Poll: Was It Wrong To Drop The Atomic Bombs In Japan?
- Thread starter Manatee Slayer
- Start date
That goes for me as well.FolkLikePanda said:
Countless Japanese civilians were killed in the years of firebombing preceding that. Countless japanese civilians would have been killed in an invasion too, especially if Stallin got involved, which you can be his power hungry ass was getting ready to do.
and also this:
reg42 said:
You win the war in front of you. And if you can do it today, you do it.
As Airforce General Curtis LeMay remarked,
"I suppose if I had lost the war, I would have been tried as a war criminal."
It was a horrific thing to do when the Japanese position was rapidly becoming untenable and was done
a) to save as many American lives as possible
b) to scare the Soviets
The Allies won and therefore their actions were made "right". Imagine if the Nazis had won? The Holocaust would just be the Final Solution; an unfortunate necessity in order to preserve and advance the Aryan race.
(I'm not implying that the Americans were like the Nazis, obviously, I'm just noting that the victor writes the history and gains retroactive justification)
In my opinion, it should not have been done, but it is easy to look back on it now and judge the American government when in reality all they wanted was to end the war as quickly as possible.
"I suppose if I had lost the war, I would have been tried as a war criminal."
It was a horrific thing to do when the Japanese position was rapidly becoming untenable and was done
a) to save as many American lives as possible
b) to scare the Soviets
The Allies won and therefore their actions were made "right". Imagine if the Nazis had won? The Holocaust would just be the Final Solution; an unfortunate necessity in order to preserve and advance the Aryan race.
(I'm not implying that the Americans were like the Nazis, obviously, I'm just noting that the victor writes the history and gains retroactive justification)
In my opinion, it should not have been done, but it is easy to look back on it now and judge the American government when in reality all they wanted was to end the war as quickly as possible.
In a sense though, Japan has been rewriting history since the war. They don't mention their war atrocities in schools.
I have to echo many previous sentiments here and say the first was perhaps necessary at the time. But we have to remember that we have had over 60 years of observation of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, so it's very easy to make a call about the morality of it all.
In my humble opinion, every nation involved in the war performed it's fair share of unmoral deeds. But now we know the damage, both short and long term, caused by nuclear weapons, most countries will try and prevent a 3rd nuke ever going off.
Also arguments such as 'they weren't going to surrender' and 'every man, woman and child were trained to kill US soldiers' aren't valid. None of us were there, the internet, no matter how nice and shiny, is full of shit. So trying to differentiate between propaganda and actual historical evidence becomes difficult. I'm not saying those points aren't true, I'm just saying we can't be 100% sure. After all, history is written by the victors.
In my humble opinion, every nation involved in the war performed it's fair share of unmoral deeds. But now we know the damage, both short and long term, caused by nuclear weapons, most countries will try and prevent a 3rd nuke ever going off.
Also arguments such as 'they weren't going to surrender' and 'every man, woman and child were trained to kill US soldiers' aren't valid. None of us were there, the internet, no matter how nice and shiny, is full of shit. So trying to differentiate between propaganda and actual historical evidence becomes difficult. I'm not saying those points aren't true, I'm just saying we can't be 100% sure. After all, history is written by the victors.
It was a good thing, if America didn't do it, it would cost time, money and manpower that Europe, China couldn't provide. Besides Japan was already at the part where it lost its sanity doing kamakazis and using balloon mines. Besides even if America occupied Japan, although killing civilians is wrong, they'd probably have to deal with some dirty insurgency.
Hey, just to show Japan's strict uncare for human life.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unit_731
This is just to show how Japan went out of control and was a fanatical country absorbed in their own gains.
BUT!
People need to also know that Modern Japan does not reflect this WW2 Japan. There were massive culture and ethic clashes between East and West.
Yes it is a massacre and it is horrible and nothing can excuse the loss of life but think of what the alternative would have been. Millions of USA lives lost, almost all of Japan eradicated from the planet. Without the shock and awe of these weapons, far worse things could have come around. Like a few posters have said, Japan was fanatical to its cause and would never give up. They told their people that all foreigners were evil and would rape and murder them.
War does horrible things to countries, people, and the world in general. If we should take anything from this entire Forum Post it is the lessons we have learned and the facts gained!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unit_731
This is just to show how Japan went out of control and was a fanatical country absorbed in their own gains.
BUT!
People need to also know that Modern Japan does not reflect this WW2 Japan. There were massive culture and ethic clashes between East and West.
Yes it is a massacre and it is horrible and nothing can excuse the loss of life but think of what the alternative would have been. Millions of USA lives lost, almost all of Japan eradicated from the planet. Without the shock and awe of these weapons, far worse things could have come around. Like a few posters have said, Japan was fanatical to its cause and would never give up. They told their people that all foreigners were evil and would rape and murder them.
War does horrible things to countries, people, and the world in general. If we should take anything from this entire Forum Post it is the lessons we have learned and the facts gained!
I don't see how anyone can say we shouldn't have done so and so when you weren't even there, and because you are 19, your parents probably weren't alive at the time either.derelix said:
My parents and other relatives were around during WW2 and they told me this was not a light decision, but everyone they knew agreed with it.
I would love to know how things would have turned out if they decided not to bomb Japan.
Ok, well... as for the first point, why would an island nation have no navy? (I don't know the facts of this one, which is why I'm asking)Manatee Slayer said:
For the second, yes, many high ranking officials wanted to give up. Only one's opinion mattered (Hirohito)
And as for the third, I think he meant, bombs from planes, like the bombing Germany did on London. I haven't read his book though, so I'm not sure.
Please correct me if I'm wrong though
. Oh, but I say it was necessary, though wrong.
I will endeavor to do my best. Unfortunately I won't be able to do additional research on this at the moment, so I'll have to "shoot from the hip".Manatee Slayer said:
Arguably this was a strategic decision, the usually cited argument is fears of Soviet expansion, and intending to send a message to Russia that America had a doomsday weapon.Manatee Slayer said:
While the deterioration of the Naval and Air-Forces through the course of the war is somewhat well documented. The perpetuation of ground forces was a problem. Robert McNamara estimated that had ground forces been committed the American casualties would have been staggering.Manatee Slayer said:
You're actually missing something critical here. A large part of the deterioration of the Japanese war machine from 1941 - 1945 was due to the fact that prior to 1941, their primary source of steel was American companies. After December 7th, we became the leading exporter of lead into the Japanese.Manatee Slayer said:
Now, in all honesty, the understanding is, that the Japanese military cadre were preparing to arm the population with sharpened wooden poles and ordering them to fight to the last.
HAHAManatee Slayer said:
Okay, I'm sorry. Seriously? I know you said you didn't do much research, but Russia LOST the Russo-Japanese war in 1906. Making Russia the first European power to lose a war against an Asiatic state. And, while the Russians were turning around after having just curb stomped the Germans, the Japanese had no reason to really fear a Russian invasion. The Russians were involved for about five days before the end of the war (raw recollection).
While there was some disagreement over the use of the bombs within allied command, to say "many high ranking officials" is a weasel phrase.Manatee Slayer said:
Churchill was a nut. Plain and simple. His encore for WWII was an attempted invasion of Russia. This is why he was ousted before Yalta.Manatee Slayer said:
No. It wasn't. But, you're in the right vein. America had a weapon that could (quite literally) atomize entire cities. The fear of this was the factor that caused them to move from the Japanese ideal of noble suicide, to the unthinkable anathema of surrender.Manatee Slayer said:
Yeah... I'm sorry, the points are about as historically accurate as Abe Lincoln riding a Dinosaur at the battle of Marathon.Manatee Slayer said:
EDIT: Regarding your pros and cons list, that's actually a much better list than the one you provide.Manatee Slayer said:
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.191294-Poll-Was-It-Wrong-To-Drop-The-Atomic-Bombs-In-Japan?page=22#6003601Jayjay34 said:Ok, well... as for the first point, why would an island nation have no navy? (I don't know the facts of this one, which is why I'm asking)
For the second, yes, many high ranking officials wanted to give up. Only one's opinion mattered (Hirohito)
And as for the third, I think he meant, bombs from planes, like the bombing Germany did on London. I haven't read his book though, so I'm not sure.
Please correct me if I'm wrong though
here's a link to what i hope will add some knowledge to people.
Well they lost a hell of a lot of their naval and air forces during Pearl Harbor, also they had taken a bit of a beating between Pearl Harbor and the dropping of Fat Man, so that should answer your questionJayjay34 said:
Good post, except, my understanding was the German research was stopped after the convoy moving heavy water through... god, I think it was Norway was hit. As for a Japanese nuclear program... I've literally never heard anything about that. And I've heard some pretty bizarre shit in regards to WWII.myogaman said:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_nuclear_weapon_programStarke said:
"The separator project came to an end two months later when the building housing it was destroyed in a fire caused by an air raid on Tokyo." -Wikipedia
If we can agree Wikipedia is a reliable source.
I learned this from some Nuclear Weapons show on Discovery or Nation Geographic or something. It also talked about China giving North Korea nuclear weapons. It was mostly talking about the "exclusive club of nuclear arms."