Poll: Video Games With More Than Four Dimensions?

aestu

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As most everyone knows, we live in a four-dimensional universe. The fourth dimension, time, is inaccessible to us because the time variable is elastic relative to the continual expansion of the universe and human consciousness moves along it.

A lesser-known scientific fact is that the number of dimensions in the universe is completely arbitrary. While ours appears to be a four-dimensional universe, there is evidence to support the belief that universes with more or fewer dimensions may be extant. It is even believed that at the subatomic level, the rules of existence change and there may be more than four dimensions in play.

These are very complex scientific concepts I don't pretend to even begin to understand; I merely know of them, in the same way that I have a general idea of the principles that make my computer work, but could never design one myself.

Very, very few people (on the order of one birth per tens of millions) have the intelligence and mental flexibility necessary to comprehend the paradoxes of quantum theory. Such individuals can only gain such capability if they are carefully cultivated: witness the life stories of people like Feynman or Einstein or Hawking.

Yet there are definite benefits to society to be had by gaining such transcendent knowledge. Advanced quantum theory could lead to advances as profound over our Info Age society, as Info Age society over pre-Info society. Quantum power plants the size of a thermos but with more output than a nuclear reactor. Neutronium alloys stronger than a steel bulkhead but thinner than a human hair. Superstring communicators capable of zero-latency connections over unlimited distances (and with no bandwidth cap, allowing AUS/NZ players to compete with everyone else - imo the most significant of these potential discoveries).

If you doubt the power of gamesmanship to drive new levels of arete in a society, bear witness to the amazing skill of Korean Starcraft gamers, or Brazilian soccer champs, or, of infinitely more historical significance, the leet skills of Thracian peltasts, British longbowmen, or Scythian mounted archers. In Scythian society, men were expected to be able to fire and reload a shortbow, with both hands, while riding bareback at full gallop and surrounded by men trying to kill them.

Go visit a Native American museum; observe their incredibly beautifully designed baskets, so strongly woven out of common reeds that they could retain water as well as a plastic bottle. Native American community had populations of only a few hundred at most, but the skill was so prized that several individuals in each mastered the skill, because of the honor it brought. Similarly consider the amazingly fine Japanese katana, whose quality has declined in proportion to the decline of the importance of the skill of crafting one.

From societies that value particular skills spring forth exceptional super-geniuses in that society's arete. Lysander. Michael Jordan. Robin Hood. Kasparov. Donald Trump. All geniuses in their respective fields, all the product of their respective society's values.

I submit that the prevalence of individuals capable of conceiving innovations in more than four dimensions could be greatly increased by producing a highly addictive video game that gives young children an unnatural inclination to think in more than four dimensions.

The game would take the form of a tactical RPG with a plot and gameplay similar to Disgaea. Whereas most tactical RPGs are strictly four-dimensional, however, this game would feature a variable number of dimensions depending on map. Additional dimensions would be displayed on the 2D screen via either the option to adjust the camera along more than two axes via key combinations, or by indicating changes in dimension by optical effects.

For example, an enemy close in the second, third, sixth and seventh dimensions, but faraway in the fifth and eighth, would appear spatially close, and be illuminated in bright green and blue, but appear shadowed and lacking in red chroma (green and blue representing dimensions six and seven, red and lumina representing dimensions five and eight).

In the same way that some very bright kids develop an unnatural skill at metagaming, this line of games would incline some very bright kids to develop unnatural skill at quantum thinking, with profound repercussions for society. The next generation could potentially claim many more quantum geniuses than any before, making possible unimaginable technological progress.

I would even propose a title and plot for the new game series:

"WRATH OF FEYNMAN"

Two high school students, Josh and Trisha, take an unneeded bathroom break from history class so they can switch all the boxers and panties in the locker rooms. As they wander the corridor, they see the spectre of the believed-to-be-deceased Dr Feynman, who gives them a creepy look before disappearing into a broom closet. Josh & Trisha enter the broom closet, only to find that not only is the good doctor nowhere to be seen, neither is the door. The broom closet seems to have no exit from the interior.

By turns, Dr Feynman reveals he isn't really dead - rather, he absconded from this continuum when he conceived that the four-dimensional nature of our universe is merely a human abstraction, and in fact, there are an infinitely great number of dimensions. Feynman learned to walk at an angle to the other dimensions, so that he could freely navigate them.

He now desires to mentor the very few youths with the necessary mental elasticity to do the same...so they can become his vanguard in his goal of imposing his scientific vision on not only the world, but the universe. Josh & Trisha, after being initially seduced by Feynman's offer of unpredecented knowledge and power, must now master quantum concepts and beat Feynman at his own game!

Players can play as Josh or Trisha (similar to Claude vs Rena from Star Ocean 2) and fight against the corrupted physics professor's misguided schemes. Players fight Feynman six times in the game, in ever-increasing numbers of dimensions, as Feynman-6, Feynman-8, Feynman-9, Feynman-10, Feynman-12, and finally Feynman-20. Weapons in the game are similar to those in any tactical RPG - melee weapons from daggers and fists, as well as ranged weapons including guns, bows, arrows, slings, etc, and also mathematical weapons capable of interacting directly with the dimensional abstractions - similar to magic or the FFT Math Mage.

Other bosses include historical figures enlisted by the transcendent Feynman (including Archimedes, who attacks with a 10-dimensional wrecking ball) and monsters of his own creation (a galactic "demon" and a genetically engineered human).

Overall, the "feel" of the game would be similar to Persona or any other Makai Tensei game. There would also be an online PvP mode, with a substantial purse for the winner in the 20-dimensional format.

I don't have the skills to create such a game. But, for the sake of mankind, I surely hope someone does.
 

Thebazilly

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I guess I'm just not one of the ultra-special few with the mental capacity to understand quantum physics, because this sounds stupid to me.
 

XMark

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I don't really understand how the extra dimensions come into play as described, other than as labels for things...

It's easy to imagine 3 dimensions (even on a 2D screen) since we live in 3D. It's easy to think of the 4th dimension as time. The 5th dimension can be easily imagined as alternate realities running in parallel to our own but unseen by us. But after the 5th dimension things get a whole lot more difficult to imagine.

One could say that Bioshock Infinite was a 5-dimensional game, since at many different points you travel between parallel realities.
 
Apr 8, 2010
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aestu said:
These are very complex scientific concepts I don't pretend to even begin to understand
You might want heed your own words a little bit more the next time you write something like this. Now please sit down and repeat after me *clears throat and raises finger*

Quantum Physics is not a free ride into "everything is possible"
Quantum Physics is not a free ride into "everything is possible"
Quantum Physics is not a free ride into "everything is possible"

...got this? Good.

Now to provide some more context to my patent display of annoyance,

aestu said:
A lesser-known scientific fact is that the number of dimensions in the universe is completely arbitrary.
I think the most apparent misunderstanding in your post lies in the concept of a dimension in physics or mathematics. In principle, a dimension is only a mathematical abstraction for a set of values. For instance in Statistical Physics you usually look at a number of particles of the order of N=6x10^23 (usually corresponding to just up to a hundred or so grams of material) - each of which possesses in the easiest case (which corresponds to an ideal gas like air for instance) six independent variables i.e. three for a position in space and three for its velocity in each direction meaning you work (and solve the system) in a 6xN-dimensional space - a dimension is, as such, an abstract concept and should not be confused with whatever bullshit sci-fi series #2049 decided to put in there.

It's nothing that should be seen as "really there" - it is first and foremost just a mathematical model. For instance, I'am not to eager to proclaim the usual viewpoint that the world is four dimensional. What one can show in special and general relativity is that through its makeup it proves very much advantageous to formulate the equations through four-dimensional vectors i.e. a set of four numbers - to ascribe a representation of reality to it is a whole other matter altogether. Especially when it comes to string-theory where I think your comment about higher dimensionality originates - it is, to my knowledge, untestable at this point and merely a mathematical curiosity. A very elegant curiosity, mind.

Very, very few people (on the order of one birth per tens of millions) have the intelligence and mental flexibility necessary to comprehend the paradoxes of quantum theory. Such individuals can only gain such capability if they are carefully cultivated: witness the life stories of people like Feynman or Einstein or Hawking. [...]

I submit that the prevalence of individuals capable of conceiving innovations in more than four dimensions could be greatly increased by producing a highly addictive video game that gives young children an unnatural inclination to think in more than four dimensions.[...]

I don't have the skills to create such a game. But, for the sake of mankind, I surely hope someone does.
Let me assure you: Quantum mechanics is quite easy to use - the mathematical background is easier than one makes it out to be from the mystification that topic usually invites. The problems only arise when you try to make sense of what the math and postulates (which justify themselves because they work) actually say - so it's not a matter of understanding than it is a matter of interpretation. And of the latter there are various candidates [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interpretations_of_quantum_mechanics] none of which can be readily ascertained nor in any practical way proves very useful - it's more a philosophical question than anything else. So presuming that people except for a "select few" don't understand it is myopic, to say the least - because, from the most narrow viewpoint, nobody does nor does it really matter.

Which brings me to the second aspect where I'd strongly disagree: the apparent social darwinist approach throughout. As argued, understanding "Quantum Physics" is either easier than you think or impossible and utterly irrelevant. There is no reason to posit that doing research in Quantum Physics somehow turns you into a Nietzschean Superhuman or that it is even desirable to need people to learn "Quantum thinking" - Quantum physics is not some strange spiritual stuff, it is a mathematical model to describe the behaviour of nature on a microscopic scale. Its not an ideology - it's a tool to do research and spawn applications from it. And except for people who do research in that area it is also utterly irrelevant for the layman. Or in other words:

Quantum Physics is not a free ride into "everything is possible"

Oh and also,

...Quantum power plants...Superstring communicators...
[Citation Needed]
 

Samantha Burt

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Jan 30, 2012
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Can I just say Miegakure and leave it there? No? Okay well go an research Miegakure, if you count time, it's five-dimensional, since it operates in four dimensions of space. There are also 4D+ rubik's cubes.
 

Loop Stricken

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Jun 17, 2009
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TL;DR

aestu said:
What do Americans value above all else?
Cheese?

Seriously though, your wall of text seems to have very little to do with your poll. Or games in general.
 

lacktheknack

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Jan 19, 2009
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aestu said:
Very, very few people (on the order of one birth per tens of millions) have the intelligence and mental flexibility necessary to comprehend the paradoxes of quantum theory.
...

Citation needed. Citation very, very needed.
 

aestu

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lacktheknack said:
aestu said:
Very, very few people (on the order of one birth per tens of millions) have the intelligence and mental flexibility necessary to comprehend the paradoxes of quantum theory.
...

Citation needed. Citation very, very needed.
IQ of avg quantum physicist / quantum genius
Nominal occurrence of said IQ in general population
 

lacktheknack

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aestu said:
lacktheknack said:
aestu said:
Very, very few people (on the order of one birth per tens of millions) have the intelligence and mental flexibility necessary to comprehend the paradoxes of quantum theory.
...

Citation needed. Citation very, very needed.
IQ of avg quantum physicist / quantum genius
Nominal occurrence of said IQ in general population
You mentioned Richard Feynman, right?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Feynman

IQ: 125. I have a higher IQ than that (if only marginally)

It doesn't matter, though... IQ, as a measurement of ability, capacity and learning potential, is worth less than dirt.
 

Hawk of Battle

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Feb 28, 2009
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I think the OP needs to go and play Achron. If you want 4d gameplay, there it is.

Alternatively download that free 4d maze game.
 

MarsProbe

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MHR said:
aestu said:
super-geniuses... Donald Trump
Sorry, you lost me.
I hear Trump is currently working on an 8-dimensional golf course. So there you go.

Anyway, this may just be feeble 3-dimensional human mind talking, but would anybody out there have the understanding to fathom even "just" a 4D game, let alone create one? I don't think I could even begin to think how dimensions 5 and up would manifest themselves in a videogame.

You know, I might just go and read Flatland again, given all this talk of dimensions...
 

shrekfan246

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May 26, 2011
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lacktheknack said:
aestu said:
Very, very few people (on the order of one birth per tens of millions) have the intelligence and mental flexibility necessary to comprehend the paradoxes of quantum theory.
...

Citation needed. Citation very, very needed.
You don't remember this guy's previous extremely inflammatory threads and posts? I mean, it's been a year, but the guy was everywhere when the feminism wars originally broke out.

OT: Where's the cliffnotes version of that OP? It was far too rambly and peppered with passive aggressive insults for me. You'd probably deem me too stupid to understand 4D+ gaming anyway, so I don't think my input really matters.
 

Phlakes

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aestu said:
Chromatic Aberration said:
The overall impression I get from what you write is that you feel intimidated by people who are more gifted by birth or breeding, so you try to talk down those who are better off in one respect or the other.
I can't even handle this much irony. There are certain kinds of people who turn these kinds of arguments personal, and none of them are in a place to call people out on things like that.
 

aestu

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lacktheknack said:
IQ: 125. I have a higher IQ than that (if only marginally)
So does that mean you are an underperformer relative to Feynman?
 

mitchell271

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Samantha Burt said:
Can I just say Miegakure and leave it there? No? Okay well go an research Miegakure, if you count time, it's five-dimensional, since it operates in four dimensions of space. There are also 4D+ rubik's cubes.
Damn ninjas, popping up in every forum! It's like we never see you coming... or is that the idea?

aestu said:
-urgently needed snip
OT: Miegakure is the answer to your question. A neat little experiment with 4D gaming/concepts but I challenge you to play through the entire thing without getting a headache.
 
Apr 8, 2010
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aestu said:
Yes admittedly I might have come off a bit harshly there. So apologies, it was not my intention to flame too much but to provide perspective to what you wrote,

Then again...

Just because you know Avogadro's number from Chem 101 and can say something that is provably extremely complex (quantum physics) is easy doesn't make it so. The fact that you think those things I described as being theoretically possible under current theory need a citation to so prove you don't even have an inkling of it.
Ummmmm....

<--- Quantum Physicist

In fact, I'm currently at page 71 of my Masters Thesis where I apply this [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Functional_renormalization_group] to that [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaynes-Cummings_model] using this [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Path_integral_formulation]. The example I explained you can find in any book on Statistical Mechanics - for instance you can find it in Kersons Huangs book [http://www.amazon.de/Introduction-Statistical-Physics-Second-Edition/dp/0748409424/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1375314574&sr=8-1&keywords=huang+statistical+physics] in section 12.7 - the reason for Avogadros number to appear is that Statistical Physics usually tries to find macroscopic properties where Avogadros number is the order you look at (not the actual number but its overall magnitude) which reflects itself in the application of the thermodynamic limit (i.e. send N to infinity because its large enough as it is) which then ultimately leads you to thermodynamic properties of your system.

The overall impression I get from what you write is that you feel intimidated by people who are more gifted by birth or breeding, so you try to talk down those who are better off in one respect or the other.

I think what really offended you about my post was the implication that people are improvable.
Okay then - I don't think I'll play this game with you, thank you very much. I'll just hit report and move on. Tadaa!
 

HavoK 09

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aestu said:
lacktheknack said:
IQ: 125. I have a higher IQ than that (if only marginally)
So does that mean you are an underperformer relative to Feynman?
would that also mean everyone would be considered an underperfomed when compared to an autistic child that happens to have an IQ higher than Einstein?

Just because you dont do as well on a specific subject it doesnt mean you are inferior.
 

Rabid Toilet

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aestu said:
Very, very few people (on the order of one birth per tens of millions) have the intelligence and mental flexibility necessary to comprehend the paradoxes of quantum theory. Such individuals can only gain such capability if they are carefully cultivated: witness the life stories of people like Feynman or Einstein or Hawking.
Huh.

I guess I should tell that to the hundreds of students at my college taking the Quantum Mechanics class.