Poll: Video Games and Sexual Preference

[oplinger]

DA:O did a better job making the whole relationship issue just a tad deeper, but they took 5 years to do that game, and that's as good as they got.

Maybe my definition of deep is different...but the first time I played DA:O, Leliana, right after I got her, was like "I love you, I feel like I can share everything with you" Now...I may be charismatic...but damn. Alistair was similar, it didn't take much for him to want to poit my poor warden (was a girl)

I don't think I'd call that particularly deep...but since I'm the only person this has happened to apparently...I'll go with it >_>

 

[The Wonder of the net]

i think it would be just awesome if your sexuality race gender and moment to moment reaction would effect gameplay so its not just one or the other its a catalyst that creates your game as you play like white male gay and fast reaction time and flounering around with choices being good in one moment than going to general hitler and damn a town to sorrow makes guys randomly attack. straight female asian and super button tapper makes all quest more like quicktime events where you accept and reject reality. hell lets go with this dog male bi and jumps and barks like a tiny ankle bitter makes you a annoying 9 year old. Zing!

 

[Meggiepants]

Well, I think that there are a lot of guys and girls here that have never been hit on by a person of the same gender. So if you select "straight", those people will just plain not hit on you, and you wouldn't notice at all.

I don't really know how gay people usually approach each other, but it makes sense to me that they have either judged the other's sexual preference by the way they behave themselves, or that they start by asking "Are you gay?" or something to that effect. I don't see a reason why this couldn't be incorporated into the game.

Well in my experiences of being hit on by guys, I can tell you one thing. ...They didn't feel me out for shit. >.> It happens just like everyone else, you get attracted, you become friends, one thing leads to another, you take the leap aaaaaaand rejected. game over. Try the next one...

From what I've gathered from..you know, talking to gay people, they don't walk down the street, or meet new people at wal-mart and have their gaydar beep uncontrollably. You usually have to find out through trial and error..or outright asking.

As someone who's somehow seemed gay...I really can say feeling people out doesn't work. And feeling them out may involve hitting on them anyway. ...either way the option seems to lose all meaning when you bring reality into it >_>

Unless you have a small monkey shaped memory core that holds all your thoughts and memories and gleefully dances whenever you're nearby and it tells everyone you're gay off camera. That could work I guess...

It has less to do with how this compares to real world interactions, and more to do with how I would say, DM a game. If I knew there were people in the game I was running who were made particularly uncomfortable by homo or bisexuality, then I wouldn't include it as an element of the game. Although this isn't true to the real world, it speaks more to making sure the game is an enjoyable experience for my players.

Bioware in this case would be the DM. They are in essence, trying to create an experience that is enjoyable for as many people as possible.

Yes, you can just say no to these characters. But you still have to say no. Some people don't want to have to say no when they are playing a game. It makes the game less enjoyable for them. I'm merely acknowledging those people and putting out an idea that I thought might solve the issue less controversially than having a "No homesexual" mode in the game.

 

[Irridium]

Well, the idea would not so much be that people would be like, "Guy, you are so gay!" More along the lines of how they say, "You're a beautiful woman" Or "You're such a handsome man" based on what sex you choose. I'm not suggesting people would bring up your preference in casual conversation necessarily, though in DA:O, they kind of do if you are a guy and sleep around with Zevran. I don't know if they do if you play a gal and sleep around with Leliana. I should try that sometime.

If your romancing Alistair, he comments on it. In pretty amusing ways.

But really, they way I see it, if you are playing a game like DA2 - you spend years with these guys. Surely, they would have picked up on the fact that you were hetero/homo/bi based on your day to day choices by then. I mean, if you are hitting on anything that moves, hey, you're fair game to all comers.

Good point. Although in the first game its pretty hard to tell the passage of time. It says the game lasts the period of a year, but it sure doesn't feel like it.

It's just silly to have an options for it. Especially when you throw in the last bit (in bold) that's kinda like saying "it could work! but here's an easier way that's already in the game and doesn't really need us to program an option and a new set of audio files, and crazily -it doesn't make things creepy-"

I personally find it kind of creepy when a girl or a guy starts wanting to have sex with me after 3 conversations. But thats more of an issue with Bioware's romances than actual sexual preference.

So you're saying being gay makes you inherently different? Do gay women walk like they have a penis? Do gay guys saunter around and talk with lisps? Bernie from GTA4 anyone?

...
What?! Where in the hell did you get any of that from what I said? I said that body language says a lot about you, much more than words. And its true. You may not notice it, when whenever your talking with someone, your body language says more about you than your words do. This relates to how you move, your facial expressions, the tone of your voice, lots of things.

In fact, a game is coming out thats kind of based on this. Its called LA Noire, where you have to read people to figure things out.

 

[Vippy]

See, I haven't seen any romance options in games.
Seen alot of Sex options, but I haven't seen any actual romance. These are NOT believable relationships. Like in Mass Effect one, when I made it so that Shepherd was a dick, but got things done, yet suddenly around Liara he's bloody Shakespeare when he was in a particularly horny mindset.
I am totally for romance in games, and I think that yes, we should explore same sex relaionships more. I read somewhere that originally in the first Mass Effect Male Shepherd could sleep with Kaidan and Female Shepherd could sleep with Ashley... I even think the actors recorded it, which was probably slightly awkward, but they cut it at the last moment. Possibly because, let's be honest here, the gaming community as a whole tends to not be too mature about this kind of thing.
But We need actual romance. Not this crowbarred in... thing we have at the moment.

Oh, and for reality references, I'm a bisexual male.
Never played Dragon Age, but completed Mass Effect one and two so often I almost know them off by heart.

 

[Meggiepants]

DA:O did a better job making the whole relationship issue just a tad deeper, but they took 5 years to do that game, and that's as good as they got.

Maybe my definition of deep is different...but the first time I played DA:O, Leliana, right after I got her, was like "I love you, I feel like I can share everything with you" Now...I may be charismatic...but damn. Alistair was similar, it didn't take much for him to want to poit my poor warden (was a girl)

I don't think I'd call that particularly deep...but since I'm the only person this has happened to apparently...I'll go with it >_>

That wasn't my experience. In fact, Alistair rebuffed my first attempt to tent him, said he wasn't ready yet. Embarrassingly, I've got Alistair down to an art - make fun if you will, but to me, he's adorable. It takes about seven convos to get him to approach me in a romantic manner. Compared to something like DA2 - where Anders claims he'll break my heart after one convo - he's a bit presumptuous, but whatever. Or compared to ME2, where someone like Thane who has perfect memory is ready to forget his dead wife and get it on with Shepard in 3 convos.

I'm not holding DA:O up as some sort of ideal. As I said, it took them 5 years and that was as good as it got.

 

[The Apothecarry]

Running a lesbian Duskblade in D&D has proven to be much more fun than I had anticipated. Maybe it's just my fantasies speaking for me? It would all come down to what the player is comfortable with dealing with. If such an option may be labeled as offensive, then perhaps it should be left out?

Realistically speaking, I'm a straight male, but in-game I like to experiment a little (anyone else go for Liara as a female Shepard? DING DING!)

 

[Asuka Soryu]

lol So true. Online I can be such a slut, in real life I'm very disinterested in love and sex.

Anyways, all I have to say to this is:

"You can't please them all, so only please the ones you want to."

 

[oplinger]

Well, I think that there are a lot of guys and girls here that have never been hit on by a person of the same gender. So if you select "straight", those people will just plain not hit on you, and you wouldn't notice at all.

I don't really know how gay people usually approach each other, but it makes sense to me that they have either judged the other's sexual preference by the way they behave themselves, or that they start by asking "Are you gay?" or something to that effect. I don't see a reason why this couldn't be incorporated into the game.

Well in my experiences of being hit on by guys, I can tell you one thing. ...They didn't feel me out for shit. >.> It happens just like everyone else, you get attracted, you become friends, one thing leads to another, you take the leap aaaaaaand rejected. game over. Try the next one...

From what I've gathered from..you know, talking to gay people, they don't walk down the street, or meet new people at wal-mart and have their gaydar beep uncontrollably. You usually have to find out through trial and error..or outright asking.

As someone who's somehow seemed gay...I really can say feeling people out doesn't work. And feeling them out may involve hitting on them anyway. ...either way the option seems to lose all meaning when you bring reality into it >_>

Unless you have a small monkey shaped memory core that holds all your thoughts and memories and gleefully dances whenever you're nearby and it tells everyone you're gay off camera. That could work I guess...

It has less to do with how this compares to real world interactions, and more to do with how I would say, DM a game. If I knew there were people in the game I was running who were made particularly uncomfortable by homo or bisexuality, then I wouldn't include it as an element of the game. Although this isn't true to the real world, it speaks more to making sure the game is an enjoyable experience for my players.

Bioware in this case would be the DM. They are in essence, trying to create an experience that is enjoyable for as many people as possible.

Yes, you can just say no to these characters. But you still have to say no. Some people don't want to have to say no when they are playing a game. It makes the game less enjoyable for them. I'm merely acknowledging those people and putting out an idea that I thought might solve the issue less controversially than having a "No homesexual" mode in the game.

It's essentially the same thing. But I'm coming at it from an RPG stand point where story and immersion are important. Choosing if you're gay or not makes it awkward on the character sheet, if it affects the game at all. Having an option to turn romances on and off might be better. Just eliminate those choices, that way it doesn't break immersion..or might break immersion more depending on who you ask. You can play that off as no one in the party is looking for a lover though and...

Okay, let's just say there's a few kinks, and while your suggestion is good, it just breaks a few things too. ...It's a step in the right direction though.

 

[conflictofinterests]

Meh, I like the role playing aspect of these sorts of rpgs, and a good part of who your character is is how and why they turn down propositions. You feel uncomfortable with someone hitting on your character and respond accordingly? You feel that much closer to your character, and who you're making them.

 

[Shock and Awe]

Thats actually a pretty damn good idea. Now all the straight guys wont have to be hit on by other male characters so much and the gay guys wont have to keep denying the female ones over and over.

 

[kuyo]

It wouldn't be RP if you didn't do stuff you don't normally. It's about experiencing stuff you wouldn't otherwise, so indulge like it's Halloween.

lol So true. Online I can be such a slut, in real life I'm very disinterested in love and sex.

Anyways, all I have to say to this is:

"You can't please them all, so only please the ones you want to."

I have a similar saying: "someone's always going to feel alienated, so may as well level the playing field and make everyone feel alienated by having the Queen of England do all the voice acting.

 

[TH3_D15HWA5H3R]

id nail anything, escpecially if an achievment is involved... wait are we talking games or real life... DAMMIT

 

[Meggiepants]

lol So true. Online I can be such a slut, in real life I'm very disinterested in love and sex.

Anyways, all I have to say to this is:

"You can't please them all, so only please the ones you want to."

To the last bit, that's essentially what the head writer said.

To the first bit, as someone who is in a committed relationship and has been for some time, I could tell you why I'm a slut in games. Those relationships are easy, it's all icing and no cake. In real life, you gotta mix the batter, set the oven right... so much work. But it is worth it.

It's essentially the same thing. But I'm coming at it from an RPG stand point where story and immersion are important. Choosing if you're gay or not makes it awkward on the character sheet, if it affects the game at all. Having an option to turn romances on and off might be better. Just eliminate those choices, that way it doesn't break immersion..or might break immersion more depending on who you ask. You can play that off as no one in the party is looking for a lover though and...

Okay, let's just say there's a few kinks, and while your suggestion is good, it just breaks a few things too. ...It's a step in the right direction though.

Fair enough. Thanks for the discussion. You have made me think about it a bit more, which is why I posted here first.

Thats actually a pretty damn good idea. Now all the straight guys wont have to be hit on by other male characters so much and the gay guys wont have to keep denying the female ones over and over.

I never really thought about it, but that would be another beneficial effect. Gaider actually kind of speaks to that a little bit when he talks about the fact that the majority often doesn't really think about how the way things are might make it uncomfortable for the minority. I suppose if you had a sexual preference choice, then it might make the game equally uncomfortable/comfortable for all, seeing as how you could stop the advances of whoever you like that way.

 

[The Madman]

That wasn't my experience. In fact, Alistair rebuffed my first attempt to tent him, said he wasn't ready yet. Embarrassingly, I've got Alistair down to an art - make fun if you will, but to me, he's adorable. It takes about seven convos to get him to approach me in a romantic manner. Compared to something like DA2 - where Anders claims he'll break my heart after one convo - he's a bit presumptuous, but whatever. Or compared to ME2, where someone like Thane who has perfect memory is ready to forget his dead wife and get it on with Shepard in 3 convos.

I'm not holding DA:O up as some sort of ideal. As I said, it took them 5 years and that was as good as it got.

Dunno, I think Baldur's Gate 2: Shadows of Amn did 'romance' best so far of Biowares games. The dialogue was well written, the characters interesting, and it took genuine time and effort with *gasp* legitimate issues popping up which can easily destroy the romance entirely. Aerie would leave the player in a heartbeat the instant she felt she was being taken advantage of, and Jaheira has allllllll sorts of emotional baggage that needs to be dealt with, and Viconia is seven sorts of twisted and evil! But that's good, that's what makes the 'romance' worth pursuing. Exposing new facets of a character which presumably you like or you wouldn't be trying to woo em. Still far from perfect, but it worked.

Compare that to all the recent Bioware games where even the characters who're supposed to be all screwed up, Jack or Morrigan for example, are all but throwing themselves at you and the only way you could possible 'fail' the romance is deliberate sabotage. Though to be fair I rather liked the two human romance story in the first Mass Effect. Ashley and Kaidan were well done, Liara however not so much considering she's yet another of those characters who threw themselves at the player after... hmm... two dialogue as I recall!

The only major problem with Baldur's Gate was a lack of options. Jaheira and Viconia were both interest, and Aerie is nice if you're into the whole 'wounded bird' thing. But that was it, with only one twit for women gamers who I personally have never been able to even tolerate having in my group. I've heard it's possible to absolutely ruin the guy if you play your cards right and that's neat, but I've never had the patience to make a female character and try.

 

[TheYellowCellPhone]

I'm so used to the dialogue trees of game like Fallout 3. If you want to hit on them, you can; if you don't there's another option for getting onto the important matters. I think that sexual preference should be done during the game, rather than it being predecided.

Sure, it can be awkward when being hit on by the sex you'd prefer not to, but it's not like you run around with a sign over your head saying "I'm straight/gay, don't hit on me if you're a boy/girl."

 

[Meggiepants]

That wasn't my experience. In fact, Alistair rebuffed my first attempt to tent him, said he wasn't ready yet. Embarrassingly, I've got Alistair down to an art - make fun if you will, but to me, he's adorable. It takes about seven convos to get him to approach me in a romantic manner. Compared to something like DA2 - where Anders claims he'll break my heart after one convo - he's a bit presumptuous, but whatever. Or compared to ME2, where someone like Thane who has perfect memory is ready to forget his dead wife and get it on with Shepard in 3 convos.

I'm not holding DA:O up as some sort of ideal. As I said, it took them 5 years and that was as good as it got.

Dunno, I think Baldur's Gate 2: Shadows of Amn did 'romance' best so far of Biowares games. The dialogue was well written, the characters interesting, and it took genuine time and effort with *gasp* legitimate issues popping up which can easily destroy the romance entirely. Aerie would leave the player in a heartbeat the instant she felt she was being taken advantage of, and Jaheira has allllllll sorts of emotional baggage that needs to be dealt with, and Viconia is seven sorts of twisted and evil! But that's good, that's what makes the 'romance' worth pursuing. Exposing new facets of a character which presumably you like or you wouldn't be trying to woo em. Still far from perfect, but it worked.

Compare that to all the recent Bioware games where even the characters who're supposed to be all screwed up, Jack or Morrigan for example, are all but throwing themselves at you and the only way you could possible 'fail' the romance is deliberate sabotage. Though to be fair I rather liked the two human romance story in the first Mass Effect. Ashley and Kaidan were well done, Liara however not so much considering she's yet another of those characters who threw themselves at the player after... hmm... two dialogue as I recall!

The only major problem with Baldur's Gate was a lack of options. Jaheira and Viconia were both interest, and Aerie is nice if you're into the whole 'wounded bird' thing. But that was it, with only one twit for women gamers who I personally have never been able to even tolerate having in my group. I've heard it's possible to absolutely ruin the guy if you play your cards right and that's neat, but I've never had the patience to make a female character and try.

Never played that, but I have heard it mentioned a few times with reference to the romances in it. I guess I should add that DA:O is the best of the ones I've played.

ME was good if you enjoyed Kaidan, which I did so that was fine. But as a woman, you kind of only get one choice. Liara I've always personally felt was for the guys more than any ladies who like ladies. I don't know why, but she just felt that way to me. DA:O at least has a couple of choices for each sex, so if you don't like A, you can pick B.

If steam has another Bioware sale, I might pick up the Baldur's Gate game to check it out.

 

[The Madman]

Never played that, but I have heard it mentioned a few times with reference to the romances in it. I guess I should add that DA:O is the best of the ones I've played.

ME was good if you enjoyed Kaidan, which I did so that was fine. But as a woman, you kind of only get one choice. Liara I've always personally felt was for the guys more than any ladies who like ladies. I don't know why, but she just felt that way to me. DA:O at least has a couple of choices for each sex, so if you don't like A, you can pick B.

If steam has another Bioware sale, I might pick up the Baldur's Gate game to check it out.

Steam doesn't carry the Baldur's Gate series actually. The best place to pick the BG series up would either be by buying the 4in1 box set re-release that's easily enough found from a variety of places or from GOG if you just want to buy it cheap online.

Spoiler: Dragon Age: Origins was supposed to be a spiritual successor to the BG series, so if you liked that you'll probably like BG

Whatever the case, if you do pick the series up let me know and I can recommend some mods to improve the experience and make first-impressions easier. Baldur's Gate 2 is generally agreed upon to be the highpoint of the series, but the first game isn't bad by any means and there are a couple amazing pieces of community work which update and improve the original so that it compares more favourably to its renowned sequel.

Personally I still consider the Baldur's Gate series overall to be my favourite rpg experience. Playing from the very start all the way to Throne of Bhall is something to be remembered, and the cast of characters you'll meet along the way unforgettable.

 

[mireko]

It kind of makes sense, but only if the developers expect your character to broadcast their sexuality at some point. In practice, I can't see what it would affect.

Wishful thinking on my part, but maybe if people like the 'Straight Male Gamer Demographic' guy keep seeing it in games they'll actually learn to deal with it

Also, regarding the romance system in general:

One of the crucial flaws in DA:O's romance system was the whole hate/love gauge on all characters that boosted whenever you gave them some small trinket. The weirdest part was that even if you gave them something they just barely accept, their approval would still increase, and eventually they'd fall in love with you.

I can't tell if that's bad design or the most cynical thing ever put in a game.

Even ME had the courtesy to hide that stat, and DA2 *kind of* replaced it with a similar but differently-functioning system. But I suppose if you're actually trying to manage a romance, whether it's in BG2 or Mass Effect, you're ultimately just trying to figure out a puzzle [small]('which answer will yield the most positive result?')[/small]. That might be why they're somewhat unsatisfying. If they would put a little unpredictability or chaos into the characters' personalities, it could work so much better.

[sub]Though I concede BG2 had a lot of unpredictability in Jaheira's romance.. to the point where it felt like the game was just trying to screw with you on purpose.[/sub]

 

[Zaik]

The only reason this would be really necessary is if they were going to have a character outright try to force themselves(before someone freaks out, I'm not saying rape, just aggressively pursue) on you at some point, and your input determined the gender of the character in question.