Danbo Jambo]

I've not played Knight yet, but I absolutely loved Origins, and for me it's my favourite of the series so far. Loved Asylum too, but thought City was very "meh". Origins story really sat well with me, and one particular cut-scene mid-game was simply awesome.

 

[The Purple Grape]

Arkham Origins is a bad game per se. What it is is bland and uninspired, like or hate the Batmobile, they tried something new for the franchise. I give them more credit for trying something rather just re-skinning the gameplay from City, or knocking a game down to the lowest common denominator, usually with cover based gameplay and QTE's.

I don't hate Origins, I still play it, it just doesn't seem to have the love or passion the Rocksteady ones do. More corporate shell with the the franchise name to sell it.

 

[endtherapture]

Yes - Origins had better boss battles, better (more focused) story, better side quests, better gameplay, and less technical problems. It's slightly less "clever" than Knight, but overall I think it's the best Arkham game and tells an amazing story.

 

[Kingjackl]

I didn't play Origins, but I was really disappointed with how Deathstroke was handled in Knight, since I heard his boss fight in Origins was the highlight of that game.

I like the idea of video game bosses that are about fighting an opponent of equal combat ability in a one-on-one fight (see also: the final boss of Bloodborne, most Platinum game rival characters), so I booted up the fight on Youtube to see how the Deathstroke fight went. Two minutes in and I closed the video because it looked like boring quick-time-event laden garbage.

I love the Arkham games combat system, and I love one-on-one boss battles, but the Deathstroke fight proved to me those two simply don't mix very well. As it stands I think City has the best boss fights overall; Asylum's boss encounters were all terrible, and Knight's boss battles were mostly fighting waves of henchmen until the boss became vulnerable to a takedown, or boring Batmobile tank fights. With two exceptions; the last Arkham Knight encounter, which was a decent predator boss fight, and the highly memorable Johnny Charisma bit.

 

[endtherapture]

I didn't play Origins, but I was really disappointed with how Deathstroke was handled in Knight, since I heard his boss fight in Origins was the highlight of that game.

I like the idea of video game bosses that are about fighting an opponent of equal combat ability in a one-on-one fight (see also: the final boss of Bloodborne, most Platinum game rival characters), so I booted up the fight on Youtube to see how the Deathstroke fight went. Two minutes in and I closed the video because it looked like boring quick-time-event laden garbage.

I love the Arkham games combat system, and I love one-on-one boss battles, but the Deathstroke fight proved to me those two simply don't mix very well. As it stands I think City has the best boss fights overall; Asylum's boss encounters were all terrible, and Knight's boss battles were mostly fighting waves of henchmen until the boss became vulnerable to a takedown, or boring Batmobile tank fights. With two exceptions; the last Arkham Knight encounter, which was a decent predator boss fight, and the highly memorable Johnny Charisma bit.

The Deathstroke boss fight is actually fairly interactive and plays a bit like a combat puzzle as opposed to a QTE. Even so, there's a lot of other great boss fights in the game - Bane, stealth Bane, Firefly and Deathstroke are all highlights.

 

[Kingjackl]

I didn't play Origins, but I was really disappointed with how Deathstroke was handled in Knight, since I heard his boss fight in Origins was the highlight of that game.

I like the idea of video game bosses that are about fighting an opponent of equal combat ability in a one-on-one fight (see also: the final boss of Bloodborne, most Platinum game rival characters), so I booted up the fight on Youtube to see how the Deathstroke fight went. Two minutes in and I closed the video because it looked like boring quick-time-event laden garbage.

I love the Arkham games combat system, and I love one-on-one boss battles, but the Deathstroke fight proved to me those two simply don't mix very well. As it stands I think City has the best boss fights overall; Asylum's boss encounters were all terrible, and Knight's boss battles were mostly fighting waves of henchmen until the boss became vulnerable to a takedown, or boring Batmobile tank fights. With two exceptions; the last Arkham Knight encounter, which was a decent predator boss fight, and the highly memorable Johnny Charisma bit.

The Deathstroke boss fight is actually fairly interactive and plays a bit like a combat puzzle as opposed to a QTE. Even so, there's a lot of other great boss fights in the game - Bane, stealth Bane, Firefly and Deathstroke are all highlights.

Maybe it's better interactive. The video made it look like he was just mashing attack and occasionally countering while Deathstroke just powered through everything he did. Actually that was my biggest issue; the lack of reaction to the attacks. Hell, his health bar didn't seem to go down at all except during the scripted sequences.